4FRNT Renegade ~ Hand built in SLC.

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Originally Posted by Gustavar

I’m looking for an all-mountain ski to compliment my 191 Renegades. I currently ski a 184 Black Crows Corvus, but ever since I got my Rens last year they’ve made me aware of just how much fun a ski can be, and the Corvuses just aren’t clicking for me like they used to

I’m hoping to find something that matches what I love about the Rens: nimble, intuitive, can still carry speed on a runout and are super supportive landing airs, but that is more versatile for my non-pow days.

I’m looking at the 4Frnt Devastators, I think they check the more fun and nimble boxes, my only concern is whether they’ll feel too soft for those harder days at Whistler

So Renegade owners, what should I ski when it’s truly impractical to pull out the Rens?

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I have a 188 Corvus for exactly what you describe, and I really like them for that. I did not get along with the 193, and haven’t ridden the 184. I also didn’t like them at recommended, but back a couple cm.

Feels like 191 ren to 184 Corvus might be a bigger adjustment? Otherwise I don’t have any real ideas, but I did run through a number of skis in that slot before finding and being happy with the 188 Corvus. Rossi Sender Free 110 has piqued my interest, though. Salomon QST 106 too. Haven’t had a chance to get on either, and if I replaced the 188 Corvus today it’d be with another 188 Corvus.

And yeah, the heritage lab thing seems cool but a bit fevered at this point. Not unlike any other ski that has a hype machine thread on here (like Ren and Corvus). Still watching closely and would have pulled the trigger on a pair of FR110 if I didn’t have so much else going on right now.

Heritage Labs FR110 looks killer but sold out in 186 which I think is what I’d lean towards over the 192. I’m 5’11 and 155lb so not a huge guy for driving bigger skis

I’ve loved my Corvus but I think the flat stiff tail is not a great match for my generally quick and nimble ski style. I get them around no problem but it’s less intuitive and more strong and deliberate skiing (but they’re a riot when I’m skiing more fall line)

I’m intrigued by the ravens but I’d worry they’re a bit touring focussed for an inbounds whistler dd

Might need to do some demo-ing here to narrow in on a vibe of ski. Dynastar M-Free 108 also seems interesting as something more playful than the Corvus, or the Wildcat 108

Still leaning Devs though if anyone has opinions on them

If you don’t think the Raven will be enough ski for a daily driver at Whistler you might look at the Prior Husume. I own both, the extra camber and weight of the Husume is nice but they’re still maneuverable and fun. Bonus is that’s where they were designed for. Personally I don’t think the 190 Raven is lacking anything against the 188 Husume


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I ski 184 Ravens inbounds at Whistler. A lot. They’re really good.

New 184 wolf Rens delivered yesterday. Rocking four pairs of rockered skis in the this year’s quiver.

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FYI….

If you order this year’s Renegades without the 4-lock skins….they ship you Rens with the Hoji hole.

Talked to 4FRNT and they confirmed this is the case. All Rens have the hole in the tail this year.

Same for the Ravens.

Apparently this years Hojis come both ways (with hole and without).

I bot my Rens without skins as I planned to use them as an inbounds pow skis.

I did ask and 4FRNT said I could buy some 4-lock skis for my Rens.

First world problem and just an FYI. But weird…and not clear on the website.

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Originally Posted by Gustavar

I’m looking for an all-mountain ski to compliment my 191 Renegades. I currently ski a 184 Black Crows Corvus, but ever since I got my Rens last year they’ve made me aware of just how much fun a ski can be, and the Corvuses just aren’t clicking for me like they used to

I’m hoping to find something that matches what I love about the Rens: nimble, intuitive, can still carry speed on a runout and are super supportive landing airs, but that is more versatile for my non-pow days.

I’m looking at the 4Frnt Devastators, I think they check the more fun and nimble boxes, my only concern is whether they’ll feel too soft for those harder days at Whistler

So Renegade owners, what should I ski when it’s truly impractical to pull out the Rens?

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IMHO devs are excellent compliments to ren until the snow becomes ice; then they suck. Drvs still do pretty well in pow but obviously not Ren well.

Devs are incredibly nimble, intuitive, surfy, and still ski chop, especially lower density chop, very well. They are terrible in icy conditions.



