ON3P SKIS Discussion

I’m looking for some input from the mag collective on Woodsman 116 vs BGs. I’ve recently moved to WA and find my current powder ski to be lacking in these conditions - Fischer ranger 108 ti - 202 cm. It feels like it takes too much effort to turn in the heavier powder I experienced at Crystal.

So, I’ve read all about how the BGs are the best choice for most of the conditions out here. However, the longest size is tough to come by used for a guy my size - 6’6, 205 lbs. I haven’t been able to try either of them out, so I’m hesitant to buy new. I do have a lead on some used Woodsman’s 116 in 192 and am hoping to hear from those that have skied both. Is the difference between the two worth the used vs new price difference?

I’ve skied in CO/UT powder and my favorite ski is the 2012 Volkl Gotama 193 for comparison sake. I also have a pair of Volkl Kendos 2016 184 that I love for low tide days and plan to keep. I hope to keep it to 2 ski quiver for skiing mostly at Crystal. TIA!


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New ski day!

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Originally Posted by diggins1712

I’m looking for some input from the mag collective on Woodsman 116 vs BGs. I’ve recently moved to WA and find my current powder ski to be lacking in these conditions - Fischer ranger 108 ti - 202 cm. It feels like it takes too much effort to turn in the heavier powder I experienced at Crystal.

So, I’ve read all about how the BGs are the best choice for most of the conditions out here. However, the longest size is tough to come by used for a guy my size - 6’6, 205 lbs. I haven’t been able to try either of them out, so I’m hesitant to buy new. I do have a lead on some used Woodsman’s 116 in 192 and am hoping to hear from those that have skied both. Is the difference between the two worth the used vs new price difference?

I’ve skied in CO/UT powder and my favorite ski is the 2012 Volkl Gotama 193 for comparison sake. I also have a pair of Volkl Kendos 2016 184 that I love for low tide days and plan to keep. I hope to keep it to 2 ski quiver for skiing mostly at Crystal. TIA!


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I'd hold out for used 189/193 BG or wait for 2022. Only a few weeks of storms left, so not like it will be a big factor for this season. There will be a 190+ stock BG option next year (so you don't have to go custom a la SuperGoat). BG is a better PNW powder ski than the Woodsman 116 - which is a bit more versatile (aka easier to ski if you will see notable amounts of hard snow) but you have that covered in the Ranger. BG was literally (and I mean literally) designed with Crystal in mind and balance point more in line with what you are on now.

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Originally Posted by iggyskier

I'd hold out for used 189/193 BG or wait for 2022. Only a few weeks of storms left, so not like it will be a big factor for this season. There will be a 190+ stock BG option next year (so you don't have to go custom a la SuperGoat). BG is a better PNW powder ski than the Woodsman 116 - which is a bit more versatile (aka easier to ski if you will see notable amounts of hard snow) but you have that covered in the Ranger. BG was literally (and I mean literally) designed with Crystal in mind and balance point more in line with what you are on now.

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As in a revision of the size range, or just adding something longer in additon to the current range?


Anyhow, in other news, I took my 6 (7?) years old Wren 102s into a shop to have them freshen the edges. The skis haven't seen a stone in their lifetime, has always been a bit underwhelming on hard-->icy snow, and the recent year has turned downright terrifying on hard snow.

The guys in the shop were so stoked on the build quality (in combination with being bored with C19 slow days) that they went all in on the skis. The result is that the Wrens now has excellent grip and predictability, seamlessly transitioning between strong carves and mellow slarves, and between piles of slush and patches of ice. New skis for the price of a tune.

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Originally Posted by iggyskier

I'd hold out for used 189/193 BG or wait for 2022. Only a few weeks of storms left, so not like it will be a big factor for this season. There will be a 190+ stock BG option next year (so you don't have to go custom a la SuperGoat). BG is a better PNW powder ski than the Woodsman 116 - which is a bit more versatile (aka easier to ski if you will see notable amounts of hard snow) but you have that covered in the Ranger. BG was literally (and I mean literally) designed with Crystal in mind and balance point more in line with what you are on now.

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Thanks for the feedback! I will hold out for BG’s.


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Originally Posted by iggyskier

There will be a 190+ stock BG option next year (so you don't have to go custom a la SuperGoat).

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And there was rejoicing by Mags throughout the kingdom that day.

Yea what Iggy said. He’s probably too modest to say it but a western WA 2 ski quiver; STARTS with BGs then whatever floats the rest of your boat.

