Ah, sorry man. That hurts. Dogs are the best trail building buddies. They never say, 'can't make it today'.
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Ah, sorry man. That hurts. Dogs are the best trail building buddies. They never say, 'can't make it today'.
First trailwork of the year. Attacked wet spots, checked that water wasn't running down the trail (it wasn't) and looked at problem sections
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thanks guys, definitely a bit of a (quiet) hole in our lives.
work is looking good there, lee!
Once again I went to cut a blow down and it was already done![emoji106] One was left that I was able to cut.
The one that was cut before I got there had another old bigger one just beyond it by 10'. The person who cut the fresh one left the old one. Not sure why, so I cut the old one off to the left side and tuned up the up-n-over section to make it smoother for an air. It was a bb grind rolling it. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...5a6c2a50c4.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...97b3d9022f.jpg
Man that sucks. Sorry to hear.
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Finished up the swamp monster
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looks moist!
We could use some of that moisture down here! We've only had one notable rain in the last 9 months.
Enough waiting for rain to dig... Local rangers I work with ok'd two pretty big projects. Not ideal with dry dirt, but we've pushed ahead anyways.
First project includes two sections of trail. We brushed one section and have finished two out of three re-routes. The second section will be a lot more work. These are trails in an urban canyon system that run along the rim of a finger canyon behind homes. They are in a new trail plan that has been in process of getting approved for ages. Rangers have gotten tired of waiting and want to bring them up to standard now.
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The other project is a new trail to bypass a busy road that accesses part of the park.
It is almost done and turned out pretty cool because I was able to use terrain and vegetation to block most of it from view from the road.
Also cool because we had an unusually bright moon during early evening last weekend so I was able to get tons done by moonlight despite having other commitments during the daytime. 2nd/3rd pics taken using night sight mode.
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Upgrade project continues, we did another short reroute yesterday to replace this short section that drops steeply down and then climbs steeply back up. The dirt sucks here and the edge of the trail has been breaking away. It's a bit hard to see but half the original tread has been broken away on each side. The final build still undulates but not as much. Now we just need more rain to pack it down.
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This is trailwork related so I'll put it here, but it could just as well go in the rant thread.
I got a text a couple days ago asking if I could help our local group's paid trail crew with a project they are doing in one of our local parks.
They got approval to build a boardwalk underneath a bridge. Until now trail users had to cross a stream, ride along some gravel for 50 feet and then cross back with an immediate climb out that is moderately steep and rocky. The first crossing usually has a couple inches water while the other before the climb is a few inches to half foot deep. I don't clean that climb out all the time. Lots of people have to get off and push. Wet tires make it tough.
The boardwalk they are building bypasses the two crossings and goes across a slope of rip-rap rock next to the bridge pilings. They spent 10 days or more on this bridge so I'm guessing it cost $20k in materials and labor. All to avoid getting your wheels wet and 10 seconds of hike a bike. For that investment you'd think they could make the bridge cool or interesting. But instead it's flat, straight, and boring.
I've been the trail org's lead volunteer in this park for 15 years. Despite my role the trail crew organizes projects like this directly with the rangers behind my back. They actively avoid anyone else's input and don't even show the courtesy to tell me when they've got a project going (until they need help). While I'm tempted to tell them to piss off, I come out as a means of damage control. Their work can usually be described as something a land manager will love but no mountain biker will be excited to ride.
This time, they had laid out the bridge decking so it was all staggered instead of flush. Most of the way across this offset was only an inch or so, no big deal. But at the end of the bridge where there is a turn, they used some longer boards and staggered them all half foot or more rather than lining them up flush, and configured them so there was a big rectangular shaped platform at the end rather than offsetting them so the bridge deck would have a visual curve that would look somewhat natural.
The entire bridge looked out of place to begin with, but this part looked fucking terrible. Like, what the fuck are you thinking you fucking drunk idiot terrible. I didn't get a pic so it might be hard to visualize. I was told it's close to end of day, we need to screw these boards down and then we can come back and fix it another day. Right. We both know that'll never happen. I told him fuck that, start screwing the boards in Ill move them to where they need to be, up against the rocks and forming a somewhat curved shape. Looks more natural, and allows for riders to take a line over the rock. Even he agreed after it looked better after. WTF.
