ON3P SKIS Discussion

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Originally Posted by augy55

Really interested in the BG shape, currently riding Moment Wildcats 190 for a pow ski. For those of you that have ridden both, how do they differ in feel? I like the Wildcats but looking for something looser overall.

In thanks, my Woodsman 108s. My daily ski and my absolute favorite ski ever. May even look at BG 108s because why not.

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I used to ski 184 Bibbys as my new-snow ski. I also really like my WD108 so far with limited days on it. All in the PNW for reference. In 3D snow or any kind of soft chop the 184 BG is basically just a looser surfier Bibby IMO. More damp with more ski out front so I find it's more stable and charges a bit harder even though it's significantly looser especially in heavy snow. The Bibby was always a bit hooky in funky heavy snow or tight low angle deep snow. BG has better float for me too, especially in lower angle stuff.

Bibby was a better firm snow ski. Better carver. A bit more playful in the jibby sense, but still not as loose and fall line playful as the BG. The 184 Bibby tips always looked and skied on the short side for me especially in deep stuff. To me they are a better soft leftovers or a few inches new all mountain ski than a true powder ski. But so far I think the WD108 is better at that than the Bibbys.

Got my first proper laps on 189 C&Ds today after having been on 184 BGs for every powder day the last 6 years. Basically no adjustment needed between the two. Differences are that the C&Ds are floatier (duh), feel lighter and poppier (likely due to the tour core plus having Attack 13s vs. the CAST Pivot 18s on my BGs) and aren't quite as damp in heavy, not super deep chop.

I'm glad I went with the 189 C&Ds (I'm 5'11", 155lbs) even though I'm sure the 184s would work for me, if for no other reason than there's a bigger difference between them and my BGs so it should be more obvious when I should choose one over the other.

Finally got to take my 108 BG tours out and they are just SO good. Haven't been on a goat since last year and now I remember why I wanted these so bad. Just effortless skiing. And they float way better than they should for 108. Somehow they keep an awful lot of crud busting ability even at the reduced weight.

Get some!

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BG Tour stoke

https://vimeo.com/512060150

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Originally Posted by mtskibum16

I used to ski 184 Bibbys as my new-snow ski. I also really like my WD108 so far with limited days on it. All in the PNW for reference. In 3D snow or any kind of soft chop the 184 BG is basically just a looser surfier Bibby IMO. More damp with more ski out front so I find it's more stable and charges a bit harder even though it's significantly looser especially in heavy snow. The Bibby was always a bit hooky in funky heavy snow or tight low angle deep snow. BG has better float for me too, especially in lower angle stuff.

Bibby was a better firm snow ski. Better carver. A bit more playful in the jibby sense, but still not as loose and fall line playful as the BG. The 184 Bibby tips always looked and skied on the short side for me especially in deep stuff. To me they are a better soft leftovers or a few inches new all mountain ski than a true powder ski. But so far I think the WD108 is better at that than the Bibbys.

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Appreciate the info, very helpful.

BGs were def not wrong today. Sorry for the somewhat cliche tip into the view picture - def need to get a GoPro game.
Attachment 362704

The snow is getting a bit crusty/wind/sun affected in my neck of the woods - aka we def need some fresh snow (but at least we have a fair bit of snow unlike up north eh Adrgha ), but the BGs did not mind (even if the pilot did) ;)

Biggest surprise? How easy they were to do kick turns with. I did not see that one coming - I thought they would be managable if a bit on the long side, but no - all of a sudden I was the kick turn master. Go figure.

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Originally Posted by kid-kapow

BGs were def not wrong today. Sorry for the somewhat cliche tip into the view picture - def need to get a GoPro game.
Attachment 362704

The snow is getting a bit crusty/wind/sun affected in my neck of the woods - aka we def need some fresh snow (but at least we have a fair bit of snow unlike up north eh Adrgha ), but the BGs did not mind (even if the pilot did) ;)

Biggest surprise? How easy they were to do kick turns with. I did not see that one coming - I thought they would be managable if a bit on the long side, but no - all of a sudden I was the kick turn master. Go figure.

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Love the green glow off the snow from the bases [emoji172]

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Originally Posted by Orthoski

I trialed a pair of Woodsman 96s on a pretty good groomer day out East. In softer, man-made snow on the side of the trails they felt great but, on the actual corduroy, I have never been on a ski that felt so out of control at random times. There was a hookiness as the outside ski didn't want to turn inwards. Furthermore, Blister in their original Kartel review describes a pond-skipping feel on the ski that was downright scary when conditions got firm - I can't say I've ever felt that on the Kartel/Jeffrey but boy did I feel it on the Woodsman, especially with a double fall line on a runout.

