The fields weren't being picked today on the way in.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Viva
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The fields weren't being picked today on the way in.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Viva
That's actually a very nice soliloquy on New York, but I still fail to understand how it makes you an expert on this topic. If any thing, according to you, living in New York would make you even more ignorant about immigration issues because they fit in so seamlessly and smooth. Maybe you should live in a place where there have been problems, where the immigrants have been less well received.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane
I won't deny that most of Utah is whiter than white, but again, the city I live and work in is close to 40% Hispanic, the area I grew up in was less than 50% white. Still, I'm not claiming to be an expert here, just calling you out on your self-righteous attitude towards other posters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny Profane
All this for me to say that I don't necessarily disagree with you, just that your delivery was a little abrasive.;)
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...r/7e43644b.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by marshalolson
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...r/01f0bb5b.jpg
We should all jsut go back to Europe/Asia/Africa and let the Mexicans have what is theirs.
:tdo13:
no mexicans in northern utah or southern idaho....you know, no potatoes there. what would the mexicans do for a living?
They all moved to nyc.
man, some of you guys come off as fucking abrasive, to say the least.
as far as the Mexican population in the USA goes:
The USA was built by immigrants- all of you remember the "melting pot" unit in social studies, or what ever it is called now.
It is the fact that while our economy demands lower wage jobs that seemingly only Mexican immigrants can fill (debatable, btw) THE MAJORITY DO NOT PAY ANY FUCKING TAXES. I'm sure they would love to pay taxes, car insurance, health care bills, ect, but while they complain that they only make 5-6 $/hr- untaxed, and not paying "off the top" type bills, - they are not very bad off. Granted some of the labor is undesirable, But if you are going to march for equal rights and assimilation, then it also comes with the financially responsibility of every other tax payin' citizen. just wanted to clear that up.
and Benny, just because some of us live in Utah ( i do)
I see you claim to be from Downtown Saratoga Springs- I dont wanna hear another squeak outta you about that, "Fun City" BS Mr. The-August-place-to-be. For you that dont know, Saratoga Springs is one of the most high rolling (horse) tracks in the country. The city follows close suite.
Got this email at work today.
We can only dream!!
May 1 is the planned "Day without an Immigrant" boycott by illegal
immigrants here in the United States. They plan on boycotting work, thus
showing how many menial jobs they provide cheap labor for. They plan on
boycotting our stores, thus showing how much money they provide for the
economy.
I am fine with this tactic. I have one suggestion: Please also boycott
our hospitals, schools, jails, and highways.
Let us see what our health care system would be like without an overcrowded
emergency room full of illegal immigrants using it as a free clinic
to treat non-emergent ailments.
Let us see what it would be like to have people who the hospital actually
expects to pay for treatment. I wonder if the costs for health insurance
would drop.
Let us see what it would be like to reduce the size of our classrooms.
Let us see what it would be like to have to spend taxpayer dollars to teach
in English only.
Let us see if our schools test score averages increase.
Let us see what it would be like to not be victimized by an illegal
immigrant and then have to pay for the incarceration of that illegal
immigrant. The Los Angeles County jail system would be alleviated of
thousands of inmates. Those incarcerated might actually serve 100% of their
sentences rather than the 10% that they have been serving.
Let us see what our highways would be like. Let us see if traffic is
reduced without their presence.
Let us see if the number of unlicensed, uninsured, unqualified motorists
drops and the number of traffic collisions also drops proportionally. Maybe
our car insurance rates would see a decrease as a result.
Maybe the May 1st "Day Without an Immigrant" boycott should be encouraged
so the rest of the citizens can fully appreciate what benefits and burdens
illegal immigration creates.
Take it to Fox 'news', you fucking xenophobic moron. I can't believe there are living idiots who believe that drivel--then I remember that around half the country voted Bush in the past two elections, and it makes more sense. Ironic that you're supposedly worried about the state of education in the country--or maybe it's not ironic at all.