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Thanks for the thoughts y’all

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Originally Posted by skinipenem

IMHO devs are excellent compliments to ren until the snow becomes ice; then they suck. Drvs still do pretty well in pow but obviously not Ren well.

Devs are incredibly nimble, intuitive, surfy, and still ski chop, especially lower density chop, very well. They are terrible in icy conditions.



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That’s really good to know! Sounds like pretty much what I’m looking for…

When you say ice conditions, do you mean real east coast boilerplate, or the kind of firmed up groomers Whistler/western skiers call ice that is still edgable?

I’m an ex racer and like to carve, but I’m okay if I can’t really rip on boilerplate as we very rarely get it out here, mostly groomer days are pretty edgable always

IMO boiler plate is a hard no on devs, firmed up groomers not fun.

Anyone find themselves in between 184s and 191s for touring on rens and have advice? Can’t make up my mind. 191 would be a no brainer with alpine bindings but not sure I’ll want that on skin tracks. 5’11 180lbs for reference and I like to drive my tips.

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Originally Posted by jski171

Anyone find themselves in between 184s and 191s for touring on rens and have advice? Can’t make up my mind. 191 would be a no brainer with alpine bindings but not sure I’ll want that on skin tracks. 5’11 180lbs for reference and I like to drive my tips.

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Short skis suck.

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Originally Posted by jski171

Anyone find themselves in between 184s and 191s for touring on rens and have advice? Can’t make up my mind. 191 would be a no brainer with alpine bindings but not sure I’ll want that on skin tracks. 5’11 180lbs for reference and I like to drive my tips.

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191s I have 196s


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Originally Posted by jski171

Anyone find themselves in between 184s and 191s for touring on rens and have advice? Can’t make up my mind. 191 would be a no brainer with alpine bindings but not sure I’ll want that on skin tracks. 5’11 180lbs for reference and I like to drive my tips.

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Up b to you...

I have both 184 and 191. I'm 5^9" and would ideally have 187 or so. I don't get to ski them often since I live in the ice coast now :( so I would likely ski and like the 191 more of I loved somewhere with more snow and had more time. My guess is 191 for you.

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Originally Posted by Gustavar

Thanks for the thoughts y’all



That’s really good to know! Sounds like pretty much what I’m looking for…

When you say ice conditions, do you mean real east coast boilerplate, or the kind of firmed up groomers Whistler/western skiers call ice that is still edgable?

I’m an ex racer and like to carve, but I’m okay if I can’t really rip on boilerplate as we very rarely get it out here, mostly groomer days are pretty edgable always

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Boiler plate is a hard no. Unless you want to die. The contact patch is very short. The skis don't hookup until they have significant edge angle. Think dhf front tire no man's land secondary to lack of intermediate knobs.

West coast 'icy' firm is doable but certainly not ideal. For example, groomed edgeable is good to go, but more firm not so great.

Firm but easily edgeable is fine, but there are definitely better skis for firm. Like a cambered ski ;)

Another reference point:

Living in Utah I was happy with inbounds quiver of ren 196 and dev 184. I wasn't a great skier.

Living in Tahoe/NM I added bonafide because of the more than occasionally very firm snow with some ice. I wasn't a terrible skier.

Living in the northeast I added gs, SL, and faction ct 1.0 because of the frickin ice. I almost never ski the rens or devs in the northeast unless there is a dump or the rare day that prior dump hasn't resulted in patches of uncovered fucked ice.

Biggest complaint about the devs was the 184s ski short, but the 191s were destructive heavy and large. Unsure if sizing has changed?

I left other skis in the quiver out of the discussion as they aren't as relevant to your question.

Hope that helps.



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Thanks for the detailed reply!

From what I’ve read it sounds like the new (2021) devs have been updated to have a less extreme rocker and thus much longer contact patch, that’s made for a much improved groomer performance. They’re a bit softer than in the past and come in a 186 now

Thinking I might just need to try them and see if I’m okay with the level of firm performance, as it might be worth the sacrifice for my more frequent off-piste skiing

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Originally Posted by Gustavar

Thanks for the detailed reply!

