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I read an artical on the subect of the redundancey that is lacking on modern large ships
so of course now I know everything but it bascicaly said they make em cheap with only 1 engine and big cuz speed is a product on length so then you only need 1 engine
the black box will show that something failed at the worst possible time
I appreciate and enjoy reading your posts from an insider's perspective.Quote:
Originally Posted by skibrd
I wish this country could get behind meaningful infrastructure projects for a litany of reasons, that being said, I've seen every presidential, congressional and local candidate since the Clinton Administration campaign in front of the Brent Spence Bridge which is the Interstate 75/Interstate 71 bridge across the Ohio River from Cincinnati to Kentucky, citing it as the blaring example of dead and decaying infrastructure that is so vital to our country's economy (the BS carries 150,000 vehicles per day and has been deemed functionally obsolete for almost two decades and has been closed for months in recent years thanks to losing bits of it to the river way below). Just last year thanks to the Infrastructure Act a replacement has finally been approved that should be completed by [checks notes] 2032 assuming no delays.
We're fucked.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...d1e54f1912.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by AK47bp
OK, Dale. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by bennymac
I’m hopeful it’s just a parody account ^
Yah that has to be a jokeQuote:
Originally Posted by bennymac
Yes but there’s a lot of GQPers who will take it seriously
How strong is the 5g network there?
Obviously the vaccine didn't make him pass out on the power switch, that's absurd. Clearly the chip installed with the vaccine allowed Hillary Clinton to take remote control of the captain (via email) to force him to deliberately ram the bridge in order to conceal her pizza parlor sex trafficking ring. The "construction workers" on the bridge were actually driving a box truck filled with Central American immigrant children slaves and the two "survivors" have already been euthanized.
#openyoureyessheeple
PDiddy was trafficking sex slaves on the boat for Hillary’s pizza ring, so George Soros had it crashQuote:
Originally Posted by adrenalated
Sounds like this ship was having power issues at the pier prior to departure according yo a report og gcaptan. Someone from the port reported multiple blackouts while they were at the dock, severe enough they had to provide power to the reefers. For those dentists unfamiliar with container ships, reefers are big $$$$ stuff that are of the highest priority.
When a US flag ship suffers a power loss it is required to be reported to the USCG. Not certain about other flag state vessels. If they were actually experiencing power generation issues while at the dock, and this was not reported to the Maryland pilot, this is a big deal.
Can a ship, or a shipping company that owns it, actually procure enough insurance to cover anything close to this? Are there minimum coverage amounts to sail these things loaded?
What's a reasonable guess at the total cost of all this? A billion? They need a whole new 1.6 mile bridge, for starters. I hear those things are spendy.
I’m not a maritime insurance expert, tbh I avoided that class in college because my morals thing certain things should be covered that are not. All ships do carry coverage for the ship and cargo. I’m not sure about what is and isn’t covered in an accident like this. If the company is found liable for lack of maintenance, then they will have to pay, that I do know, but we won’t know for 20 years what they will pay, hence Biden saying the federal government will rebuild the bridge now. I use that 20 year number because that’s how long it takes to settle all the claims because every one with a container on board will want a slide of the insurance money.Quote:
Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark
Shipping companies have the ships all owned by shell companies that own shell companies that only own 1 specific ship, often times named after the specific ship, but not always. No need to risk the empire crumbling if something like this happens. I bet if the Federal Government or State of Maryland go after the company all that will happen is they end up owning the Dalt and get some insurance money. The shipping company will write off the loss and go on
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The 520 bridge project in Seattle is going to be roughly 2 billion after this next phase over Portage Bay. I’m working with electricians that have been there 4 years already and counting. Portage Bay phase likely another 4 years. Big work! Slow: planning, labor tasks, engineering & bureaucracy- make for delays and mega expense.
I’m not sure the magnitude has sunken in for many affected in Baltimore. This incident made me think about how it’s good we now have road closure gates installed on 520 that will halt vehicles from harm in such emergencies.
^^^^ plowing knowledgeQuote:
Originally Posted by 2nd mate
Definitely a conspiracy, separating Dundalk from Glen Burnie has long been on the short list.
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Port Mann bridge in Vancouver cost a little under a billion and took 6yrs to construct (opened 2012, but not competed until 2015) Cable-stayed, a bit shorter at 2km.Quote:
Originally Posted by ötzi
I’d double your estimate.
The Oakland bay bridge was projected at 250m in 95 but wasn’t completed until 2015 at 6.5B
It took twice as long to dismantle the old cantilever bridge as it did to build it so Baltimore maybe got a lucky break w the whole thing going on the water as opposed to just some and having to disassemble some remaining part
Billion isn't a bad guess, but that's probably on the low end of what they're going to pay the contractor. Add another 50 percent for government bs and design.Quote:
Originally Posted by ötzi
Ultimately it really depends on a lot of things. Are the foundations salvageable and good enough for reuse? Will they update the bridge? Change the span size and height? They want 24/7 crews on it?
