How Much Risk Is Too Much Risk in Extreme Sports?

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Originally Posted by old goat

Not suggesting chastising anyone.

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Now it sounds like you're suggesting that Le TRG waits for suggestion. You're not suggesting that, are you? Cause no way I'm falling for that. If there are 3 choices we're gonna pick one and be a dick about it.

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Just that if there are people who love you, you might want to take their feelings into consideration when taking on risk. If no one loves you, have at it. (I'm not referring to any particular you.)

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Those considerations were partly responsible for driving me to a more devout form of realism, the acceptance of mortality and all that. So I'm on board, but as you and Toast have implied, there's a knee in the consequences vs. skills curve that often keeps death out of the likely outcomes as other limiting factors come in.

Less so if death is highly probable in the short term anyway. My reward/risk ratio bottomed out with an on-sight huck of a blind cliff with a challenging entry on the shouted word of a guy I barely knew that the landing looked good. It worked out, but the decision itself scared me straight: I had to stop trusting my emotional sense of fear to keep me safe--and what's the point of a blind huck anyway? Way less flow state that way.

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Originally Posted by old goat

I have yet to see anyone in this thread talk about anyone other than themselves--no mention of partners, parents, children, friends, people you owe money to. Not that I'm surprised.

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I do realize that you probably have me on ignore and will not be able to read this post, nor the one that I wrote earlier:

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Originally Posted by garyfromterrace

Over the years our tolerance for risk changes. I used to ski "fall you die" lines and couloirs. Not no more. Not just because I've got a wife, kids and grandkids who would miss me, but because my risk tolerance has changed as has my physical and mental ability to actually ski that shit without falling and dying.

How much risk it too much risk? IMO a personal choice certainly, but putting other people in mortal danger because of the shameless pursuit of self promotion, well I call bullshit. Tough conundrum though - is it fair to leave children behind without a parent because your chosen profession has a high probability of death? Should a sponsored base jumper quit his profession because he has kids? A big mountain skier? A fireman? A logger? Don't know the answer, but I'm sure some of you smart folk do.

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Again, understandable if you missed my post, I mean shit - there's only about six people that post on the board that I don't have on ignore..

Do you guys miss me? holy shit this is stale.

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Originally Posted by garyfromterrace

I do realize that you probably have me on ignore and will not be able to read this post, nor the one that I wrote earlier:



Again, understandable if you missed my post, I mean shit - there's only about six people that post on the board that I don't have on ignore..

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I don't have you on ignore, I apologize for not remembering your post. Obviously you and probably other people have mentioned considering loved ones/dependents.

As far as partners, a lot depends on which came first--the partner or the risk taking. Usually the risk taking came first so presumably the partner is willing to accept it. There is a section in Free Solo where his now-wife then-GF talks about this.

This is interesting to me: it's scientifically proven that the less expertise you have at something the less you understand of risk. That impacts a lot of this. Add in the natural risk taking imbedded in the young adult brain development process, plus the "risky shift" - the documentation that groups presented with risk will accept more than an individual (see Steven's Pass), and you have kind of a perfect storm for young adults.

As we get older we get more experience, our brains mature, and we are often with smaller peer groups.

As for myself, I have had an odd relationship with risk. Generally I ended up with groups doing activities - skiing, biking, canyoneering, climbing, that were purposely pushing right to the edge. People one connection away from me died. That risk was understood. Within this world my role always seemed to be a moderator - as in finding and mitigating the sharpest risk points. I had no fear during the activity, just caution. As an aside, the fear would come at night, when the lights were off and the quiet came. That was interesting.

And then my wife got pregnant, and I became even more that way - still on the edge, but leaning away from it.

And then our kid was stillborn. Devastated is an understatement. And then this happened - I distinctly remember a mtn bike downhill a short time after that, when I realized mid-ride that the fear and caution were both completely gone. Both during the day and at night - gone. It felt amazing and shocking. Absolutely no limiter. That stayed for quite some time. I think it was more about living life to the fullest for our lost son that never had a chance to be alive than about any nihilistic stuff. That was what was in my head as I flew down that downhill, anyway. It's stayed with me ever since, but it's more in the background now.