From what I’ve read it sounds like the new (2021) devs have been updated to have a less extreme rocker and thus much longer contact patch, that’s made for a much improved groomer performance. They’re a bit softer than in the past and come in a 186 now

Thinking I might just need to try them and see if I’m okay with the level of firm performance, as it might be worth the sacrifice for my more frequent off-piste skiing

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Not sure softer is better for those skis. I'll be interested to hear how they ski.

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Mind boggling why they lightened the Devs when the hoji line is the bc line up. A sub 2000 gr charger? This was done a few years back tho, so old news

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Originally Posted by tang

Mind boggling why they lightened the Devs when the hoji line is the bc line up. A sub 2000 gr charger? This was done a few years back tho, so old news

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Cause the masses love light skis [emoji90]


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Originally Posted by kc_7777

FYI….

If you order this year’s Renegades without the 4-lock skins….they ship you Rens with the Hoji hole.

Talked to 4FRNT and they confirmed this is the case. All Rens have the hole in the tail this year.

Same for the Ravens.

Apparently this years Hojis come both ways (with hole and without).

I bot my Rens without skins as I planned to use them as an inbounds pow skis.

I did ask and 4FRNT said I could buy some 4-lock skis for my Rens.

First world problem and just an FYI. But weird…and not clear on the website.

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That's pretty dope!

Anyone that did that who is not planning on touring interested in hooking me up with a pair of 4-lock skins for my Rens?
I think I need the 184s, since I'd be doing this on an older pair of 186s.

Hmmm

Note sure it’s that dope?

If you paid less for the non-skin Renegade version like I did, you get shipped renegades with the Hoji hole. But no skins.

I was gonna put STHs on my Rens.

May go Duke PTs and buy some skins now. Just cause the damn hole is there. And I have some Duke PTs.

The hole makes no difference when skiing. But it’s there. And people will be like WTF did you put alpine binders on a ski with a Hoji hole?

Super first world problem I know.

I guess it’s nice that 4FRNT offered to sell me some skins after the fact when I questioned them. But it’s not that dope.

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Haven't skied a pair Renegades since the original wood sidewall ones. (Stiff, planky, but fun where I could let them run, I thought.)

How do the latest ones compare to Protests?

There's no Devestator thread, but I'm thinking all the real ones are subscribed to this one.

4frnt is dropping 40 pairs of a 194 Devestator tomorrow @ 11am MST. I got all excited thinking it was the old layup, specs appear to be a stretched version of the current layup:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...5453e738d7.jpg

yup. what's the ski equivalent of "there's not replacement for displacement?"

"you can't replace the absolute boat anchors my old 194cms are" doesn't quite roll off the tongue.

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Originally Posted by Brasso

yup. what's the ski equivalent of "there's not replacement for displacement?"

"you can't replace the absolute boat anchors my old 194cms are" doesn't quite roll off the tongue.

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Don't replace em! but i think new dev in 194 will be a pretty killer weapon around the resort too

Family pic. For science.

All three 4FRNTs are 184cm and are mounted at recommended mount point (eg dimple on ski).

Ski strap is tightened at mount point in second pic.

Attachment 473356

Attachment 473357

Attachment 473358

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Very nice, thanks for the pics. Rocker profiles all look so dialed. The ren profile has changed so much since v1--I'd love to try the latest. The OG ren doesn't have a ton of tip surface area (just 135mm width at the tip, for comparison OG dev tips are 136mm) and has less tip splay. I bet that new rocker profile works a lot better in deep snow and at speeds below mach looney.

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Originally Posted by tang

Quick update on the new 191 Rens... I did de-tune them (both tips and tails) and it helped alot. Didn't hook, much easier to bring them around and also throw em sideways. Skied them hard in soft but cut-up steeps, gullies and moguls at A Basin and they performed admirably. Given the more width and more shovel, they don't slash as quick as the EHP. I have an AK trip in April and think the Rens will be perfect - maneuverable enough for entrances, and then perfect for big open lines. But my home terrain is more steep tight trees, and this is where I feel the Protest may hold the edge.
This most likely ends with me just +1 on the quiver!

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Anyone have more experience or feedback on newer 191 Rens versus Protests? I have 187s for reference. Use would be touring with a pin binding.

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Originally Posted by waveshello

Very nice, thanks for the pics. Rocker profiles all look so dialed. The ren profile has changed so much since v1--I'd love to try the latest. The OG ren doesn't have a ton of tip surface area (just 135mm width at the tip, for comparison OG dev tips are 136mm) and has less tip splay. I bet that new rocker profile works a lot better in deep snow and at speeds below mach looney.