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What’s interesting about replacing the bridge is the air draft of the Key bridge was the limiting factor for how big (big=tall in this conversation) of ships could get into the Port of Baltimore. I bet the Port Authority tries to get that bridge as high as possible to get as big of container ships that exist in there and use this tragedy to fight the Port of NY/NJ for containers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not DJSapp
A higher bridge would involve completely replacing all of the pilings and existing infrastructure, but lead to a boom in cargo that passes through the port. Look at where Baltimore is on a map and how much further west it is the any other port on the east coast. Getting containers in large volumes further west would change a lot of the logistics for shipping things into the mid-west.
As for price, doesn’t matter, $2b, $3b, $7b doesn’t matter cause it will get built.
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Could they make a temporary pontoon bridge? With a middle section that moves to open a gap for passing ships? Run traffic morning and evening, and open for ships overnight and a couple hours midday. With a schedule so people can plan, they could mostly use the waterway and mostly use the tollway too.
Google says a typical barge is 200 feet long, 35 feet wide, The Fort McHenry (shipping) Channel is 700-800 feet wide. So, 2 barges wide and 4 barges long gives 70 foot width, 800 length. The destroyed bridge looks to be about 50 feet wide, 2 lanes each way. Looking at 100 year extreme tide range, I get about 10 feet for Baltimore, though that may be the wrong metric for floating bridge design - tides still seem very manageable.
Do they even need the tollway? 4 lanes is a pretty small road. Seems the rest of the area's road network might be able to endure extra traffic for a couple years. That may be the beneficial solution.
One of our clients is developing a new terminal in the Port of Savannah and we got to go down for a site visit guided by the Port Director himself. The main impediment to the Port’s growth is the height limitations placed by the Talmadge Bridge, a suspension bridge similar to a small Ravenel Bridge.Quote:
Originally Posted by skibrd
The Talmadge needs new cables so what the Port is going to do is hang new cables and then turn them 2 inches a day for 2 years which will raise the deck of the bridge over the Channel 24 feet over those 2 years. Coolest part is that they aren’t even going to stop car traffic while they do this. The height difference is apparently the difference between getting the world’s biggest container ships in the Port and not.
As always, the answer is $.
That’s really cool
How will they account for the increased length of the road bed? It’s a suspension bridge with fixed approaches on both ends, increasing the height of the suspended section will make a higher arch but will lengthen the arch as well. What am I missing here? I’m no engineerQuote:
Originally Posted by BmillsSkier
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I'm no engineer either but I figure they will need to add road segments on the ends kind of like really big expansion joints?Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn
https://apnews.com/article/savannah-...351a6fac33620d
Bridges are out of fashion. Tunnels are the new hotness.
They're boring.
Transcript of the radio traffic from the Port Authority as the accident happened on the front page of the Times this morning. Those guys were on it, they didn't forget about the workers, the bridge just came down before they could go get them. Despite that, they saved a bunch of lives for sure.
You are correct. As the height increases the roadway at the bridge abutments will be added to. How this is done is still being designed. the GC award is a CMGC package meaning that the contractor, the designers and the DOT will work together to come up with the best design that does this in the most cost effective method with the least impact to the traveling public (or at least that is the theory).Quote:
Originally Posted by BmillsSkier
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Part of what I love around here is the cross section of expertise. Its like ChatGPT with snark and sarcasm.
"I really wish I could get the opinion of a couple merchant mariners and bridge engineer"
"hold my beer"
Right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles
I'm always impressed with the depth of knowledge this place has. My wife, less so. I get an eye roll with every little fact repeated that starts with, "I read this on TGR..."
“So a friend and I were discussing the impact of wind shear on gondola cables the other day…”Quote:
Originally Posted by BmillsSkier
"And did you know that there is no universal agreement on where Upstate New York starts?"Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyCarter
Never ceases to amaze.Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles
Feds are currently paying to expand the Howard Street Tunnel so that trains can double stack containers. It would be great for the Port and the City if they can pull off multiple infrastructure upgrades. The oldest stone masonry bridge in the US for railroads is still actively used within city limits, the Carrollton Viaduct finished in 1829.Quote:
Originally Posted by skibrd
Mayor Scott should come out of this looking strong for the primary. Baltimore has quietly been improving under his admin and I hope he gets a second term.
I wonder if a tunnel would be a faster replacement than a bridge. Seems tunneling technology has expanded in recent years. Dependent on soil/rock type under the river.
Trucks have lots of restrictions on what they can haul in tunnels
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OK, which maggot is a tunnel engineer ?
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From what I read, this bridge was the hazmat route around Baltimore as there were no tunnels.Quote:
Originally Posted by SirVicSmasher