To cap off the stupidity, they went with a fence rail the whole way across the straight flat section, but ended it at exactly the spot where a rider could go over the edge if they lost control at the turn getting onto the bridge. It's a 3 foot fall onto a jagged rock if you mess up here. He thinks no railing here is perfectly fine.
$20k for something that is completely unnecessary and pretty well bungled. Mind blown. I'm sure our group's director and board with love it.
There was an opportunity to make this boardwalk cool with some turns and tying it into the rocky slope a bit. But that was too much to ask (if I had been asked) Instead let's keep it flat, level, and boring.
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This is the admittedly tough climb out. It's far from unrideable. But apparently it was too tough. I am positive the main motivation for building this entire boardwalk was to give riders with a more direct approach to this climb. Before the bridge, you had to climb out of the creek bed. That is what made it a challenge.
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This is the end where the boards had been staggered. They are all flush together or against the rocks now. This gives riders the option to ride over the rocks on the inside, on a lower line and a higher line. The way the boards had been staggered before left gaps between the ends of some boards and the rocks.
And as mentioned, this turn is the one spot, more than any other, a rider is likely to ride off the side of the bridge. But it was decided the railing did not need to be installed here.
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From yesterday, finished off one end of the trail project I've been working on Now I just need to finish the other end, about 200 ft.</p>
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Worked on a different project today in the same park. A couple of us went out with the ranger on Monday and cleared the brush for this re-route. Today we went out and bench cut it in. Got the whole thing done. Except we need to build a small bridge over a concrete culvert that descends at a 30% slope. It turned out pretty well but man do we need some rain to firm up the tread. The old line went onto private property which was the main reason for moving it. But it was also way too steep.</p>
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So I guess I'm mostly asking Lee Lau, but also anyone else who has tried this.
How has the re-loaming of trails worked out?
Is it worth the trouble in any way?
Does it only Work on lightly used trails?
It only works on lightly used, low angle trails.Quote:
Originally Posted by HotSchmoo
You first have to fix the underlying issue whether it was a low spot, water flow etc etc. Reloaming restores the feel
We finally got rain. A nice long soaking rain from Tues night through Thursday, then some pretty heavy rain overnight. Gave things much of Friday to soak in, then went out for a bit. Gotta take advantage while you can. Never know when it'll be the last rain for the year. Right now extended forecast only shows one day of rain in mid March.
The dirt here is normally rock hard, but with the rain I could easily shave it down with the flat shovel. This section was a bit too off camber and people were already migrating the line to the right. It's nicely benched now.
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Worked until 9pm, got a few projects done.
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Wasn't alone out there
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Full day out in another area today. We have done a ton of work upgrading these trails over the last few years and the drainage worked great. So instead of fixing ruts and repairing storm damage I spent most of my time cleaning sediment out of drains. Built up a couple drains as well with small grade reversals/rollers.
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This section is a bit too steep to be sustainable and develops a rut every year. It has become incised well into the slope and with dirt crumbling off the steep back slope the trail gets off camber on the upslope side. I cut that down to flatten it, and cut the back slope back to be less steep. It is still too steep but will do for now.
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I used all the excess dirt to build up a small berm around the corner. Until now it was a pretty flat turn. This will let people roll through with less braking so hopefully the tread will hold up better.
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Beautiful day out there. Mid 60s with a nice breeze.
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The original line drops down on the right. We had been talking about building an upper line on the left which would have a nice 6-7ft drop at the end. My friend went out and built this on his own a couple weeks back. It is burly, with not insignificant risk of tagging your handlebar on the rock to the left.
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Looking up from the bottom. There is a rut out of frame that both lines drop you into. We will need to deal with that as well.
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What do you use to move dirt like you did for that berm? I have brought buckets out, but they are a pain to carry in and hard to hide. Have thought about a tarp style bucket.</p>
I actually use the heavy duty re-usable plastic grocery bags from Vons/Safeway/Albertson's. You can fill them up pretty much all the way and they hold. Just gotta be a bit careful not to cut them with the shovel when filling them up. I like them because you can stuff a bunch of them in a pack easily. They're light and take up minimal space. They usually last a day or two of trailwork, then you can use them again to line a small garbage can. Buckets work better but as you said they can be a pain to carry around. I used to leave some stashed out on the trails but they always seemed to disappear.Quote:
Originally Posted by jm2e
Trail day with the City this morning. Had more people than expected show up. We were going to clean up a rutted section of trail just beyond a bridge we installed a couple months back. It was the only bridge I hadn't gotten around to cabling in place.
