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Thanks all. The acknowledgement of the plight has me now wondering if i broke some unspoken rule about not bitching about it.
There is this other anxiety that I am ruining these years by wallowing like this but some days it's just a weight on my chest. I could definitely use some professional help to lean on but just never get around to it.
Might be an unspoken rule, but it needs to be broken. I'm sure many of us have or are currently experiencing some of those things to some extent. I appreciate your post and I found it validating and thought provoking. I'm 2 months in with kid #2, so just getting my feet wet!
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Yep, it sucks out loud sometimes, especially as a dad. Doing well at parenting often means your priorities are last, which can feel shitty and ultimately alters your own trajectory.
Only recently did I come out of a bit of depression as I had years of back rehab and time crunch that kept me from the things I enjoyed. It's fucking hard sometimes.
Oh man, that’s rough. Adding a second kid was more like 5X the effort. And now they fight and bicker constantly which adds this ever-present thrum that makes it impossible to focus if we’re all trying to do our own thing around the house. They could fight if the house was burning down around them.Quote:
Originally Posted by waveshello
I knew it was going to be a rough ride when we brought daughter #2 home from the hospital and I was changing her diaper when daughter #1 (2 years old at the time and a daddy’s girl) walked into the room and burst into tears when she saw another kid getting my attention. Stage set.
Hang in there.
Are there any consequences for this nonstop fighting? That would drive me nuts.Quote:
Originally Posted by bio-smear
I’d like to say it gets better. But having friends with two girls it gets nasty in the teen years. Two boys ain’t nearly as bad.
Vibes.
Parenting today is tougher than it was previously, now that it is typical for both parents to work full time and the kids are basically raised by someone else. I'm fortunate enough to be able to watch my two kids two of the weekdays, so they are only in day care three days a week. The kids, both girls, and same age difference as yours but younger (not school age yet), are pretty good with me. But mom works long hours and when she comes home, the fighting and neediness starts.
Girls may be tough to raise but boys just end up in jail/prison, drug addicted, and depressed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Core Shot
The thing you bring to parenting is yourself, so make sure you’re working on you and do what you need to make sure you’re bringing something positive to the table.
There are dark times, indeed. From my internet perch I wonder if there is some source of conflict/pressure/stress that you might be able to better manage. Kids tend to be a little bit (not perfectly) reflective of their environment. My ex is a high conflict person, and I notice that when they’ve spent extra time with her it takes a couple days to pull that back out of their system until the volume is turned back down to a reasonable level. And you can’t effectively manage conflict with conflict…took me 16 years of parenting to really figure that out and I’m still a hack at it, but I get it right every once in a while and that sure feels good.
Also, kids sure do come and go…. At this point if one of them disappears a bit and goes dark I’ll make sure I talk to them and offer support, but I don’t stress it much, I just wait a few weeks.
Some recent proud dad moments, with all three kids getting the ski bug again: my 16yo doing ski patrol training with the college kids and turning her mediocre GPA into all A’s and B’s, my 15yo geeking out on gear and tuning (and becoming a high end ski valet for our family outings) and generally being a place of help and good humor and leading me to powder stashes he’s found deep in the trees, and my 12yo working hard on her technique and offering support and guidance to my beginner fiancé while she begins to come into her own a little bit with basketball and quietly gets better grades than the other two.
That hasn't been my experience at all. My daughters have never fought. Now 16 and 18, they are pretty close but give each other space. OTOH I have friends with boys who tear each other up physically well into the teen years. So I would say it has more to do with the temperaments of the individual kids than boys or girls.Quote:
Originally Posted by Core Shot
I'm calling bs on that. It's human nature, male or female, for two individuals to duke it out to claim alpha. Girls have a reputation for being tough teenagers but they go through puberty years earlier than boys, and they even go through puberty earlier today than girls 40 years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahman
Let’s not get into the alpha myth BS. Look up the original wolf study - it only applies under captivity and is greatly misunderstood.
Bio - it does get better. Once your youngest turns 7 (and especially 8) a lot of things get so much easier. That’s been my experience (with three kids, 2 girls) and many of my friends with kids agree.
Similar issue with the competition for time and attention.
Might seem obvious but 15 mins of unstructured one on one time can help a lot.
Kids also have biological changes in their brain that affect how they can or cannot deal with emotions, etc that are worth taking a second to understand as a parent.
No idea whether it holds as a general rule, but my youngest is now 8 and it has been much easier recently.Quote:
Originally Posted by TahoeJ
I can absolutely relate to a lot of what bio-smear is saying. Would also highly recommend seeking help if you’re dealing with depression. I really struggled after our second was born, and while I wouldn’t claim that everything became sunshine and lollipops all the time, getting some treatment made things noticeably more manageable.
I don't know anything about alpha studies, but if two siblings of similar age, regardless of gender, have never fought, to me, that would be a sign of some kind of brain disorder. When my 2 year old is doing what 2 year olds do and explores boundaries, and the 4 year old is playing with a toy, the 2 year old walks over and grabs said toy, it is totally normal for there to be conflict. I would be weirded out if my 4 year old's response was to just walk away and grab another toy.Quote:
Originally Posted by TahoeJ
Something that may factor in is that wife and I have worked remotely for years, well before covid. A lot of work and child rearing happened while working from home. There was never (or seldom) an opportunity to miss anyone or get a breath. I really believe it is important to make solo time for yourself but walking out the door to do that while the wife juggles the kids and says "have fun" and "how do i make a frozen pizza again?" while looking at you with a creased brow and angry quivering lip...nah.