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As a super devoted disciple of white room renegades. I must say that the new profile of the renegade looks significantly more friendly to all around skiing. Where as I’ve always described the the OG renegades as light sabers in pow, they to be skied at speed and down the fall line. The new ski looks much more deep pow, maybe turned to 10 not to 11, friendly. I’d be very curious to give them a try, but I’m sitting on 3 unmounted OG rens that will probably last me until my legs can’t ski that fast anymore. Even the raven looks more rockered than my 1st gen pair of 184s.


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Took the Renegades for a test ride due to unreasonably good October conditions yesterday.

Felt very similar to the Ravens from the very first turns. They required a bit more input, but were also bit more calm on the tracked out lower section. Lack of any boot drag was the biggest new sensation! They did feel slightly hooky in the rocky crusty moguls down from the moraine. The legs were very empty after a 1700m+ vert day though, but I'm thinking of maybe some more de-tuning for the tails.

How far have you gone with the de-tuning, it's a bit difficult to estimate the contact points with this much rocker?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtZQ4Tt2R28

1700 vert in Oct is solid man, good job!

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Originally Posted by OttoP

Took the Renegades for a test ride due to unreasonably good October conditions yesterday.

Felt very similar to the Ravens from the very first turns. They required a bit more input, but were also bit more calm on the tracked out lower section. Lack of any boot drag was the biggest new sensation! They did feel slightly hooky in the rocky crusty moguls down from the moraine. The legs were very empty after a 1700m+ vert day though, but I'm thinking of maybe some more de-tuning for the tails.

How far have you gone with the de-tuning, it's a bit difficult to estimate the contact points with this much rocker?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtZQ4Tt2R28

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Pent.

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The 191 Renegade is soooooooooooooooo good!! I'm not a big guy (6' 160lbs). Lighter, strong, skiers need not be afraid. These crush big lines, drift, smear and slither through trees.

Really, really amped on these skis. Most impressed how they do on soft groomers. That was unexpected.

Do I need the rest of Hoji's collection?

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Originally Posted by SnowMachine

The 191 Renegade is soooooooooooooooo good!! I'm not a big guy (6' 160lbs). Lighter, strong, skiers need not be afraid. These crush big lines, drift, smear and slither through trees.

Really, really amped on these skis. Most impressed how they do on soft groomers. That was unexpected.

Do I need the rest of Hoji's collection?

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Get a Raven, super versatile pretty great in powder too


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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

Get a Raven, super versatile pretty great in powder too


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That's what I was thinking. What binding? I feel like it would be the perfect Shift ski. I'm hoping the new Shift V2 will retain the light-ish weight, but fix the pre-release shortcoming. The PT16 feels heavy for a lighter ski, but I'm totally happy with them on the Rens.

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Originally Posted by SnowMachine

The 191 Renegade is soooooooooooooooo good!! I'm not a big guy (6' 160lbs). Lighter, strong, skiers need not be afraid. These crush big lines, drift, smear and slither through trees.

Really, really amped on these skis. Most impressed how they do on soft groomers. That was unexpected.

Do I need the rest of Hoji's collection?

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I started with the Raven. Just bought the Hojis that haven’t been mounted yet. Based on this thread a Renegade is probably on next seasons list.

So yeah collect them all I guess.

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Originally Posted by ey_allen

I started with the Raven. Just bought the Hojis that haven’t been mounted yet. Based on this thread a Renegade is probably on next seasons list.

So yeah collect them all I guess.

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It’s inevitable.


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Originally Posted by North

I used a Raven + Ren for all of my touring last season, except for one dumb day of sidestepping down steep talus.

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Haha, I was a bit skeptical of your Ren-to-Raven touring ratio, but 31 touring days later, 25 of them have been on the Renegade…

Not that many deep days, but it seems to work well in the heavily faceted thin base we've had this season. They work surprisingly well in some dust on breakable crust situations too.

The hookiness I mentioned earlier seems to have been caused by cupped bases from the factory. Took them for a grind and they're a different ski now.

Took the Ravens out for one tour before christmas and they felt so light and a bit flimsy. Might take a few tours to adjust myself back to the smaller ski when it's time for longer tours.

