Electric Bike Thread

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Originally Posted by Redsmurfer

Riding in Mid Pen districts land is poaching if you are not disabled, but they do allow exceptions, maybe ebiker's should see if you can get that designation and be legal (no single track though). Cannot be any harder then getting a handicap parking sticker.

I think the machines are amazing technology and I admit I may be destined to own one but after reading comments on the new trail management plans in the Bay Area by hiker groups I am more convinced that these groups are generally crazy and pretty well organized. Their groups are constantly complaining about biker speed and impact as well as tirelessly advocating for their ban from single track trails (disturbs their nature experience,plus bikers have no soul you know). They show up to board meetings and are constantly in land managers ears. How are ebikes going to help this? I think ebikes are going to result in a full stop in the effort to gain more single track mtb access in the Bay area, speed and increased trail use will be the primary weapons used in this battle. They could force MMWD, EBRPD, and Mid Penn to do extensive environmental review for any trail use changes that will involve multiple state and federal agencies. I am sure the RWQCB would love to weigh in and try and use water quality issues to restrict bike access. Do not forget there are federal and state endangered species in those areas, so USFWS gets to put in their two cents as well (though Trump is trying to cut their balls off right now). Any non-fire road trails we do get will likely have to be "multi-user" ie 6 feet wide because of increased speed and use. Welcome to our new world, yeah ebikes!!

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I have a tough time believing there are places in the US that are more hostile to MTB than the Bay Area. It is truly remarkable how well organized, passionate, and widspread the opposition to MTB access is there. I had no idea how bad it actually was until i moved up to the PNW, which is probably at the other end of the spectrum with MTB access.

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Originally Posted by californiagrown

I have a tough time believing there are places in the US that are more hostile to MTB than the Bay Area. It is truly remarkable how well organized, passionate, and widspread the opposition to MTB access is there. I had no idea how bad it actually was until i moved up to the PNW, which is probably at the other end of the spectrum with MTB access.

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Pretty much. Marin, the home of mountain biking and yet it's basically illegal to do so.

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Quote Originally Posted by TahoeJ View Post
You guys are talking about Tahoe and the Flume trail like that's the trail everyone wants to ride. lol...

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When you are in Tahoe for a conference at Squaw and have 1 day to ride something that was the easiest choice.

Again, it was fun and all that.

When I was in Whistler for a similar conference we hooked up with some like minded folks and rode what was the closest and easiest trails to be found. No one can be a local wherever they are at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Not bunion

No one can be a local wherever they are at the moment.

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Have you met my friend Bunny?

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Originally Posted by Not bunion

When you are in Tahoe for a conference at Squaw and have 1 day to ride something that was the easiest choice.

Again, it was fun and all that.

When I was in Whistler for a similar conference we hooked up with some like minded folks and rode what was the closest and easiest trails to be found. No one can be a local wherever they are at the moment.

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Nothing wrong with Flume (the views are great) - that wasn't really my point. It's just not a trail that really comes to mind in the whole bike vs. e-bike debate going on.

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Originally Posted by skysos

Wow, awesome post. That is some great perspective.

This is all the more reason to consider and treat e-bike users as no different. More members = more power if it’s organized. Posts earlier in this thread suggest that all non e-bike riders should actively oppose e-bikes and that doesn’t sound like an effective strategy if e-bikes are going to capture a larger and larger share of new bike sales.

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No, this is why ebikes need to be their own user group. Emopeds are not mountain bikes.

Sometimes it might makes sense for real mountain bikes and emopeds to work together just like it does with other user groups but they are not the same and should not be lumped together.

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Originally Posted by TahoeJ

Nothing wrong with Flume (the views are great) - that wasn't really my point. It's just not a trail that really comes to mind in the whole bike vs. e-bike debate going on.

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Why not? Flume Trail Bikes rents e-bikes: https://flumetrailtahoe.com/bike-rentals/

I can't find a clear statement from Nevada State Parks but the TRT folks seem to think e-bikes are allowed in Spooner, including on the TRT south of Tunnel Creek: https://tahoerimtrail.org/stories/ne...-on-the-trail/

Seems like a perfect fit - there's a shuttle from Incline to Spooner, but you still have a 1000+ foot climb at altitude to Marlette Lake. An e-bike makes that within reach of your average vacationer looking for something to do other than water skiing and parasailing.