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Thought I would update on this. Finally got my Woodsman 96s (182) out again after a base grind and edge tune set to 1 deg/1 deg (same as the factory) - solved the hookiness problem completely. They felt dialed between being having a tail with backbone but easily being able to shut it down, especially in softer snow, but still very maneuverable even at low speed. Scott diagnosed this remotely as a base bevel issue, and to his credit had offered to have me mail the skis back to rectify the factory tune but took them to a reputable shop. REALLY wonderful ski for anything but bulletproof for those of us on the Least Coast (have Jeffreys when it gets deeper).

Attachment 362764

This is what tip pressure on goats does.

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Originally Posted by jackattack

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This is what tip pressure on goats does.

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That doesn’t look like any fun!! SG love [emoji869]


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Caution: You could choke on pow and die.

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Originally Posted by PowTron

Love the green glow off the snow from the bases [emoji172]

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I've had a couple folks ask me if I have LEDs built into the bottoms of my skis lol.

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Originally Posted by Rowen

BG Tour stoke

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Nice!

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Originally Posted by jackattack

ON3P I love you, but I cannot read one more person ask "how much tip pressure can the BG handle?"

read the damn thread



i'm out

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Yeah...I’m getting there, too. Does Scott need to publish his version on “Mental Floss” for the Billy Goat like Shane did for the Spatula?

to prevent a harakiri event out of sheer turdiness here:

The original phrasing from Iggy that I referenced was something like "if you over-drive the tips on BGs the tails will wash out". That is a pretty damn clear description and sage advice all wrapped up in a few words.

So the long and short of it is as easy as;

1) if you have them, just ski them - they will let you know if they are unhappy regardless of what you put underneath them or how you ski/drive them. Then just correct accordingly (-> the same is true for pretty much any ski out there). They are awesome skis. And while Blister might not rate them highly, lots and lots of mags do.

2) Before replying "you can ski them however" then following up by either qualifying the remark by referencing the shape (pin tail paddletech) or posting a picture in deep snow, ok cool - you are not disproving or proving much. (if so, drive them hard, like really hard (not as in loading the tips), in soft snow and see what happens re point 1 (or remove the qualifier all together))

3) (insert SG reference) -> different ski, different characteristics

4) and while the shape is a obvious give away (while the praise might not be), if you like to drive the shit out of your tips BGs is not for you. Re point 1. In all other instances they are awesome skis if you get to ride a lot of soft snow.

So while I kinda opened a can of worms by trying to nuancing how to ski them (based on a mag buying them and not finding the universal praise be applicable to how he liked to ski faces (he then moved on to wren114s which he then found too stiff to be damp enough), my experiences of the ski and what I have perceived is the general consensus), what is getting equally old to people asking how to ski BGs is mags acting all jaded seemingly indicating BGs is the end all be all for all mags in soft snow and that they are instantly intutive for all skiers. They are not. Luckily they do a lot of people really, really happy though - regardless if they have a learning curve with them or not - so everything is good regardless.

And the best praise I can give them is that they are my #1 choice of ski to be on if I want to ski terrain I do not know fast in soft snow. Their ability to both go mach looney through pretty much any variable snow yet pivot on a dime is something damned special.

And yeah, we're all gonna die - leaving how to ski BGs to one side or not - so whoopty do.

;)

BG was an instant win for me. First turn in I was like “damn how did I not get a pair sooner.”

If tell all my buddies if you are familiar with various turn shapes then these things are the fucking Swiss Army knives of the hill.

I didn’t find it a difficult ski too figure out at all. Just the opposite.....instant hero ski.


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Originally Posted by kid-kapow

Biggest surprise? How easy they were to do kick turns with. I did not see that one coming - I thought they would be managable if a bit on the long side, but no - all of a sudden I was the kick turn master. Go figure.

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Agree! Something about the balance point or I dunno what makes kick turns super easy.

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Originally Posted by fleaches

Agree! Something about the balance point or I dunno what makes kick turns super easy.

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Same. So after 5 years on the BG I think I’ve finally figured out the kick turn on it.

I like to initiate my kick turns with a fair amount of pressure on the shovels, not too much tho. Here, I can really set the tone for my lower foot with a centered stance on the BG. Then on my uphill ski I completely release all shovel pressure as I bend my knee and swing the inside ski uphill. Depending on your climbing bail, your amount of shovel pressure and stance will vary. I was getting severe washout in my tails if I was trying to aggressively climb or make a big kick turn. Thought it was my skins but I got those professionally tuned so that’s not the case. I emailed Iggy about it and he recommended that I make shorter kick turns with less pressure on the shovels. Crisis averted. Thanks Scott!