Mounting up 108 Jeffery’s. I’m gonna use either pivots or look SPX. Pivot brakes would obviously be 115s. Have people used 100 or 120 SPX/Axial 3 brakes?




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100 pivot brakes will work too

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Originally Posted by diggins1712

I’m looking for some input from the mag collective on Woodsman 116 vs BGs. I’ve recently moved to WA and find my current powder ski to be lacking in these conditions - Fischer ranger 108 ti - 202 cm. It feels like it takes too much effort to turn in the heavier powder I experienced at Crystal.

So, I’ve read all about how the BGs are the best choice for most of the conditions out here. However, the longest size is tough to come by used for a guy my size - 6’6, 205 lbs. I haven’t been able to try either of them out, so I’m hesitant to buy new. I do have a lead on some used Woodsman’s 116 in 192 and am hoping to hear from those that have skied both. Is the difference between the two worth the used vs new price difference?

I’ve skied in CO/UT powder and my favorite ski is the 2012 Volkl Gotama 193 for comparison sake. I also have a pair of Volkl Kendos 2016 184 that I love for low tide days and plan to keep. I hope to keep it to 2 ski quiver for skiing mostly at Crystal. TIA!


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I have both. I significantly prefer the BG in deep snow and anything variable. I have actually come to prefer the BGs in firmer snow as well (I think a lot of that has to do with the mount point). In fact I prefer the BGs so much more that I didn't for see using the Woodsman much so I remounted the bindings for one of my sons boots and moved them on. Lucky him!

I love my BGs at Crystal, that's awesome a 190+ is coming out next season

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Originally Posted by iggyskier

I'd hold out for used 189/193 BG or wait for 2022. Only a few weeks of storms left, so not like it will be a big factor for this season. There will be a 190+ stock BG option next year (so you don't have to go custom a la SuperGoat). BG is a better PNW powder ski than the Woodsman 116 - which is a bit more versatile (aka easier to ski if you will see notable amounts of hard snow) but you have that covered in the Ranger. BG was literally (and I mean literally) designed with Crystal in mind and balance point more in line with what you are on now.

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That's rad! I don't want/need an SG, but for reeeally deep touring the 189 can be a bit short.

But most importantly, If you released a 186cm of your 2014 BG I would give you all my money. Mine are still going strong, but starting to get a little long in the tooth.... Those skis literally changed what skiing is for me they are so fucking good

Long shot, but if anyone's looking to rehome a 187 Woodsman 108 tour, let me know. I stupidly missed the last pair when the spring sale started.

Skied my Jeffrey 108’s in a surprise spring pow day at Timberline today. They said it was 3” but was really more like 7+”... The 108’s float remarkably well, didn’t feel much different than my Caylor’s, which are much wider. The tails released really predictably in deeper loose snow and I had no problems making quick changes in direction or shutting down speed. Such a great ski and so much fun to ride.

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Originally Posted by MHSP1497

Skied my Jeffrey 108’s in a surprise spring pow day at Timberline today. They said it was 3” but was really more like 7+”... The 108’s float remarkably well, didn’t feel much different than my Caylor’s, which are much wider. The tails released really predictably in deeper loose snow and I had no problems making quick changes in direction or shutting down speed. Such a great ski and so much fun to ride.

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I have put most days on my J108's this year and more times than not have took my BG's back to the car in favor of them. And now I'm mad I didn't skip out of work today.

Hopefully the long range forecast delivers next week and I can get out on my new Jeffery's.

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Originally Posted by auvgeek

Long shot, but if anyone's looking to rehome a 187 Woodsman 108 tour, let me know. I stupidly missed the last pair when the spring sale started.

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No skis for you, but will share that I've been skiing woodsman tours for the last couple of months and they are approaching praxis bc status for me, which is kind of the pinnacle for mid-size do everything touring skis for me. I could get rid of my fatter and narrower touring skis (but I prolly won't).

I kinda wish I woulda gone for the woodsman tours over the billy goat tours, I got caught up in all the hype on here about the bg108ts when I'm not that hard a charger.

Everyone needs a SG. They just don’t know it. So easy to ski


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Originally Posted by eSock

I kinda wish I woulda gone for the woodsman tours over the billy goat tours, I got caught up in all the hype on here about the bg108ts when I'm not that hard a charger.