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Originally Posted by teledad

Why not? Flume Trail Bikes rents e-bikes: https://flumetrailtahoe.com/bike-rentals/

I can't find a clear statement from Nevada State Parks but the TRT folks seem to think e-bikes are allowed in Spooner, including on the TRT south of Tunnel Creek: https://tahoerimtrail.org/stories/ne...-on-the-trail/

Seems like a perfect fit - there's a shuttle from Incline to Spooner, but you still have a 1000+ foot climb at altitude to Marlette Lake. An e-bike makes that within reach of your average vacationer looking for something to do other than water skiing and parasailing.

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My point exactly - no one really gives a shit if e-bikes are going to run every other day on one of the few bike limited trails in Tahoe that tends to be crowded with tourists anyway. No one is concerned about that.

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Originally Posted by TahoeJ

My point exactly - no one really gives a shit if e-bikes are going to run every other day on one of the few bike limited trails in Tahoe that tends to be crowded with tourists anyway. No one is concerned about that.

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I can tell you that I am not concerned. If they are allowed that is wonderful.

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Originally Posted by mtngirl79

No, this is why ebikes need to be their own user group. Emopeds are not mountain bikes.

Sometimes it might makes sense for real mountain bikes and emopeds to work together just like it does with other user groups but they are not the same and should not be lumped together.

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I think history will prove you wrong, but for now we will have to agree to disagree.

Here’s why: As more non-e riders pick up e-bikes the first thing that happens is that you have mixed groups riding around together as groups of riding friends and families tend to stick together. Then how are you going to deal with the dilemma when you have to oppose your riding partners? Thats what happened with the snowboarding / skiing debate in the 90’s. It’s a social activity for a lot of people and that’s a strong force.

^^so far that’s been the case

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Originally Posted by skysos

I think history will prove you wrong, but for now we will have to agree to disagree.

Here’s why: As more non-e riders pick up e-bikes the first thing that happens is that you have mixed groups riding around together as groups of riding friends and families tend to stick together. Then how are you going to deal with the dilemma when you have to oppose your riding partners? Thats what happened with the snowboarding / skiing debate in the 90’s. It’s a social activity for a lot of people and that’s a strong force.

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Originally Posted by grinch

^^so far that’s been the case

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And they are welcome to ride together as a family on trails other than those designated as non-motorized.

Your skier/snowboarder example is only apt if the snowboards had motors on them for propulsion and were trying to be used within the resort/ski area.

A more apt example would be crosscountry skiers inviting family members with snow machines onto a trail system designated as non-motorized...because family.
[emoji849]
My GOD! Think of the children! How will they ever learn true family values or get to spend time in nature with family unless there are motorized vehicles involved. Think of the family! Why? God! Why? Why do you hate families!? Family is such a powerful force for eMopeds! You're tearing me apart, Lisa!

[emoji849]

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Originally Posted by reckless toboggan

And they are welcome to ride together as a family on trails other than those designated as non-motorized.

Your skier/snowboarder example is only apt if the snowboards had motors on them for propulsion and were trying to be used within the resort/ski area.

A more apt example would be crosscountry skiers inviting family members with snow machines onto a trail system designated as non-motorized...because family.
[emoji849]
My GOD! Think of the children! How will they ever learn true family values or get to spend time in nature with family unless there are motorized vehicles involved. Think of the family! Why? God! Why? Why do you hate families!? Family is such a powerful force for eMopeds! You're tearing me apart, Lisa!

[emoji849]

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Who’s that other guy that’s prone to “truthful hyperbole”? Your metaphor is weak. Equating an ebike with a sled? Brilliant

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Originally Posted by grinch

Who’s that other guy that’s prone to “truthful hyperbole”? Your metaphor is weak. Equating an ebike with a sled? Brilliant

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Well, obviously the motorized cross country ski eMachine will be regulated to a top speed of only about 10 or 15mph, so that they are only slightly faster than a non-motorized xc skier. At first.

These motorized cross country ski eMachines would only be used by the elderly, disabled, or injured.

You know, so families could cross country ski together. Think of the families!

The motorized cross country ski eMachines should definitely be allowed on all cross country ski trails, because it's practically the exact same sport.

