That’s awesome! Mount them close to rec and get at it!Quote:
Originally Posted by NotSoBright
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That’s awesome! Mount them close to rec and get at it!Quote:
Originally Posted by NotSoBright
Skiing my a few of my BMTs yesterday and then taking a tour on my 109s effectively ended my SF110+tech bindings experiment.
BMTs ski so freaking well that I do not really see any point in hauling the extra weight of the SF110s uphill. I found that it was easier to ski the full reverse BMT with Vipecs on refrozen boilerplate than SF110s with FR14 heels /SkiTrab Vario.2 toes. The latter skipped around a lot more on me, in spite of their increased weight, damper construction and actual camber infused suspension - though it kinda makes sense that BMTs with their short effective edge underfoot together with toes with more elasticity would be easier to ski in those conditions.
The weight difference between BMT109 w/Vipecs and SF110 with ATK FR14s w/ Freeride spacers and toe shims is only like 300gr or so, so not huge. The smoother toes of the Vipecs are alot better for my delicate knees too. #gettingoldermanvibes
I'm touring on Hojis for the same reasons. Not too much lighter, but I just don't need camber all the time.
I LOVE the Sender Free, but with alpine bindings and heavy boots. Hojis rally with the light gear. I value a neutral ride over almost all other things while touring.
Have seen an absolute ton of these skis in Lake Louise, Sunshine Village and in Kicking Horse the last week. Everyone raving about them when asked “how do you like them?” too.
you and I very much seem to like/have the same skis.Quote:
Originally Posted by JRainey
I saw you were looking for a hard-snow companion to your 110's. What did you end up with?
Myself, I'm interested in the new enforcer 99, but waiting for the 191 size to be released.
192cm Blackops 98 would be a good hard snow option with similar build and rubber damping like the Sender Free 110. Longer turn radius than the current 191cm Enforcer 100 with similar sidecut length and flex pattern(check Soothski.com).
See Corbetts has discounted stock on the BO 98 at $509 CAN/$380 US too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judo Chop!
Still looking, honestly I've been going crazy fucking with my powder ski choices, I've been trying not to think about the skinny ski option.
Blackops 98 is a bit off the list because I want something a little softer/easier
Mfree99 is the #1 spot
Reckoner 102 is getting serious consideration as Altacoup (EH ski lover) is raving about them.
I do want something that's pretty chill as the SF110 is really holding it down as DD. So then I just need something to be playful when the snow sucks or I'm skiing with my kids. I get super bored skiing groomers, so MFree and Reckoners seem like they will keep the fun finding jumps around the mountain.
I have Revolt 104 now in a 180 (too short), which aren't so bad in spring conditions, and in the park. I just never really loved the ski. It's not really too short for hard snow and slush. Just variable, which I'll don't need to worry about any more.
My biggest conundrum is do I get Blackops 118. Been trying out 190 pow skis, but I think I need to try the monster truck...
Remember the 185cm MFree 99 is the same length as the 183cm MFree 108 if length is a concern of your harder snow ski. Reckoner 102 184cm will measure just over 184cm though.
The 24/25 Reckoners also get beefed up a bit with wider sidewalls and their Spectral Braid laminate(tighter braiding underfoot for more stiffness and more open tip/tail for more forgiveness). Think SkiEssentials did a review on the new 102 a few weeks back.
And always yes to trying out the BlackOps 118/Sender Free 118! If you’re larger, just mount it further back. I’d go around -3cm from rec if you’re around 200lbs and maybe -3.5 or -4cm if you’re heavier than that. Still playful at -4cm as I have some 240lb friends on them.
What if you’re 6’5”? It just doesn’t seem long enough for me.
I'm 6'6", and I had the same worry, but it's ok. I mostly chose it because of lack of better similar style long ski alternatives.Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleBogey
The 191 SF110 replaced my OG Devastator 194, which other people say are beasts (I find them fun and playful).
Compared to Devs they aren't as good in deep, and they don't monster-truck through crud as well, but they are still just as playful, pivoty, stable enough, carve better, and maybe a bit more poppy on little side hits and stuff. I've been pretty happy with the SF110 as a W/B daily driver when there is any sort of soft available, up until it starts getting super deep (then I switch to Renegades and haven't even tried the SF110).
I mounted -2cm and it's good.
if you get along with centre-mounted skis, and (maybe ?) don't want it as your super deep pow tool, you'll be good.
I'm 5'8" and hoping to be back under 160 by next ski season, so I think on the blackops 118 I might try the rec mount to start.
I do have a unique, almost Incan, type physique where the lower half of my body could be stretched up to a 6'2" human and still seem beefy. Like little oak trees that ate too many donuts...
The softer, but longer running length of the R102 seems to be pretty awesome.
NoSlow, I discovered the SkiTalk forum blackops thread, pretty impressive that one.
