Wasatch Dirt Thread

I havent ridden either but i support the trails in general. There was 2? 3? years of comment period, plenty of time to get feedback, and the writing was on the wall for how these were going to be constructed. I walked a bit of the 19st trail before it was open, and echo the sentiments of build quality and erosion issues ive seen, but, we're dealing with govt here who probably had to take the lowest bid, which probably didn't help. comment shut down a switchbacking trail to the top of wire, if i remember correctly, so at least the comment period did some good. I feel we're reaching a carrying capacity issue on the shoreline trail, but recently, it seems like the bike traffic is more dedicated to the popperton-city creek segments, and the zoo-dry creek seems a bit less trafficked. These complaints are tough to take seriously as the hikers are probably the same ones who complain about bike speed on multi-directional, multi use trails.
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I think the problem is that hikers hate the trails and think us MTBrs are loving them. The hikers think they were left out from getting good trails as the trails suits MTBers better. Truth is bikers hate them too, we didn't get special treatment. But now it's all of a sudden hikers vs bikers because of this misunderstanding and we are going to shut down everything until we figure out something that already has been figured out when the government gave plenty of time for public input for years.


And the Mark of Zorro scars on the mountain side will get filled in by plants naturally. Yeah, us bikers wish there were less switchbacks too in that section.

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Originally Posted by mar123

Brian Maffly of the SL Tribune also has a long history of fighting MTB development at Olympus hills, Draper and in general. Not surprising given the tone of the article.

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Pretty shitty of him to only have one other voice in the entire piece. That's shitty journalism.

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Originally Posted by muted reborn

I think the problem is that hikers hate the trails and think us MTBrs are loving them. The hikers think they were left out from getting good trails as the trails suits MTBers better. Truth is bikers hate them too, we didn't get special treatment. But now it's all of a sudden hikers vs bikers because of this misunderstanding and we are going to shut down everything until we figure out something that already has been figured out when the government gave plenty of time for public input for years.

And the Mark of Zorro scars on the mountain side will get filled in by plants naturally. Yeah, us bikers wish there were less switchbacks too in that section.

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Good point. Everyone's getting shafted to some extent but the benefits are pretty well spread out I'd say. Bikers got directional trails closed to hiking and lost a bunch of trail which used to be multi-use. Same deal for hikers. Everyone's pissed instead on focusing on the fact that each use group now gets to do their things without risking getting mowed down/mowing down someone. Boooo fucking hooooo the hikers didn't get purpose built trails. I'd be happy to trade so they get the new stuff and the bikers get to ride the old trails. I like them all as long as they're directional.
The argument about visual disruption is particularly egregious. As you pointed out the new trails will be blended in within a couple seasons at most. Then they will look exactly like the other 50 old dirt roads and 250 social trails zigzagging ALL OVER THE FOOTHILLS which nobody seems to give 2 fucks about.
We should have left everything as is in order to protect the overly sensitive from change. Complaining about something for years while blocking any change that could address said thing is a fucking way of life for some people.

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Originally Posted by YourMomJustCalled

Pretty shitty of him to only have one other voice in the entire piece. That's shitty journalism.

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It's a hit piece. Calling it journalism is a major stretch, it's the kind of stuff you'd see on Fox News, it legally can't be considered as anything other than an opinion piece.

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Originally Posted by Phall

These complaints are tough to take seriously as the hikers are probably the same ones who complain about bike speed on multi-directional, multi use trails.

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And/or they're the same ones that complain that bikers build trails that are too steep. The city builds trails that are mellow grade and now they complain that the trails are too flat. They're also complaining about rounded switchbacks: https://www.sltrib.com/news/environm...-long-awaited/

I did find it odd that they decided to make Dry Creek DH-only. When I first saw the master plan years ago I swore it called for Dry Creek becoming uphill-only for bikes and building a new DH bike-only trail parallel to it, which made more sense. Though, either option seems very preferable to the current multi-directional status. Dry Creek doesn't strike me as some primo hiking trail that is a tragedy to lose, but people generally dislike change of any kind, especially the upper crusty types that populate the Ave's.