The bridge was gone when we got there, swept down stream during Thursday's storm. We found it 200ft away, pinned against a palm tree.
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Fortunately we had plenty of people to carry it back to the crossing.
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The area of today's project has never seen trailwork before as far as I know. There was a long rut meandering down the tread for 200ft. We dug up the tread, levelled it and built two big drains in front of rolling grade reversals. And bunch cut another section that was badly off camber with rain ruts crossing the trail sideways. With the extra people we finished the original projects for the day in 2 hours. So we walked over to a different trail and fixed ruts and added drains there. Only took an hour or so. So we finished early. Nice to have this stuff fixed up. Lots of clay in the dirt so it's really hard to time working here. It's rock hard when dry but goopy mud right after rain. We hit the sweet spot 2 days after rain where there was just enough moisture for it to be workable but not sticky.
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Got lunch, had a nap at the truck and then headed back to my other project spot and did some digging there for a couple hours.
Pic of a berm I built up the other night in the dark.
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Went back today to clear drains on another couple trails.
This curve seems to be problematic for people. I cover up off trail tracks like this a few times a year. So I added a bit of berm on the outside and cut it back more on the inside to make the turn look less "scary".
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This slight jog in the trail was also problematic so people were straightlining the curve and it looked like shit. So I dug a hole and stuffed it with white thorn cuttings to encourage people to stay on the trail.
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Hiked out a different trail in the dark. Saw this light from afar a couple nights ago and figured someone was hanging out up there. Trail goes right past this. Upon closer inspection it turns out it is there to illuminate their art work https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...ular_smile.gif
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Todays project was installing a bridge over this concrete drain that runs at about a 30% slope.
I missed documenting a few (most) steps but we used telespar posts on each corner and bolted the stringers to them.
There is a persistent seep on the low end of the bridge so we used the full 14ft stringer length rather than 12ft to bridge over part of that.
And we built a French drain underneath it to give the water a place to go. The extra length meant we didnt have enough decking but were able to scrounge some extra 2x6 to finish it today.
We tapered the board width at the end. Gives the illusion of a change in grade. Need to go back and stain the last decking pieces.
That is the old death trap of a bridge on the right, in its long time place.
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Almost done.
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Finished product
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Rider came by and got first tracks as we were about to leave
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From late last week.
Headed back to the other trail network. This section has shitty dirt and needs work after every storm. Ruts form easily.
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There was still a bit of moisture so I formed a couple berms. Looks nice, but won't last long especially if riders skid through here. But the berms will help them not need to do that.
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Fixed up this other section. There is an old fall line moto trail that crosses here. Some riders turn down the moto trail rather than stay on the MTB trail, which causes the tread to collapse. Re- benched this and embedded a couple big rocks to help support the tread.
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This rock is a big reason riders bypass this section. It partially blocks the trail here making it hard to climb up to the next rock feature. Someone tried to shore up the tread here but it won't last long as motos are already damaging it. I plan to split this rock in two and bury each half here to form a much more solid base.
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Back to the other project. The whole point of this one is to get people off a short connector road and avoid a dangerous intersection where it tees into a busy road. Cars haul ass on the main road, and turn onto the side road at speed exactly where pedestrians and bikes want to cross.
Trail along the connector road is now done, and we're adding an extension so they can cross away from the intersection and provide a better sight line to see approaching traffic.
I cut much of the trail last week. Just need to tie in the ends now.
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Machete is usually pretty worthless for trailwork but it is the only good tool Ive found to chop through ice plant
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Last week's work
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Benching the trail up to the main road. Riders will be facing incoming traffic when they reach the road. There is limited visibility from that direction so this will help them see any incoming cars.
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I like how this turned out. Just need to finish the last 15 feet.
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Blowdown next to a rock! There is such little rock here! So I was able to move some rock and make a little skinny to rock feature. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...ee0eab55d8.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...ac35bbca90.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...e288d7ec37.jpg
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Been busy ....We started working on another trail.