Hypatheically, (AND I MEAN IT!), what makes you so sure your way is the "right" way?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki
No agreeing with him, just stirring the pot. :FIREdevil
I'm sure beyond hypotheticals that immigration is a net gain to the U.S., just as it always has been. Education of children who will live in the U.S., foreign born or not, benefits our country. We should be spending more on them, not less.
I know that immigrant areas have less crime than economically comparable areas of mostly native born Americans.
I don't have information about immigrants representing the drain on health care that some claim them to be, but I'm extremely skeptical of what some are presenting as fact--and given that 1/3 of U.S. healthcare costs go to administrative expenses, I know what the real burden (competing insurance companies) is.
In short, I know that everything in that borderline racist diatribe is unmitigated bullshit, so I don't need to know that 'my' way is the right way, I just know what crap is when I step in it. Or when I read it on the internet.
I was going to quote-for-quote Dexters post to prove him a toolbag, but he pretty much proved that without my help. Benny and him should get a room. They could both sit in bed eating bon-bons and mushrooms all day together, while reflecting on the way life could be. That would be swell.
This year 10 million in ten years 20 million illegals!! This country is doomed!
Have any of you fools been to India or China? That's where we are headed!
B 11's, 5286 posts, you need a girlfriend!
If you'd pay attention you'd realize he has one.
Once again - it wasn't a boycott by "Illegals." It was organized by an Immigrant Rights Advocacy group for the immigrant community - that means mostly LEGALS.
...but I'm just farting in the wind here. Continue bloviating please.
Seems like they are only advocating Mexican immigration rights. Thats just not right.
I laught at this shit. Immigration only makes the rich richer in this country.. And you guys dont even have a beef with illegal immigration. I must be the poor man on the board.
personally i have no problem with the hispanic increase in my city. from what i see here they work harder than the white trash we have milking our welfare system....and we gained 2 great mexican restaurants in the past year; family operated, some of nicer people i've met. in a perfect world, yeah i wish everyone was "legal".
they tukkurjobs!
In protest of their protest, I'm boycotting Cinco de Mayo this Friday! I'll have a cheeseburger instead of burrito, Scotch over Tequila, and I'll yell "fuck you asshole" rather than "pendejo chingala".Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippster
I'll show the World that I mean business.
Hmmm carrying signs that say "AMNISTIA!" and declaring that nobody is an "illegal."Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippster
I watched the news yesterday and saw crowds waving the Mexican flag chanting "MEXICO! MEXICO! MEXICO! MEXICO! MEXICO!"
I saw some moron say "I don't believe that a human being can be illegal. We prefer to call them undocumented."
I don't doubt that many of the crowds were legal. I do doubt that most of them fully understand the issue. Many of the instigators of the demonstrations make it out to be a pure race issue, an issue where legals would be deported, or an issue of "retaking stolen lands" in order to motivate people to protest. Of course there are a few honest organizers that realize this is about fixing a system...
Yeah, but the Pilgrims did not need a visa, why should they?
fixing a system? Dont confuse everyone summit. This about neocons, racists etc.. lets keep the knee jerking in rythm.
Yeah, let's send them all home so that our food costs 50% more, no one can afford a nanny, and we can trash the environment somewhere else besides the US!
Opposition to immigration, legal or otherwise, is founded upon nothing but ignorance, xenophobia, and stupidity. Immigrants built this country and illegal immigrants OVERWHELMINGLY take up only the jobs that locals don't want. How many native born Americans do you think will be willing to make $6/hr picking avocados in the 110 degree heat of the Central Valley at harvest time? How many will be willing to take $400/wk in cash to watch my kid full-time so that my wife and I can both do our jobs?
No matter how big a fence we build, or how many laws we pass, immigrants will continue to enter the US due to the vast disparity in wages and living conditions in the US vs. their native countries. The only solution is to change the system to help manage this flow and to provide the non-criminals an eventual path to citizenship, or at least semi-legality. All of you people ranting and raving about what a danger these non-English speakers represent should open a history book sometime. You sound just like the xenophobic and racist idiots in the 1800s who opposed immigration from Catholic countries like Italy and Poland, instead of the upstanding (and hard working!) Preotestants from England and Germany.
