Atomic Backland XTD 120 - new for 2023 - 24 season

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Originally Posted by LeeLau

Fixed with cut up aluminum as shims. Took out the play. Haven't heard back yet re a formal fix

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Hi TGR land, I've been in contact with Lee about his experience and we're trying to figure out what/how this is happening. These are the same Igus bushings we have used since 2015, and the same set is in every Backland, Backland XTD, and Hawx XTD boot since we launched them.

These Igus bushings are designed to be replaceable should they wear out, as opposed to standard cuff rivets which are not replaceable. As with anything that can develop play, it is best to replace the set when you notice it. The more play that develops can eventually lead to warping mounting point on the shell and then it will be too late, you'll always have play even with a fresh set. Think of it like a headset in a bike's head tube - if you ovalize the head tube, then a headset will never fit properly.

If play is starting to develop, check the screw tightness (get it tight, but no need to crank the sh*t out of it; 7Nm should do it). If there is still play, then it's time for a fresh set.

Frictionless Pivot Set - AZE001164
Attachment 489760

Glad to hear you are looking into this issue. I found it super difficult to remove the bushings on my 1st pair of backlands (I am no mechanic ace though). Mine must have been ovalized because new bushings did nothing. With my second pair play developed very fast. I am a tall guy who flexes my boots with every turn enough that the shell bellows out a little bit. This wear is the main reason I haven't bought another pair of atomic touring boots, so I'd love to see an upgrade to the pivot system. Otherwise I really like the brand's equipment.

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Originally Posted by Yukonrider

Just checked mine after a particularly squeaky tour. I am developing play as well, currently about half as much as Lees, but I assume the wear accelerates as it gets worse.

Mind positng a photo of your fix Lee?

I don't ski these boots particularly hard, or often. I would guess less than 20 days.

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Needs torx wrench and 15mm socket. They're on loctited well so be patient and precise. Cut up pop can shim to take out the play.

Skied one day on them so far since this ghetto "fix". ONK is sending new bushings. In the meantime I've been skiing the new Tecnica ZGTP so no meaningful input on longevity of pop can fix.

I'll finish up the review disclosing my anecdotal experience with respect to boot wear. Will also install the bushings fix and see if they hold up long term Attachment 490414Attachment 490415Attachment 490416Attachment 490417

Boot play is back. The pop can shims lasted 3 ski days

Had a slushy spring ski day. Liners and socks were soaked. Anyone else had issue with water ingress past the gaiter?

Got the bushing repair kit from Atomic and easily installed. This solved play.

Concluded Backland XTD review and will hit publish on it after 38 days.

It tours well but it skis about as well as a 1100g boot (ie Scarpa F1). Laterally stiff but softish foreaft. Which begs the question as to why not get a 1100g lighter boot all thing seeing equal? Also when you ski it in slush your feet will get wet.

So is this boot the answer because of fit? Ie that it fits wide feet so well?

^ Great question.

When you say F1 are you referring to the regular F1? Scarpa has so many F1 derivatives these days. On the Scarpa website they list the standard F1 at 1260 g in a size 26.5/27. Atomic lists the XTD 120 at 1380 g for a 26/26.5. So what do you get for that 100+ g?

When compared to an 1100 g boot like a Dynafit Blacklight, I'd say the advantages is that the Backland XTD is less harsh. It might not be much stiffer in fore/aft flex but I would agree it's stiffer laterally than fore/aft and it feels smoother and less harsh than the 1K class boots (which I don't have a ton of experience with admittedly). That lack of harshness is less of a difference as the comparative boot gets heavier.

The walk mode is awesome, I'd say it walks a little better than the regular F1. A bit more ROM and a bit less friction.

And yes, for high volume feet it fits nicely out of the box, which I personally appreciate.

Other minor advantages - reliable buckles, easy transitions (the power strap has a quick release pull and then you just open the top buckle and flip the walk mode), and you get full ROM when you just flip open the top buckle (as opposed to the F1 which you need to adjust the velcro which is why frorider developed his Strap Off). Also, the stock liner is pretty nice, nicer than a lot of stock liners that aren't Intuition IMO.

I haven't skied the Atomic Backland XTD 120, but I did ski the Transalp Pro boot, which based on the reviews is similar in terms of walkability, weight, and flex. It wasn't stiff, but the extra weight and mass did help drive a wider ski (106 waist) with way more confidence and precision compared to the Salomon MTN Summit boot that I also ski with. For a 95 waisted ski, the boots mattered less.

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Originally Posted by whatsupdoc

^ Great question.

When you say F1 are you referring to the regular F1? Scarpa has so many F1 derivatives these days. On the Scarpa website they list the standard F1 at 1260 g in a size 26.5/27. Atomic lists the XTD 120 at 1380 g for a 26/26.5. So what do you get for that 100+ g?