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Originally Posted by Boissal

It's a hit piece. Calling it journalism is a major stretch, it's the kind of stuff you'd see on Fox News, it legally can't be considered as anything other than an opinion piece.

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This is the exact rhetoric that pushes both sides further apart. Knowing who Maffly is, and what perspective he carries, and therefore why he only gave a voice to Barness is a better use of your time. Comparing it to Fox news is a waste.

Is it true that Terror has been shut down? Was just in the bike shop and they were talking about this.

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Originally Posted by dfinn

Is it true that Terror has been shut down? Was just in the bike shop and they were talking about this.

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never rode it but based on twin peaks being closed to bikes now, yes

Does that mean anything above Terror is closed as well?

edit : I'm getting some mixed info on the current state of things. Bike shop guys said it's definitely closed off from the top but I talked to a friend who rode it yesterday and said there wasn't any closure. I'll probably head up there and take a look myself today.

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Originally Posted by dfinn

Does that mean anything above Terror is closed as well?

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This is the only trail that is closed to mtb now as far as I can tell https://www.trailforks.com/trails/twin-peaks-access/

Maybe hike a bike is ok to get to mtb sanctioned trails at the top?

what a gong show this all is.

I just rode it this afternoon. The only signage indicating closed to bikes is at the beginning of the trail Jtran10 linked. I went up "Escalators or Camel Back" or "Two Hump Pump" as named on Strava, and there were no signs indicating it was closed. Nothing at the top of twin peaks. I assumed they just wanted to keep bikes off the narrow part of the trail that goes up from the two track at the beginning. They may need more signs. I certainly want to be respectful of any closure if that's the case.

Attachment 375583

Attachment 375582

All the info and master plans for foothills here:
https://www.slc.gov/parks/trails-natural-lands/ftsmp/

Again as others have stated this has been in the works for years and there were many meetings open to the public for their imput....im guessing the people complaing now including the SLtrib are the ones who were always opposed from the beginning.

There are new uphill and downhill trails proposed in the master plan in the twin peaks zone. Just make the new DH not a flow trail and better then terror ridge and I'll be a happy camper.

from slc.gov website...

Twin Peaks

Twin Peaks Trail (foot-traffic only; no bikes) – construction as been paused to further investigate cultural and environmental elements of the natural landscape and ensure the goals of trail implementation can be met; management designation changed to remove uphill bikes as there are no designated downhill bike trails from Twin Peaks in the Phase I implementation. If a designated downhill bike trail is constructed in Phase II, then this trail may be opened to uphill bike traffic.

Dry Creek Alternate
Construction is scheduled to begin in October 2021. The final alignment and management designation is still being determined to minimize the environmental impact while still aiming to disperse users on the high-volume Dry Creek Trail

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Originally Posted by YourMomJustCalled

This is the exact rhetoric that pushes both sides further apart. Knowing who Maffly is, and what perspective he carries, and therefore why he only gave a voice to Barness is a better use of your time. Comparing it to Fox news is a waste.

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Don't be obtuse, a piece that gleefully reports on the complaints of a vocal minority and amplifies their voice while making 0 mentions of the benefits the new trails carry isn't a fucking piece of journalism, it's pure propaganda serving an agenda. By an author who has a history of opposing MTB development to boot. The comparison with Fox News is warranted, every time they get sued they hide behind the fact that they're not an journalistic outfit (they're "entertainment") and as such aren't bound by the rules of journalism. Same goes here, this "article" is an opinion piece that isn't labeled as such. The pic of Fisher holding his piece of arrowleaf balsamroot feed the same narrative, the fucking plant isn't endangered of threatened in the least and nobody's out there rescuing it when 2 acres are getting dug out of the foothills to put up a new mansion. And suddenly we care about the cultural significance of the area? Oops, we put a pipeline and 100 miles of dirt road through it already but by all means let's not add a couple trails at this point.
Trying to understand the reasoning of a bunch of hypocrites isn't a good use of my time. The other side is not trying to find a middle ground, it's trying to maintain a status quo that benefits them and fuck everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Boissal

<snip> trying to maintain a status quo that benefits them and fuck everyone else.

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Kind of the history of mankind in a nutshell, eh?