First project was to re-route a steep fall line section. Original line went to the left of the blue agave (now covered up by ice plant cuttings) and then dropped steeply down. New line contours down with a couple small grade reversals.
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At one spot on the trail there is a an old concrete pump structure with a pretty solid pipe that sticks out about 3 feet just above ground level. Trail runs right between it and a tree. We had an old bridge left over from elsewhere so we rebuilt it into a ramp here, supported by the pipe and some stakes. Fun little feature that will prevent anyone from riding into or tripping over the pipe.
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The next project was about 500ft of re-benching the tread. Trail was really narrow and in spots had migrated off its original line becoming off camber as bushes grew into the trail corridor. Tread was collapsing in a bunch of spots.
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I went back to the previous project again to do some final touch up. Had not been real happy with this bench cut section since it turned out flat and straight - boring and unnatural. So I cut a dip into the middle of the section and used the dirt to fill outwards, creating a couple small turns in addition to the dip. Small change but looks way better now.
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^nice. Bench cutting is so much work!
Agreed. But 100% necessary around here because we have so many terrible riders who can't hold a line.
Some guys built a trail some years ago at my other local spot that they mostly just rode in to existence. It was fairly well laid out but was off camber and riders were migrating the trail down the slope all over the place, especially where any rocks poked out of the tread. It went from 12" wide to over 6 ft wide in places. We spent three seasons bench cutting all the problem areas and the trail is back to 12-18" in most places.
Yeah, our local SCMTS just filled in this single track corner that had been turned into a double track.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...7c77dfaba6.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by evdog
I went out and took this downed tree down. It's been a long time coming, but I was a bit sketched by it. It was hung up on another dead hanger on top of another dead hanger, so three piled up. It finally dropped enough so I could get a saw on it at waist-chest level.
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After crazy wet cold winter left us feeling like this build season was a complete bust, we got out and discovered this gem.
imagine a photo here of someone standing in the woods on a twenty degree slope with what looks like mossy leafy weedy slab underfoot that extends well up and out of view above
Almost uninterrupted slab for maybe two hundred meters.
The whole trail will be about two miles down about a fifteen hundred foot descent. And won’t get done until next winter. But this discovery will keep me stoked.
imagine a photo here of a twelve inch log being cut with a sawzall
Cut this fukker with the sawzall. It worked, but definitely left me reconsidering an electric chainsaw.
Anyone with opinions?
Am I dumb to consider one that will work with my large and growing collection of Ryobi batteries
EDIT TO ADD: Who do you have to blow around here to share a picture from your phone?
The app is the only way to post pics it seems.
Hard to go against your current battery platform, but I cannot speak to Ryobi saws...never used one. I committed to the Milwaukee platform, so that's what I use. Key with probably any saw is a sharp chain will make the battery last longer.
Ive never used the app but have had good luck lately with Tapatalk. Its still janky and slow, but works. I attach pics one by one from my phones Gallery and it seems to work whereas attaching as an attachment via Tapatalk does not. Oh and no matter what I do any punctuation gets a bunch of funny characters inserted and whatever I type with spaces between lines gets condensed into a single paragraph with all the pics I attached lumped together. Then I go in and edit via web so the post looks normal.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackstraw
As for 18v Ryobi thats the platform I ended up with. Bought a drill first then got a hedge trimmer through the local bike club. It was working well so I bought a couple 4ah batteries for it. For tools that you run fairly continuously like hedger or chainsaw make sure you get the 18v high performance batteries. They last a lot longer than the regular ones. There is another tier above that now called High performance Edge or something like that. Have not tried them.
I do have the 18v chainsaw with 12in bar. Its ok. Like jackstraw mentioned keep the chain sharpened and it works much better. Ive cut out logs as big as 18in cutting from both sides, but that uses almost one battery. So its fine for occasional trees but heavy log outs youd want a gas saw. I ended up using is mostly for brushing and it does that well especially thicker stuff like like manzanita and ceanothus. But its a bit cumbersome to pack in to sites. One of my projects is a 5 or 7 mile ride in depending on how you approach it. So I decided to try the 6in pruning chainsaw which has been great since its much lighter and easier to pack in. And for brushing its almost one-handed operation - the release button is a bit hard to push at same time as the trigger. I recently got a cordless pruner as well which is definitely one-handed. Its way faster than using loppers since you can toss brush aside with the free hand. Max cut is between 3/4 and 1 inch diameter. Between all of these I am well covered for everything up to 18inch logs.