I wonder why it is that there isn't much of an outcry over all of the illegal Chinese immigrants being smuggled into this country by the Triads? I guess it's passe' to be racist with East Asians, but it's still in vogue with those lazy Latinos.
They sounds like American citizens already.Quote:
Originally Posted by Summit
that always got me, you don't see many of european heritage waving an italian, german or irish flag (ok, bad example of the irish flag) everyday. don't believe i would have usa stickers or multiple flags on my property if moved to another country.Quote:
Originally Posted by Summit
Cant we just uphold the law? Im all for fixing the system, i stood in those long immigration lines. But illegal is illegal. I want law and order. So long as they are legal, you can bring a billion chinese over here if you like. But when we have millions of undocumented people over here, it is a compromise of the system that we all rely on. This country can only grow at a measured pace, it sounds like you all want people sleeping in the parks, oh, wait a minute they already do.
You want your cheap burritos, your cheap childcare, your cheap lettuce, but God forbid we shop at Walmart. wait a minute, Walmart hires all the illegals? Im confused again.
.
Don't forget the Micks- we didn't want those fuckers, either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin Woodsman
I'll start advocating upholding the law w/r/t illegal immigration as soon as you stop exceeding the speed limit, drinking before you're 21, or taking the occasional bong hit. Those "offenses" are all on the same level of danger to the US. Actually, since immigration is a tremendous net benefit to the US, they really shouldn't be compared.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cono Este
We've had this debate before:
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http://www.immivasion.us/artwork/kt/kt_immivasion_w.jpg
http://www.southerncouncil.org/image..._billboard.jpg
I agree, immigration has long fueled our economy and our growth, no question about that. We need it.
But my point, is that undocumented people can operate outside the law. legal immigration is a gurantee so to speak, that we cannot bring harm to one another without accountability. If i take a few bong hits and run over your dog, you wil lbe able to track me down and beat my ass. A person who was not born here, has a fruadulent ss card and Drivers Liscense, can pretty much play bumber cars on any freeway without consequence to himself. I have seen it happen.
I have spent about 10 yrs of my life in Latin America, am fluent in spanish, and my step mother is chilean. Ive done wonderful things for Mexicans that have worked for me. But at the same time I have seen how a failure of our giv;t to uphold the law can bring great loss to its citizens. I am one of them.
Good show, PTD.
Issue Guide for the Complete Idiot Who Still Thinks This Is About Race:
1. Nobody has a problem with legal immigrants from Mexico or anywhere else.
2. Playing the race card is a shoddy and dishonest debate technique used by people who either do not understand the issue or are too stupid to make a cogent argument (or both).
3. People have a problem with people who broke US law to enter the country. The only reason that most of these illegal aliens are from Mexico is because we share a land border with Mexico.
Now that I disagree with. I see TONS of Irish, Italian, Jamaican...whatever t-shirts, stickers, flags etc. all the time. People have cultural "tags" everywhere. They're proud of their heritage...so what?Quote:
Originally Posted by cinnepa
Maybe you wouldn't have USA stickers on your stuff if you lived in the countries listed above, but I'm sure people wouldn't get all freaky on you if you did. Maybe they'd think it was a bit tacky, but I doubt they'd feel all defensive and all.
Maybe I'm naive? But that's my feeling...
Sprite
of course not, just read the posts on this thread :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Summit
Quote:
Dear President Bush:
I'm about to plan a little trip with my family and extended family, and I would like to ask you to assist me.
I'm going to walk across the border from the U.S. into Mexico, and I need to make a few arrangements. I know you can help with this.
I plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration quotas and laws. I'm sure they handle those things the same way you do here.
So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Vicente Fox, that I'm on my way over? Please let him know that I will be expecting the following:
1. Free medical care for my entire family.
2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might need, whether I use them or not.
3. All government forms need to be printed in English.
4. I want my kids to be taught by English-speaking teachers.
5. Schools need to include classes on American culture and history.
6. I want my kids to see the American flag flying on the top of the flag pole at their school with the Mexican flag flying lower down.