And yeah, I feel a HUGE amount of responsibility to my family to come home in one piece. And I WANT to. So that modifies things. I also really, really like being alive, so I make decisions with that in mind. But if I'm honest with myself, there are still times I'm at risk. I like to think it's similar risk to being in a car during the road trip to get there in back. Not sure that's true.

And it feels like what governs my behavior most these days is a desire not to get hurt and lose time to injury, so that's always part of the mental equation. And I'm not sure if I'm good or bad at that kind of math.

There is a line to me where I think risk is too much, where I or someone else has put their friends and family in too much jeopardy of being devastated by their loss. I don't think I have any kind of handle, however, on where that line is.

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Originally Posted by buttahflake

Do you guys miss me? holy shit this is stale.

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Fuck off attention whore.

I've stepped it back because I know my limits as I age. My concern is more about my kids than me. They're 20something boys and they push the envelope at times. I've schooled them to best of my abilities, but as we know there is inherent risks in what we do no matter how calculated we try to be.

I don't like bc skiing with them because I'm so concerned. I actually have to mentally prepare to do something like that with them as opposed to going with friends. It almost not enjoyable unless it's a spring bomber snowpack. Even then, warming is a concern.

I certainly found my emotions having kids. Those that don't have kids have no clue what it's like.

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Originally Posted by garyfromterrace

Fuck off attention whore.

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You quoted yourself, you are so dumb.

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Originally Posted by garyfromterrace

Fuck off attention whore.

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Please stop quoting.

Don't feed the trolls people!

Even if no one loves you or depends on you--consider disability insurance. If you can get it.

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Originally Posted by old goat

Even if no one loves you or depends on you--consider disability insurance. If you can get it.

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This. I think I spend a stupid amount on disability insurance. It is my rationalization to keep playing.

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Originally Posted by old goat

Even if no one loves you or depends on you--consider disability insurance. If you can get it.

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Just get specific occupation coverage if you don’t want to learn new skills for a shitty job.

Reminds me to have my wife cancel her policy soon. She doesn’t do that occupation anymore.

Isn’t gofundme ski bum disability insurance?

Alot of great riders have come out of Canada cuz of the universal hc

Can’t believe this thread has gone 7 pages. Risk is and always will be so different from person to person


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Originally Posted by ski whore

Can’t believe this thread has gone 7 pages. Risk is and always will be so different from person to person


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But it makes sense to discuss it and perhaps see different viewpoints on things.

If you get seriously hurt and spend weeks in a hospital and a year or two in recovery, or die, IMO that's too much risk. If you are constantly getting hurt - small or big - you are making bad choices and/or probably don't have the skills you think you do, dial it back. I think that was me and most people in their early twenties. Peer pressure and Kodak courage always season the choices made too.

And then there are people who are on a different mental plane than 99% of us and don't care about consequences - they are suicidal, dumb, or psychopaths - just avoid those people if you can, ha.

Risk is not a big philosophical debate IMO.

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Originally Posted by ski whore

Can’t believe this thread has gone 7 pages. Risk is and always will be so different from person to person


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You must be new here.

There's a 290 page thread about station wagons and 507 pages on the conundrum of what constitutes upstate NY. I'm sure we've got at least a few dozen more pages of risk discussion in us.

And we can always count on someone complaining about the thread to keep it going.

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Originally Posted by old goat

And we can always count on someone complaining about the thread to keep it going.

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there's a thread for complaining. it's got more pages than the station wagon and upstate ny threads combined!

we're very good at complaining, it might even be our superpower.

This place is dysfunctional as fuck. A discussion on risk has no place in a ski forum.

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Originally Posted by Darren Jakal

This place is dysfunctional as fuck. A discussion on risk has no place in a ski forum.

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I can't agree with that. At least it has some depth beyond "check me out, look at my line, blah blah blah."

Risk taking is a mental illness. So you're all mentally retahded! Can you still say that? Well, being a retahd myself I have an excuse I guess

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Originally Posted by raisingarizona13

I can't agree with that. At least it has some depth beyond "check me out, look at my line, blah blah blah."