MF99s are fun, but they are 181.5cm as mentioned above - not 185. They will not ski longer than 180 Revolt 180s - they might even ski shorter due to their deep rocker lines. I would check out 190 Moment Wildcat 101s or 102 BO98s if you want a longer ski. The latter is probably the more ski. I ski BO98 and find them to be easy to fun ski that are loose enough and with a construction that makes their playful shape work on everything from bulletproof groomers to shallower pow. I think they compliment SF110s well.Quote:
Originally Posted by JRainey
You could get B0118s too, yet an ON3P Jeffrey 118 191 might be even better if you need more length. That being said, BO118s are freaking magical and should be fairly easy to find at nice prices, so perhaps the only way to know is to try. The family resemblence with the SF110 is pretty obvious.
Thanks,
Yeah, the real problem I have with the revolt is it's got no pop, cuz it's low key RC.
I doubt I'll do anything about it this season, because I've got a line on some barely used BO118, and buying pow skis in the middle of march is way more important than all other things.
I had an insane day on Reckoner 122s on Thursday, and then so much fun with crud cleanup on Friday with the SF110. I was maybe having more fun on Friday. Imagine that BO goodness balancing out the deep up high with fluff on hard down low. SF110 was just in full motocross mode.
191 Reckoner was the shit, but it made my decently big terrain go by really fast. And at my weight suspension and pop suffered. Might mount them close to TC just to see.
I'm feeling a bit obsessive about trying things out right now. But I have a feeling if the BO118 is like I think it is, then I might settle on that for a while.
Edit to add the revolt feels to short only in variable snow where the low tip splay and forward mount would snag on shit, and send me forward. MFree big tips are super attractive, and the high tail rocker for turning around from switch in fucked up hard snow.
You called it!Quote:
Originally Posted by noslow
Two days on them, both at WB:
First day, alpine stayed closed so it was laps of mid-mountain. Ended up skiing steep, sporty trees off Garbanzo. Deep, sendy, and thick at the bottom, with cement on icy moguls back to the lift. I thought they would be a handful at 191 in the trees, but they were shockingly easy to ski. And so good! Work as advertised - some voodoo magic combo of burly but also surfy and slashy. It did take a run to adjust to the rec mount point (I've skied mount points all over the map).
Second day (today), only alpine, leftovers from days and days of new snow. I can see why the FWT athletes are on these. Go fast, stomp hard.
Really glad I went with the 191s and the rec mount point (not that I can compare, as I haven't tried -2).
Happier on these than the Nordica Unleashed 108s, which are good, too, but different feel. Nordicas feel torsionally stiffer, and unsurprisingly carve better. But they also feel pretty floppy, even hingy, up front and stiff in the back (perhaps because of the more traditional mount point?). Also, Nordicas less camber and rocker, so more flat along entire ski, which I'm not sure that I love.
Anyway, the hype is real. Super happy with them.
Awesome to hear you love them! Not surprising as they are fantastic skis.Quote:
Originally Posted by NotSoBright
The 184cm at -2cm to -3cm would be slightly easier to whip around in really tight spots but at rec the 191cm is still easy to manage as you’ve discovered. The 191cm definitely more stable and better in crud.
The Sender Free 110 will be both longitudinally and torsionally stiffer everywhere but maybe similar underfoot. So the Sender Free 110 has a more uniform flex pattern tip to tail rising more slowly underfoot compared to the more peaky flexing Unleashed 108.
Deeper rocker tip/tail on the Sender Free 110 along with more forward mount so that’s why it should be easier to pivot them yet on edge they should be pretty similar. Mounting the SF 110 back a bit would improve their carving ability but sacrifice its ease in bumps.
My 2 cents on the 184cm Sender Free 110s (mounted at -2cm) after a couple of days.
5'7, 165lbs. The Blackops 118 and Sender Squad are probably my two favourite skis of all time and I've been DDing the Squads at Whistler for the past couple of seasons. I picked up the SF110s in the hopes that they would share some of the unique characteristics of the Squad and BO118 while being more playful and engaging when I'm taking it easy.
I was a little underwhelmed after day 1, which was a deep pow day last weekend (not what I bought them for but I was keen to get them on snow). They don't match the float, looseness or stability of either the BO118 or Squad in deep snow - no surprises there. In particular, one of the best traits of both the BO118 and Squad is that you can ski fast through cut-up pow without getting that "hitting the brakes" feeling of suddenly slowing down when you go from a skied-out patch into a section of heavy, untracked pow. They just float over/through it. The SF110s get tossed around a little more. Still a good chop ski, but not mindblowing like the other two.
The other issue was that the tips felt squirrelly, kept catching an edge when running bases flat. When I got home I checked the tune (note to self: always do this first) and found that there was virtually no bevel on the tips and tails in the rockered parts of the ski. I put a 1 degree bevel on them and hit them with a gummi stone for good measure.