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Originally Posted by skaredshtles

Kind of the history of mankind in a nutshell, eh?

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Yes, which is why I'm neither surprised nor excessively bothered by this development, it's the natural order of things. Trail building will resume at some point, or not. I'll ride the new trails or I'll ride the old ones and I'll be psyched about it, no rending of garment needed in the meantime. I'll yield to hikers, say hi and smile, and not ride too fast.

Realistically this only affects mallwalker at the moment since the rest of us are moving to higher elevations for the season :biggrin:
He doesn't seem too worried about it so it's all good.

Reading that article one would think that the foothills are pristine wilderness untouched by man with the exception of a handful of geriatric NIMBY hikers and Save Our Canyons members

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Originally Posted by Boissal

Realistically this only affects mallwalker at the moment since the rest of us are moving to higher elevations for the season :biggrin:
He doesn't seem too worried about it so it's all good.

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haha. I rode the first 115 days of owning this POS bike on the old trails, so I don't really care. I like the new trails better because of the directionality, and I would be disappointed if they got rid of that aspect of the trail plan. I'd love dry creek to be directional downhill only, but meanwhile I ride it up and down and just try to find times when it isn't busy.

but honestly whatever is up there is fine with me; I'm super lazy and like to leave from my house, and it's still way more fun than running.

I did roll my fuckin eyes at mendenhall mentioning the sacredness of aves twin peaks... there are soooooo many unsanctioned trails up there. And the "influx of bikers" is just the seasonal load I think... in a month it'll be back to quiet, except with more trails. I’ve been running up there for years, taking my dog, hiking with my wife, etc and it’s always the same…

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Originally Posted by mar123

Just make the new DH not a flow trail and better then terror ridge and I'll be a happy camper.

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My money says this outcome has a 0% probability. Something akin to Levitate v1 is probably the best we can hope for. Regardless, Terror seems like a goner. The proposed alignments for the multi-use Twins access trail and the Twins DH trail either cross it or are almost right on top of it. I'll be pretty surprised if they don't raze Terror as part building the new Twins trails.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

My money says this outcome has a 0% probability. Something akin to Levitate v1 is probably the best we can hope for. Regardless, Terror seems like a goner. The proposed alignment for the multi-use Twins access trail is almost right on top of it. I'll be pretty surprised if they don't raze Terror as part building the new Twins trails.

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This. Terror is gone, to be replaced by a moderate pitch broad hiking trail lined with rows of lovingly transplanted balsamroot and poop bags.

We definitely need more green flow trails. I'm on board!

Well I scratched an itch today and did the skyline drive-north Holbrook ride. The verdict is...not really worth it. The bottom half of the trail is quite fun and has a mini luge section, but the top is mega steep, mega loose and not that fun, especially with some inconvenient snow patches. I love jank but the ROI on this one was a bit off. I did finish the loop with a bountiful dh lap which is running great post storm. Attachment 375590

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Originally Posted by dfinn

We definitely need more green flow trails. I'm on board!

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Have I got a Facebook group for you.....

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Originally Posted by Boissal

This. Terror is gone, to be replaced by a moderate pitch broad hiking trail lined with rows of lovingly transplanted balsamroot and poop bags.

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Maybe we'll still be allowed up Black Mountain? Slim probability that 70s bush maybe, possibly survives?

I feel like I should be in a rush to go ride all this stuff right away before it's gone. But, on the other hand we know it's all good until at least October.

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Originally Posted by dfinn

We definitely need more green flow trails. I'm on board!

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Well, we certainly can't do anything that might make anyone feel excluded or inadequate.

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Originally Posted by altabird92

Well I scratched an itch today and did the skyline drive-north Holbrook ride. The verdict is...not really worth it. The bottom half of the trail is quite fun and has a mini luge section, but the top is mega steep, mega loose and not that fun, especially with some inconvenient snow patches. I love jank but the ROI on this one was a bit off. I did finish the loop with a bountiful dh lap which is running great post storm. Attachment 375590

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Bummer, I thought the lower half was a great. I'll still do the full loop at least once just because. It's ironic that Holbrook and Parrish both have a good half and a not-so-good half, and that they're at opposite ends.