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It’s an opinion. Feel free to disagree.

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Originally Posted by raisingarizona13

I can't agree with that. At least it has some depth beyond "check me out, look at my line, blah blah blah."

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I assumed he was just trolling to try to get this thread fired up again.

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Originally Posted by toast2266

I assumed he was just trolling to try to get this thread fired up again.

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There is a saying about assuming. No, just pointing out how odd it is to question a discussion on risk in a ski forum.

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Originally Posted by Darren Jakal

There is a saying about assuming. No, just pointing out how odd it is to question a discussion on risk in a ski forum.

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Kinda baffled why you think it's odd. This is a place designed specifically to discuss skiing. Skiing is inherently risky. There are three separate subforums in here for threads about situations where the risks went poorly. A thread that directly discusses risk isn't unusual. This certainly isn't the first one.

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Originally Posted by toast2266

Kinda baffled why you think it's odd. This is a place designed specifically to discuss skiing. Skiing is inherently risky. There are three separate subforums in here for threads about situations where the risks went poorly. A thread that directly discusses risk isn't unusual. This certainly isn't the first one.

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Read what he wrote again.

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Originally Posted by Darren Jakal

No, just pointing out how odd it is to question a discussion on risk in a ski forum.

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Not how odd it is to have a discussion on risk in a ski forum, but how odd it is to question that discussion.

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Originally Posted by Danno

Read what he wrote again.

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Read further up a bit. This is what he wrote:

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This place is dysfunctional as fuck. A discussion on risk has no place in a ski forum.

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Originally Posted by Conundrum

Would a discussion on risk in the slide section of a ski forum be odd? Seems like skiing avy terrain is all about risk assessment.

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its really apparent you don't wana misjudge a road gap but I don't think of aviy risk the same as trying to do a road gap, yeah its there and its probable but not the same

I got a ski bud who did aviy control out in Kitimat so it was industrial stuff in big snow and he said " well guides were always trying to avoid aviy whereas we were looking to set them off " he seemed to get a real kick outa cutting cornices out at the hankin evelyn, i just remember getting cold

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Originally Posted by toast2266

Read further up a bit. This is what he wrote:

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Sorry, I’ll try to remember how literal some are.

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

I got a ski bud who did aviy control out in Kitimat so it was industrial stuff in big snow and he said " well guides were always trying to avoid aviy whereas we were looking to set them off " he seemed to get a real kick outa cutting cornices out at the hankin evelyn, i just remember getting cold

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Doing avalanche control regularly was way more fun for me than skiing unless it was untracked and 12" +.

Is it risky? Sure. Did I have some close calls? Oh yeah and I lost a few friends who also did A/C and fucked up or misjudged their safety margins.

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Originally Posted by Darren Jakal

Sorry, I’ll try to remember how literal some are.

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eh, sorry. That's on me. Sometimes its hard to assume sarcasm when there's so many dumb takes.

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Originally Posted by toast2266

Read further up a bit. This is what he wrote:

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he shouldn't have answered so no negatively to your "trolling" comment. He wasn't trolling per se but he was delivering a healthy dose of snark.

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Originally Posted by toast2266

eh, sorry. That's on me. Sometimes its hard to assume sarcasm when there's so many dumb takes.

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Cool

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Originally Posted by Bunion 2020

Doing avalanche control regularly was way more fun for me than skiing unless it was untracked and 12" +.

Is it risky? Sure. Did I have some close calls? Oh yeah and I lost a few friends who also did A/C and fucked up or misjudged their safety margins.

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yeah they had the choppers and explosives also this guy had his feet frozen way too many times

In another 15-30 years the A/C will be done by a single guy using a laptop and shooting a bunch of fixed blasting units.

Sounds horrible.

Nothing like working in terrible weather, heavy snow and wind and getting big results to really make you feel alive.

someone will still have to go up and service the units ?

Drones would work but couldn't fly in any weather

on the Coqihalla highway thru BC they used a chairlift like system to ferry explosives along the tops of the mountains but I think it might be discontinued

I don't think drones will work as cheap at patrollers will.