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Correct - my F1 is the blue uppers with orange soles circa 2018. Fits me beautifully. Walks really well. Weighs approx 1280 g iirc so that squares with what you said.

For 1100g boots I had a Dynafit TLT5 P Carbon but it did ski pretty poorly so I totally connect to what you just said re the quality of how the Backland XTD skis

And the review

https://www.newschoolers.com/news/re...ng-boot-review

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Originally Posted by LeeLau

And the review

https://www.newschoolers.com/news/re...ng-boot-review

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Great review! I like mine, as a counterpoint to PU racey boots with zipfits weighing almost double, but then again, I have no experience with lighter boots at all.

Also cool to see you have an outlet in newschoolers, always appreciated your thoughts on gear. [emoji846]

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Originally Posted by LeeLau

Had a slushy spring ski day. Liners and socks were soaked. Anyone else had issue with water ingress past the gaiter?

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None, if anything, they're too proofed from water ingress. No breathability. I stay warm, though they do need airing out and some hot air after a day out.

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Originally Posted by arild

Great review! I like mine, as a counterpoint to PU racey boots with zipfits weighing almost double, but then again, I have no experience with lighter boots at all.

Also cool to see you have an outlet in newschoolers, always appreciated your thoughts on gear. [emoji846]

Sent fra min LE2123 via Tapatalk

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Thanks. Twig at Newschoolers is quite supportive of backcountry + there's a surprising amount of readership via NS. They're hands off editorial wise so allow me to dork out on technical details

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Originally Posted by LeeLau

Thanks. Twig at Newschoolers is quite supportive of backcountry + there's a surprising amount of readership via NS. They're hands off editorial wise so allow me to dork out on technical details

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Sounds perfect, happy for you. I guess the NS peeps are where we (mags) were at 10-15 years ago, growing up and all. Like skitalk is pretty much where we'll all end up.

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If anyone is looking for a size 29.5, PM me. The fit just didn't work for me. For reference, Lange XT3's fit with minimal work. XTD's were just too loose in the heel pocket.

Just got done with a 5 day hut trip in mine.

One thing of note is the stock liners dry out excruciatingly slowly. My buddies intuitions would be dry in about two hours of near wood stove spacing. Mine would take all night to dry (and a few days not even fully dry) with on wood stove drying position.

Besides that they ski fine, and tour great, I would probably buy another pair

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Originally Posted by LeeLau

Got the bushing repair kit from Atomic and easily installed. This solved play.

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How did you do this?

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Originally Posted by Yukonrider

How did you do this?

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Fix it? Or install the kit? The review shows what the kit looks like

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Originally Posted by LeeLau

Fix it? Or install the kit? The review shows what the kit looks like

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I'm sorry, where did you go/who did you call to get the kit?

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Originally Posted by LeeLau

And the review

https://www.newschoolers.com/news/re...ng-boot-review

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yikes!

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Originally Posted by Yukonrider

I'm sorry, where did you go/who did you call to get the kit?

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ah no problem. Atomic dealers can get the kit which is a package which had the bushings, etc. Can't post pics still :< or I'd show it

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Originally Posted by kid-kapow

yikes!

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Ok I'm curious - is that a yikes good or yikes bad. It's just an opinion so don't be afraid to disagree

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Originally Posted by LeeLau

Ok I'm curious - is that a yikes good or yikes bad. It's just an opinion so don't be afraid to disagree

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A good yikes - honest and thorough reviews explaining both the highs and lows of a given product is sadly not always the norm.

The yikes was more specifically aimed at the conclusion, which is not excactly a ringing endorsement :)

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Originally Posted by kid-kapow

A good yikes - honest and thorough reviews explaining both the highs and lows of a given product is sadly not always the norm.

The yikes was more specifically aimed at the conclusion, which is not excactly a ringing endorsement :)

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Thanks! I've always tried pretty hard to be super thorough to perhaps being overkill (nerdy?) but also fair to the extent possible. And if there's an issue, to give the company a chance to have a chance to address the issue.

Being a pretty big fan of Atomic I do think they make fundamentally good well thought out gear, Just because the boot might not hit my sweet spot doesn't mean it won't hit the numbers for someone else.

Well I went in to my dealer to get my new pivots. They tried to charge me $80 ($20 per pivot, cant get the plastic wear bit separate). After some push back I got them to submit a warranty claim, but being a "wear part" I don't expect much.

This is probably the final straw for these boots, Having to pay $80 every 20-25 days for new pivots is just not a good long term solution.

Along with the aforementioned (by Lee) issues I think next year I will at least try on some new boots and see how that goes. The Atomic toe box doesn't seem to agree with my feet, and the liner is quite difficult to remove and replace with the way the gaiter works. And you must remove the liner to dry the boots because without a proper boot dryer the liner takes forever to dry.