If I was starting over and wanted decent tradeoff with cost I might go with 40v Ryobi. Local club recently got me a 40v hedger and brush saw, and so far I find the hedger way more powerful than the 18v which mainly means it doesnt jam as easily. The first 18v hedger I had lasted 5-6 years which was super impressive. When it died I tried the closest current model to it. One lasted less than two weeks. The second lasted 2 days. No more. I bought a Stihl gas hedger which is rad but I cant use it everywhere due to noise. So far the 40v ryobi has been solid. But if youve got lots of 18v batteries Id go with that. Its expensive to move to another platform, which sucks. Milwaukee and even Dewalt make really good stuff but much more $$$ than 18v Ryobi especially since you have the batteries already.
Some dig stoke from Sunday. This project has been on my wish list for ages and I finally got my hands on a powerful enough roto hammer to make it happen.
The trail drops down a 4ft roller at the bottom of the pic, and then climbs up steeply to where all my gear is stashed in the distance. In between is that rock which sticks out, forcing you to the outside of the line. All too often, the tread along the edge collapses. It is a steep side hill and there is no good way to support the edge. To make things worse there is an old moto trail that crosses at the low spot and they have recently rediscovered the trail, often damaging the bench when they try to climb it. This line has been enough of a pain that many riders skip this section by riding down the moto trail from the switchback above. This has also damaged the bench cut above, where they turn down.
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Milwaukee SDS Max with two 12ah batteries had better get this done. With tool, drill bits, splitting tools, batteries, rock bar, etc my pack weighed over 70 lbs for the two mile hike out.
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One side of the rock was noticeably harder than the other, but even so drilling holes went much easier than I thought and took only 15 minutes
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Ready for action.
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Splitting the rock was just as easy as drilling the holes. Tap tap tap tap tap....
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It took a bit of working with the rock bar to finally get the slab to tip over. It was so heavy I couldnt budge it so I split it in half again. Getting the two halves moved into place was the hardest part yet. But I was able to dig them into place on the outside of the tread to help support the trail (and hopefully block motos from climbing up through here).
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Then it was a matter of knocking over the other half. The rock on this part was more decomposed so once it fell over I was able to knock a bunch off the edges. Was able to get it to an orientation that worked and then filled in all around it.
Finished product will ride much nicer now and hopefully not need regular maintenance to fix up the damaged edge.
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^thats some effort right there? The thing was too big to move with a digging bar, eh.
Stumbled upon this little build yesterday. Seems new. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...0b6d48547e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...a425139cdc.jpg
^^ Yeah it wasn't the best rock bar for heavy work. It's a collapsible Trail boss rock bar. Not super long and comes in three sections. More flex than I'd like. But I wasn't going to carry a full rock bar 2 miles in. My pack already weighed over 70 lbs with the roto hammer and other tools.
Went back out one more day last week. Worked my way up from bottom to top on one of our other tech trails, touching up dirt work, cleaning drains and adding a couple new ones.
We built a new line on this section a few months ago. Original line was next to the big boulder on the right. New line is up next to the boulder on the left. There is less room than there looks in the pic.
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Looking up from below. The runout for both lines is this rut. The original and higher lines drop in right next to each other.
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After. No more rut...for a few months.
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Moved further up. Tread here was getting cupped pretty deep with a rut forming. I added a drain, shaved down the edges and filled in the middle to raise the tread back up.
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This turn was pretty off camber and some riders were sliding down into the inside edge. I shaved down the outside to reduce the camber.
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This drop used to be to flat. I built up a lip a few years ago, and usually build it up a few more inches each year. Doesn't affect anyone who hits this with speed. But for people like me who hit it slower the lip makes it a lot smoother.
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I add some material to this berm after every big storm using whatever material washes down off the cheater line above it.
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Added dirt back to the ramp up onto this rock. It's a 3-4 ft drop off the end of the rock
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And, at the top of the trail I cleaned up the tread some. Rut was forming on the line next to the rock.
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It's one of those where building an up n over with rock would work, but probably 80% of riders wouldn't use it and the erosion would continue. But that's where I wouldn't give a shit. Ride the rock line or deal with the shit line