7. Please plan to feed my kids at school for both breakfast and lunch.
8. I will need a local Mexican driver's license so I can get easy access to government services.
9. I do not plan to have any car insurance, and I won't make any effort to learn local traffic laws.
10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo from Pres. Fox to leave me alone, please be sure that all police officers speak English.
11. I plan to fly the U.S. flag from my house top, put flag decals on my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any complaints or negative comments from the locals.
12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, and don't enforce any labor laws or tax laws.
13. Please tell all the people in the country to be extremely nice and never say a critical word about me, or about the strain I might place on the economy.
14. Eventually I want to be able to vote and have all election materials and notices sent to me in English with Spanish as a second language..
I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things for all the people who come to the U.S. from Mexico.
I am sure that Pres. Fox won't mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely. However, if he gives you any trouble, just invite him to go quail hunting with your V.P.
That's what I'm talking about!
Sprite
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cono Este
I'm glad you are familiar with the territory. Given that familiarity, it's simply incomprehensible to me that you'd rather "enforce the laws on the books" than effect a fundamental reform of this broken system in order to address the very problems you've identified. A simple reading of the existing laws would imply that we should deport the 12 million illegals in this country. Surely you don't think that's the answer, do you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cono Este
The people who get the most press on this issue see the problem as being illegal immigration. That's just a symptom of the disarity in wages and incomes between the US and Mexico. Illegal immigration will continue as long as that disparity exists, no matter how high you build a fence, or how many troops are stationed on the border. The real problem is that the illegals are incentivized to remain in the shadow economy and avoid any potential interaction with govt (drivers licenses, insurance, etc...) b/c of the way the curent system is set up. That's why you have people falling through the cracks and leaving in this undocumentable shadow world.
Fix the system, and you fix the problem.
But how?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin Woodsman
:confused:
Sprite
cj001f - Surely you can make a solid generalization that everyone who wants to stop illegal border crossing is just a stupid racist. :tdo13: :rolleyes2
Very Niave... displaying the American flag while traveling is a good way to catch a lot of shit (even before or current administration).Quote:
Originally Posted by snowsprite
LIVING in another country and flying the colors high is a good way to get yourself in trouble most places (unless you live on a military installation).
The sad thing is that your question is EXACTLY what this debate should be about. Unfortunately, it has morphed into "send them home" vs. everything else. I don't claim to have all the answers, but two things should be clear to every sentient individual in this country:Quote:
Originally Posted by snowsprite
1) The system is broken and needs to be fixed
2) Sending 12 million people home, as the law would have it, is impractical, inhumane, and economic suicide for the US.
Really? If this country was being swamped by illegal immigrants from England, Ireland, and Australia, do you honestly believe there would be as much of an outcry as there is now? Talk about being intellectually shoddy and dishonest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Summit
"AMNISTIA AMNISTIA AMNISTIA NOBODY IS ILLEGAL!"
Let's make citizens of our country out of people whose first action showed they have no respect for the laws of the land.
In the 80s people questioned the Reagan amnesty. "If we show that we will eventually reward citizenship to those who skip the proper channels and break the law... what kind of message does that send? COME ON OVER!!!!!!"
And surprise surprise susrprise the illegal alien problem bloomed exponentially.
I guarantee you there was a disparity between Mexico and the USA and a demand for cheap labor LONG before the 80s ;)
You claim the disparity between Mexico & US is the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin Woodsman
How do you propose that we fix Mexico short of simply allowing unchecked immigration until everything balances?
And why do those fleeing Mexico because it "sucks" then fly Mexican flags and chant "MEXICO!"???
If Mexico has a problem, try to fix it.... Maybe that is why Mexico is restrictive of personal firearm ownership... there might be a REVOLUTION by its populace trying to fix their broken system! I have to say I was optomistic when Fox defeated PRI but he has shown himself to be more of the corrupt status quo.
I would like to see a "10 best" proposals for fixing the problem. I am not being facetious...I'm really ignorant as far as following what is being said and proposed. Has anyone started actually talking about possible solutions? Is anyone actually making any sense?
I'm all ears!
Sprite
No because this faux debate is about distracting people from other more pressing issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by snowsprite