That’s just how I skin the non-asym BG. A fair amount of shovel pressure with a centered/ aggressive stance.

Hope this helps!

har

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Originally Posted by the_flying_v

Thought it was my skins but I got those professionally tuned

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what?


tune your own f*cking skins?

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Originally Posted by Quandary

Needless to say the BGs are now off for a visit to the Montana CNC tuning machine for a base restructure. Now I know why a number of you keep saying in essence you're crazy the BG skis fine everywhere. Maybe the do, I'll find out after I get them back.

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To follow up on my post regarding the jacked bases on my Billy Goats. Picked them up from the tune shop yesterday. The guys in the shop were laughing when they gave them to me. Told me the bases on the skis were totally screwed up. Not only edge high both edges both skis, the bevels on the edges were all messed up as well. They said they believed somehow the skis must have missed the factory tune, only way they could imagine the skis being as far off as they were.

Skied the skis this morning with the now corrected base. What a revelation. To be honest, I don't know why people struggle with the BGs on groomers. They ski perfectly fine on hard snow. Didn't even think about it, just skied 'em and they were great. Would the BG be the groomer ski of choice no, but they are very capable and fun on hard snow. In fact for me they are a vastly superior ski in all conditions than the Woodsman 116s I bought during the spring sale. One of my lucky sons has now inherited those skis.

My advice if you are having trouble with the BG on hard snow/groomers as many here have reported I would suggest you check the bases to make sure you have a good base structure.

Finally, Sessions, as for you my friend, I would suggest that it does no one looking for advice in this forum to be the ON3P equivalent of a global warming denier. ON3P makes a great ski. But they are a small manufacturer, they are human, occasionally they screw up. This was one of those cases. In the future if you have no help advice you may want to choose silence.

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Originally Posted by Quandary

Scott, thanks for the detailed response. The BGs I had mounted up this past year skied great out of the box with no added tuning by me or my tuner. That said when I have the W116s mounted up this summer I would like to give my tuner a specific set of instructions to check the tune on the skis. Presumably it's as simple as a flat base and 1/1 bevel on the edges. If it is more than that and its not to much trouble could you please let me know exactly what I should tell him to look for?

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Originally Posted by Quandary

To follow up on my post regarding the jacked bases on my Billy Goats. Picked them up from the tune shop yesterday. The guys in the shop were laughing when they gave them to me. Told me the bases on the skis were totally screwed up. Not only edge high both edges both skis, the bevels on the edges were all messed up as well. They said they believed somehow the skis must have missed the factory tune, only way they could imagine the skis being as far off as they were.

Skied the skis this morning with the now corrected base. What a revelation. To be honest, I don't know why people struggle with the BGs on groomers. They ski perfectly fine on hard snow. Didn't even think about it, just skied 'em and they were great. Would the BG be the groomer ski of choice no, but they are very capable and fun on hard snow. In fact for me they are a vastly superior ski in all conditions than the Woodsman 116s I bought during the spring sale. One of my lucky sons has now inherited those skis.

My advice if you are having trouble with the BG on hard snow/groomers as many here have reported I would suggest you check the bases to make sure you have a good base structure.

Finally, Sessions, as for you my friend, I would suggest that it does no one looking for advice in this forum to be the ON3P equivalent of a global warming denier. ON3P makes a great ski. But they are a small manufacturer, they are human, occasionally they screw up. This was one of those cases. In the future if you have no help advice you may want to choose silence.

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So which is it? Fine or fully fucked?

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Originally Posted by Sessiøn

So which is it? Fine or fully fucked?

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They were fine in 2/3 feet of snow. Of course any base would be. The shop that mounted obviously didn't check 'em very well as they were fucked. They are now great on hard snow and soft (both of which I skied today) after the base restructure.

In addition when I posted that I was buying into the "BGs don't do groomers hype" not realizing that the problem had nothing to do with the BG design or my skiing and was in fact a really bad factory tune. Now had you been helpful in posting you could have said "Dude BGs really should be ok on hard snow, maybe you need to check the bases for a bad base tune". I would have checked it out and realized the problem and you would have had the satisfaction of being helpful to a fellow skier.

That said, bad on me for not figuring this out on my own immediately. It took a skiing buddy to say check the bases I'll bet they're messed up. But i'll be honest with never having bought a new pair of skis this bad and the first shop telling me they looked fine the thought never occurred to me.

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Originally Posted by kid-kapow

3) (insert SG reference) -> different ski, different characteristics

;)

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RES is RES

BG108t

Attachment 362953

Tip Pressed

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As I’ve said before, these tips have so much surface area you can pretty much lean on them as much as you would ever want to IN POW.

Brought out the supergoats at the bird today. Holy shit these are great powder skis.


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