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Out of curiosity, why? What do the BGs do/not do that Woodsmans would/would not? I would expect the woods to be better on firm, but that isn’t the conditions that skis of this width should be seeking anyhow. A narrower woods for spring/big days I can certainly see, but I’m assuming you’re referencing Woods 108s vs BGT 108?

great question I'm still trying to work out. It may be the case I just haven't gotten them in true touring conditions since most of my ventures out have been dawn patrols at my local ski hill, but they just feel very unwieldy there and seem to want more downhill/speed than I can offer when I'm just out meandering around with friends. Seems like the woods would be better suited for that (and still be fun on real tours).

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Originally Posted by eSock

great question I'm still trying to work out. It may be the case I just haven't gotten them in true touring conditions since most of my ventures out have been dawn patrols at my local ski hill, but they just feel very unwieldy there and seem to want more downhill/speed than I can offer when I'm just out meandering around with friends. Seems like the woods would be better suited for that (and still be fun on real tours).

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Interesting that's sort of the opposite of my experience on them. I love how I don't have to think about what sort of turn I have to do or whether I'm going too fast, they just do what I want and can be shut down at any time. Granted I have only been taking them out for fresh snow and it's probably a different story on hardpack. I have a 0g 95 for when the goats aren't really appropriate and they aren't nearly as effortless.

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Not my deal, but these were just posted on Seattle OfferUp. 184 BGs w/Marker Griffon $500

https://offerup.co/s872utsj4eb

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Originally Posted by Reformed

I would expect the woods to be better on firm, but that isn’t the conditions that skis of this width should be seeking anyhow. A narrower woods for spring/big days I can certainly see, but I’m assuming you’re referencing Woods 108s vs BGT 108?

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Hard disagree. A 108 underfoot touring ski is the staple of my touring quiver. IMHO, a 105-110 is a really excellent width when you're seeking pow but might get some combination of icy/firm entrances, hot pow, refrozen crud, bottomless mank, etc.

So I expect a 108 underfoot touring ski to do it all, and well. That's why I personally haven't been stoked on a the "skinny Goat" since it's inception many years ago -- it's a pow-ski shape in a do-it-all width. However, I can understand having two touring skis of the same width, e.g., Blizzard ZG108 (minimal taper, minimal rocker) and also BGT 108. But I think I'd rather take a Woodsman 108 Tour for 90% of the days. And getting one is my first quiver priority, but I haven't skied it yet so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

I think my ideal touring quiver (working on it next season) will be: 180 Blizz ZG 105 with SSL (for especially long days) and 187 Woodsman 108 Tour with Trab Titan Vario.2 (for most days). Then I might add a 50/50 option in the 186/191 Jeffrey 116 with Tecton and/or 189 BG with Tecton. Problem is, the 189 BG 50/50 would be ideal for taking big terrain at high speed, and the Jeffrey 116 would be amazing for pow jibbing. So really, I need both...

Anyway, just my $0.02.

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Originally Posted by iggyskier

There will be a 190+ stock BG option next year

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Huh, you don’t say...

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Originally Posted by auvgeek

Hard disagree. A 108 underfoot touring ski is the staple of my touring quiver. IMHO, a 105-110 is a really excellent width when you're seeking pow but might get some combination of icy/firm entrances, hot pow, refrozen crud, bottomless mank, etc.

So I expect a 108 underfoot touring ski to do it all, and well. That's why I personally haven't been stoked on a the "skinny Goat" since it's inception many years ago -- it's a pow-ski shape in a do-it-all width. However, I can understand having two touring skis of the same width, e.g., Blizzard ZG108 (minimal taper, minimal rocker) and also BGT 108. But I think I'd rather take a Woodsman 108 Tour for 90% of the days. And getting one is my first quiver priority, but I haven't skied it yet so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

I think my ideal touring quiver (working on it next season) will be: 180 Blizz ZG 105 with SSL (for especially long days) and 187 Woodsman 108 Tour with Trab Titan Vario.2 (for most days). Then I might add a 50/50 option in the 186/191 Jeffrey 116 with Tecton and/or 189 BG with Tecton. Problem is, the 189 BG 50/50 would be ideal for taking big terrain at high speed, and the Jeffrey 116 would be amazing for pow jibbing. So really, I need both...

Anyway, just my $0.02.

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Another 2 cents... I'd argue that the RES shape handles zip crusts and all sorts of BC funk so predictably that it makes the 108 width BG a pretty awesome all-around touring ski, not just a pow shape.

Also stoked on the length updates and look forward to learning about any other developments.