$20 for a set of 4 would be reasonable when you've bought an $800 boot (for 40% off in a spring sale, of course)

Is it in any way reasonable to charge the customer for repairing a ski boot after 20-25 days of use?

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Originally Posted by sf

Is it in any way reasonable to charge the customer for repairing a ski boot after 20-25 days of use?

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I don't think so. Especially for something that expensive. Sorry to hear Yukon

Is this cuff pivot issue unique to the backland XTD or does it apply to other boots in the family? Hawx, MTN Summit, etc?

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Originally Posted by Yukonrider

Well I went in to my dealer to get my new pivots. They tried to charge me $80 ($20 per pivot, cant get the plastic wear bit separate). After some push back I got them to submit a warranty claim, but being a "wear part" I don't expect much.

This is probably the final straw for these boots, Having to pay $80 every 20-25 days for new pivots is just not a good long term solution.

Along with the aforementioned (by Lee) issues I think next year I will at least try on some new boots and see how that goes. The Atomic toe box doesn't seem to agree with my feet, and the liner is quite difficult to remove and replace with the way the gaiter works. And you must remove the liner to dry the boots because without a proper boot dryer the liner takes forever to dry.

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Originally Posted by Samski360

Is this cuff pivot issue unique to the backland XTD or does it apply to other boots in the family? Hawx, MTN Summit, etc?

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The Frictionless Pivots are sold/packaged as a complete set for one boot (2 sides, for a half pair), so you shouldn't be charged per side of each boot (4 separate pivot charges)... something seems a little off with how they priced it if that's the case. Was the $80 for just the parts or parts plus installation?

We been using this exact hardware set since 2015, across all touring concepts from Backland to Hawx Ultra XTD. There have been no changes.

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Originally Posted by Samski360

Is this cuff pivot issue unique to the backland XTD or does it apply to other boots in the family? Hawx, MTN Summit, etc?

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I had it with my original backland carbon in similarly low amounts of use. I've heard of people getting a lot more use before this slop develops in other models. My guess is there's an interaction between the cuff bellowing outwards during flexion and the pivot that leads to increased wear in certain models of boots more than others.

Has anyone had luck/experience stretching these boots for length? I'm in a 27.5 Hawx Ultra XTD and the fit is spot on (only needed a teensy sixth toe punch), I just want something that walks better for spring tours. My problem with all <1300g boots is that the heel pocket is way too big, including the 27.5 Backland XTD.

So, wondering if I can size down to a 26.5 Backland and then punch the toes out if needed. Anyone played with this?

For reference, I am in a 26.5 Head Raptor WCR 3 with zero length work, and I've tried a Backland Carbon in 26.5 and was pretty happy with it.

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Originally Posted by onenerdykid

The Frictionless Pivots are sold/packaged as a complete set for one boot (2 sides, for a half pair), so you shouldn't be charged per side of each boot (4 separate pivot charges)... something seems a little off with how they priced it if that's the case. Was the $80 for just the parts or parts plus installation?

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Honestly I didn't ask many questions. It seemed they wanted to install it for me, and never mentioned a labor charge. I made a pretty big fuss about it so I think if they made a mistake it would have been caught, but I didn't look inside the baggies (he brought out 4).

Not to point fingers but on their website https://skimo.co/atomic-boot-parts it clearly states:

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Backland Frictionless Pivot - Keeps the cuff rotating around and attached to the lower shell. Sold individually, two would repair one boot, 4 would repair a full set of boots.

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I've got about 20 days on my Backland XTDs and they've got a mm or two of play in the pivots. Probably a smidge less than LeeLau's video earlier in the thread.

I'm 145lbs and conservative in the backcountry, so not the most punishing user. Unfortunately the place I bought the boots is no longer in business (RIP escape route) but I'll see how far I get with other local outfits..

Update: 10 days on new pivots and they are worse than the ones I just warrantied. Don't buy these boots.

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Originally Posted by GoldenBC

Has anyone tried the Chris Rubens mod of using a vulcan tongue on their backland xtd?

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does anyone have a picture or a link to this?

I’d love to see that too. I was thinking about how little it would take to get a cabrio boot out of the Backland XTD while I was skiing them over the weekend.

So just to clarify - the pivot play is not a warranty thing? I started getting it after 20ish days and also broke a boot board on the same post-work tour. Things are falling apart! Such a bummer because I really like how they perform and they fit me well.

It is, but there was pushback. I was able to get a second set under warranty, same P/N though so the problem isn't fixed, not sure how long they'll hand out new ones under warranty.

I couldn't get them for free with my old Backlands. Shop made me pay.