It doesn't matter if the motorized cross country ski eMachines can easily and undetectably be modified in about 30 seconds on a website to generate 500w of power. They are restricted, and should be allowed on all xc ski trails, even those which are designated non-motorized. And the non-motorized xc skiers will welcome us with open arms! As heros! We are giving them their freedom! Mission Accomplished!

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Originally Posted by reckless toboggan

Well, obviously the motorized cross country ski eMachine will be regulated to a top speed of only about 10 or 15mph, so that they are only slightly faster than a non-motorized xc skier. At first.

These motorized cross country ski eMachines would only be used by the elderly, disabled, or injured.

You know, so families could cross country ski together. Think of the families!

The motorized cross country ski eMachines should definitely be allowed on all cross country ski trails, because it's practically the exact same sport.

It doesn't matter if the motorized cross country ski eMachines can easily and undetectably be modified in about 30 seconds on a website to generate 500w of power. They are restricted, and should be allowed on all xc ski trails, even those which are designated non-motorized. And the non-motorized xc skiers will welcome us with open arms! As heros! We are giving them their freedom! Mission Accomplished!

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Drink up man. Your science is tight!

I stopped in a bike shop in Sydney AU today and checked out the Trek Powerfly 7. Looks really nice with the integrated battery, good components, and 2.8” tires with the Bosch motor at a good price point. Some people have asked me what they should look at and I would definitely put that on the list.

I also had a long talk with them about e-bike trail use issues here (Australia). They looked at me like I was crazy. They can go anywhere a bike can go and the idea that pedal assist e-bikes would be classified differently was something that didn’t seem to make sense to them. But they weren’t surprised it was an issue in the USA (ha ha?)

Needless to point out that AU is a different continent.

If that is how they choose to regulate, that is a choice that has been made.

When it is actually discussed and decided here instead of just assumed then that will also be the case.

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Originally Posted by skysos

I also had a long talk with them about e-bike trail use issues here (Australia). They looked at me like I was crazy. They can go anywhere a bike can go and the idea that pedal assist e-bikes would be classified differently was something that didn’t seem to make sense to them. But they weren’t surprised it was an issue in the USA (ha ha?)

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You mean the country that still doesn't allow certain people to buy alcohol based on their ethnic background? Yeah, they probably shouldn't be shaming the US for policy decisions...

(don't get me wrong, I spent several months in Australia and loved it, just saying...)

^^^ Aborigines can't buy booze there? I had no idea.

@skysos Please enlighten me on this question. Does AU have non-motorized areas?

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Originally Posted by californiagrown

I have a tough time believing there are places in the US that are more hostile to MTB than the Bay Area. It is truly remarkable how well organized, passionate, and widspread the opposition to MTB access is there. I had no idea how bad it actually was until i moved up to the PNW, which is probably at the other end of the spectrum with MTB access.

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Oh come on, the bay area is the land of laid back people and tolerance, they were the first to give everyone trophies...surely they can accept bikes on trails.:rolleyes2 Yet another reason to avoid that shithole.

To be fair, “Bay area” is pretty vague. Everyone gets along fine here in Sonoma / the north bay, and same deal with trails (mostly) down in Santa Cruz. There’s a lot of differing opinions as to what / where the Bay Area actually encompasses.

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Originally Posted by Not bunion

^^^ Aborigines can't buy booze there? I had no idea.

@skysos Please enlighten me on this question. Does AU have non-motorized areas?

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I wish I could answer this but all I can tell you is that from what I’ve seen public land tends to be walking trails only, or anything goes with 4wd roads. There are mtn bike parks that are quite large, but I see a lot of no bike signs around everywhere in the many national parks. I see what you are after though...probably not much reason for conflict without our complicated multi-use public lands situation.

There are also things that would drive all of us crazy like $2,500 fines for riding without a helmet, and a minimum fine of $2,200 for possessing a rabbit in Queensland, which can go up to $44,000. So make sure to leave your rabbits stateside and bring your lid.

Get down and dirty with teh E

https://www.instagram.com/p/BmLEJZ_B...y=reddingpower

A helmet and no jeans. An Enewb

Proper eMoped fitness and attire (except for the helmet obvs).

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/46/11/ac/4...82eaa89326.jpg

Same picture from another angle...

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015...9584359926.jpg

One more angle of the same picture, just for clarity...

https://c7.alamy.com/comp/E8KB1W/flo...ter-E8KB1W.jpg