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Originally Posted by SnowMachine

That's what I was thinking. What binding? I feel like it would be the perfect Shift ski. I'm hoping the new Shift V2 will retain the light-ish weight, but fix the pre-release shortcoming. The PT16 feels heavy for a lighter ski, but I'm totally happy with them on the Rens.

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I have Vipecs on my Ravens, I’ve considered putting some STH on them and getting a new pair with 4lock for touring


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Just spent the day on my 2013 Owls (HALS) 186. 11 years old and I still can't think of a goddamn thing to make them better. So frictionless and effortless. No warping. Perfect reverse camber profile. Why they changed it is beyond me, but I can only imagine because new is better. Which is hard as all goddamn hell to imagine.

All that said, all these skis see is fresh snow. So, there's that. I live in Japan and have my local resort dialed. I know when I'll be spending a day bell-to-bell on fresh lines in the forest... often if not usually in a blizzard.

Owl Ren has got to be the best pow ski of all time. Yet there are people on this board that say the ON3P Billygoat from ~2016 is even better. It's hard to wrap my head around anything being easier than what is already so easy and effortless.

What do I wanna ski to compliment this gem?
HL FL113, FR110/R110, ON3P BG, Cease & Desist, Quixote, Protest, GPO. Kinda want an MPro 108, but would rather go boutique/niche because I think I'm that kind of skier-- Hard to satisfy with mass-produced designs.

Oh, and -- Hold My Dick. Because it was one of those days.

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Originally Posted by gaijin

Just spent the day on my 2013 Owls (HALS) 186. 11 years old and I still can't think of a goddamn thing to make them better. So frictionless and effortless. No warping. Perfect reverse camber profile. Why they changed it is beyond me, but I can only imagine because new is better. Which is hard as all goddamn hell to imagine.

All that said, all these skis see is fresh snow. So, there's that. I live in Japan and have my local resort dialed. I know when I'll be spending a day bell-to-bell on fresh lines in the forest... often if not usually in a blizzard.

Owl Ren has got to be the best pow ski of all time. Yet there are people on this board that say the ON3P Billygoat from ~2016 is even better. It's hard to wrap my head around anything being easier than what is already so easy and effortless.

What do I wanna ski to compliment this gem?
HL FL113, FR110/R110, ON3P BG, Cease & Desist, Quixote, Protest, GPO. Kinda want an MPro 108, but would rather go boutique/niche because I think I'm that kind of skier-- Hard to satisfy with mass-produced designs.

Oh, and -- Hold My Dick. Because it was one of those days.

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Dude, I want to bring my Rens and come visit you. Japan looks so cool!!

HL FR110 is on my "buy soon" list. If it has that drifty, turny feel in a more damp package, count me in for it as a DD.

I think the new Ren is darned good, but then I've never skied the old one. It's a ski that makes you ski differently. I can't wait for more days on it.

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Originally Posted by gaijin

Just spent the day on my 2013 Owls (HALS) 186. 11 years old and I still can't think of a goddamn thing to make them better. So frictionless and effortless. No warping. Perfect reverse camber profile. Why they changed it is beyond me, but I can only imagine because new is better. Which is hard as all goddamn hell to imagine.

All that said, all these skis see is fresh snow. So, there's that. I live in Japan and have my local resort dialed. I know when I'll be spending a day bell-to-bell on fresh lines in the forest... often if not usually in a blizzard.

Owl Ren has got to be the best pow ski of all time. Yet there are people on this board that say the ON3P Billygoat from ~2016 is even better. It's hard to wrap my head around anything being easier than what is already so easy and effortless.

What do I wanna ski to compliment this gem?
HL FL113, FR110/R110, ON3P BG, Cease & Desist, Quixote, Protest, GPO. Kinda want an MPro 108, but would rather go boutique/niche because I think I'm that kind of skier-- Hard to satisfy with mass-produced designs.

Oh, and -- Hold My Dick. Because it was one of those days.

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R110 will probably be your best choice.

The new ski isn’t as good as the old one, it’s easier to ski and floats more at lower speeds, but the OG is the king. It has frictionless acceleration like no other ski. The BG is better at chop skiing and heavy schmoo, but the ren is still king.