My wife and I are very different personalities. She grew up in a very conflict-averse household with mousey parents who are afraid of everything in the world. Her dad is very chill and kind, a gentle person. Her mom is super OCD and anxiety-ridden. But they never fought or raised their voices because mom was the boss. My wife kinda found this equilibrium in her personality, but she is very good with calm parenting.
I, on the other hand, watched my parents fight and yell all the time. We were spanked. I don't think I'm worse off for it, but it does mean there's no barrier to escalation and conflict doesn't bowl me over. This has been a source of conflict and disagreement between us in parenting. Her consequences are basically laughed at by the girls.
Oh well, this isn't the Tammy Wynette thread.
One thing that I'm learning is important, and I have watched my best friend do this with his 3 girls, is to do activities with them individually. Take one on a mission, then later take another on a trip or for a ski. It is like night and day in terms of quality time spent and they don't object to every single thing or burst into tears at perceived inequalities.
I should be worrying about fun stuff like building my airplane fuel trailer or editing vids or mounting skis. This has been a nice outlet though, I appreciate everyone who read and replied.
We've worked full time remote for years. We hit a point where there was no family, no daycare availability, and the wife took an extended leave of absence. But I was still home in the house.Quote:
Originally Posted by altasnob
They're in kindergarten and first grade now, and it's the most amazing thing to ever happen to me. But suffocation is now replaced by guilt.
Feelings, what are they good for?
I like the separation time.
Being one on one brings them out. And bonds with dad better.
You got this.
So good. It’s great to hear that he is healthy and progressing so well. It’s going to be buckets of fun at your house when he’s crawling before six months.Quote:
Originally Posted by snapt
Vibes to all of the dads going through it. My wife and I put our own well being aside to get through the end of the year and it has come to bite us in the ass. When we had more time in the new year we used it for the things we had putting off and were just as busy as ever. We have really been trying to meet each other’s needs and help when we can. And just as important has been giving each other an hour of space at the end of the day. We had stopped going on dates with the baby because he had been babbling so much at restaurants, what a mistake. Going out for a bottle of wine and some food to share is a simple thing we can’t miss. It’s even more fun now that baby is willing to try any food we give him.
We got into it about two weeks ago, no yelling but definitely our first fight in a while. The baby woke up three times that night when usually he sleeps 9 hours. We have been showering him with love since then and recommitted to being a unified front when around him. He loves us as much as ever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bio-smear
Your post sort of resonates. I pop into this thread occasionally, and I don't really like how this thread makes me feel. All these above average outdoorsy parents doing absolutely everything possible for the perfect outcome on their special little ones. I know that is not really the goal of the thread, and I don't really like to feel that way. I also know that none of the kids in this thread are really all that special in the grand scheme of things, even though I feel like mine are special, and you feel like yours are special, and so on for all the parents of the 7 billion of us that are on the planet.
I have had similar issues with sleep in the past, where I stay up too late in the evening to get stuff done around the house or in the garage, and then I'm a zombie the next day or week. Work performance occasionally suffers. My wife and I similarly feel exhausted much of the time, mainly because we are. The two kids take it out of you. And the fight all the fuckin time. Little contrarians with each other. I got pissed at them Saturday and made them each write 25 times, "being mean to my sister makes me feel terrible."
I certainly don't purport to have it figured out, but I think what is important to remember is there are always ups and downs, and they are all relative to each other. That means, there are no good times without a time of pain or suffering or struggle. It just isn't possible. I've got to focus on the good stuff. My hobbies have definitely suffered lately (as my driveway full of old german cars will attest to), and my wife and I fight a lot, mainly as a result of having different philosophies on parenting which makes setting a path difficult. On the filp side, my boy scored 2 goals in his squirt hockey game (i'm the coach), and even better, he had a beautiful pass to another kid for a great assist!. Then they fought at the park and were yelling and screaming at each other while I hunted around the soccer field for the dog shit to pick up.
Ups and downs mang, can't have one without the other. Enjoy the good, get through the bad.
Social media, delete that fuckin shit. All you will see is a bunch of people showing off how good they are, or how they are making calculated good decisions for their special little ones. Fuck that shit. Just makes you feel bad. Instagram, gone, twitter, gone, Facebook (only for used car parts etc...)
Anyway, blah blah blah, its ok to feel how you feel. Know that you are in the same boat as millions of others, and it's a struggle for all of us. Recognize and enjoy the good times.
Edit. Carve out some time for yourself. I love my adult league hockey few cause it's a guaranteed 2 hours with no kids, no dogs, no wife. It's me and my friends once a week for 2 hours.
This disclaimer should be at the front of all of your posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by altasnob
Lol^^^
I'd also say being realistic with our kids has been a huge help. They already understand we screw things up, we forget things and sometimes our emotions are high and we say things we apologize for later. There's a ginormous amount of pressure to be perfect parents and never crack it open in front of the kids, but we're raising adults, not kids, so they need to see what functional (not made up perfect) adults do and act like and understand what goes into it.
My kids fight like any bored siblings fight, but we mostly don't hear much as they've come to find the the screaming/physical fights get nothing but punishment, so what's the point. Most of it is just bored kids pushing buttons anyhow.
Yeah it sure as hell isn’t always unicorns and dandelions..
-Dealing with “leaps” where your kid who took 2.5 hour naps and slept 7pm-7am everyday suddenly isn’t sleeping at all and is screaming from under her door.
- balancing hobbies, time with the wife, work, and time the little. Sometimes it gets out whack which causes arguments, stress, etc.
I think it comes down to recognizing what levers are in your control and which ones aren’t then optimizing the things which you can influence.
At least that’s my hot take.. but who the hell knows girl #2 is inbound this month so all likely will go to hell for a bit.
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^^^ agreed, and while i might gripe, this is the right place for this discussion, so thanks for the thread.