Took them about again today in spring conditions and had a MUCH better experience. The hookiness was gone. They carve beautifully for a 110 and have respectable stability while also being pretty loose and easy to whip around. As someone who's skied the Sender Squads for ~90% of my resort days this season, the Sender Frees felt immediately intuitive, like poppier Squads with stability dialled back 20% and quickness dialled up 20%. This analogy may only make sense to people in a similar demographic, but skiing the Squads reminds me of driving as Bowser in Super Mario Kart back in the day, whereas the SF110s are closer to Luigi (more maneuverable, better acceleration, but lower speed limit). They don't quite have that great damp rubbery feel of the Squad/BO118 in the tips and tails but the midsection is strong and substantial.
If I could pick just one of the three skis I'd probably go for the SF110s in the 191 length, but the 184 makes a better pairing with the 194cm Squads.
Ski the 191. Also, shame on you for being a WB skier and not detuning your rockered sections before a deep day. [emoji6] The 191 floats just fine in deep coastal snow in my experience and is crazy loose when properly detuned.
I guess I should add, if you are used to a Sender Squad and 186 BO118, then you really have no business on the 184. They are just too short and lack the mass of the other two. The comparison just isn’t close.
See, I figured there would be too much overlap between the Squads and the 191 SF110s. The 184s are supposed to be for when I'm with the family, or skiing bumps all day, or doing old man park laps. But damnit, I do want to try those 191s now...Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandit Man
@jongle Did you check if the bases were flat too when checking the tune? Both my BO 118 were base high and got them ground before skiing but my SF 110 didn’t seem “too bad” but seemed less planted and stable than I thought they should when skiing.
Sure enough, base high as well and hugely improved after a grind. Went over the edges by hand and just smoothed/detuned above the widest taper points, not contact points and they are perfect now.
Interesting - had a similar experience and chalked it up to having not adapted to the ski.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jongle
How far back did you go with the tune? Just the rocker?
Edit: answered my own question - it's obvious when you run a file over the base edge. And it is precisely the rockered sections of the skis.
The issue might have been a lower than 1 degree base bevel which is more common near the contact points tip/tail. Should be 1 degree tip to tail but sometimes is .5 or even 0 as it didn’t get hit properly. Use a file guide on that base bevel tip to tail at 1 degree to insure it’s uniform.Quote:
Originally Posted by NotSoBright
Lover than 1 degree will cause the edge to engage quicker and could be grabby in those spots. An edge high base is another reason for a ski to feel grabby so check that the base is flat as well.
Ensure the same thing with the side edge at 2 degrees but this is less “issue causing” than a low base bevel or bases that aren’t flat. Detune/smooth above the widest taper points tip/tail.
Yep, same for me. The file was catching on the rockered portion but not on the cambered portion. You could see where the bevel ended just by looking at the base edge too, the rockered portions looked totally smooth.Quote:
Originally Posted by NotSoBright
Yep, I checked them with a true bar and didn't see any issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by noslow
Good! One of the lucky ones it seems. My last 5 pairs of Rossi skis have all needed grinds. GrrrrrrQuote:
Originally Posted by Jongle
Brutal! I guess I’ve been lucky. Out of the BO118, Sender Squad and SF110, only my 110s have had tune issues out of the wrapper.Quote:
Originally Posted by noslow
I skied my BO98s and SF110s yesterday and today, and man - I really get on well with both of them. Both are great - especially the SF110.
I just do not understand why the good folks over at Rossi have not made a SF110 type ski years ago. Oh well, better late than never.
Now release some limited release SF110 with the same type of graphics that the BO98 and BO118 have please. And with textured topsheets too.
Agreed. If they all had matching topsheets I might be able to trick my wife into thinking I had fewer pairs of skis.Quote:
Originally Posted by kid-kapow
One of the SF 110 owners on SkiTalk who already enjoyed them had a bunch of skis stone ground and had the SF 110 done too.
Much quicker edge to edge after so probably a bit edge high from the factory.
Not surprised in the least unfortunately.
Was a salesman at a high end audio store for many years that sold many companies that had many similar looking models. Linn had various amps, pre-amps and cd players that all were in the exact same sized black chassis regardless of price.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jongle
We would often be told to time when the wife wasn’t home for the customers latest upgrade to be installed seamlessly into the stereo cabinet. Haha
well fekk me, I want so gogogoguen skis
Attachment 491228
The max paml and mandin versions are ok too, if more on par with the standard version imho
Attachment 491229Attachment 491230
Saw those today, too. Why these designs aren't the normal models or available as unique graphics for a given length (e.g. BO118) is beyond me.Quote:
Originally Posted by kid-kapow
Who are those skis for?
Def. Jake Stevens - aka Rossi's alpine category manager - has also stated that they have some additional graphics saved up made by the same folks who made the current swamp/salomon and BO98 graphics. I do understand their desire to run a somewhat bland graphic a lot of people can accept / not hate / not love, but spice it up for us enthusiast eh!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandit Man
They are limited release skis made avaliable for us regular skiers in the 184 length -where the graphics are inspired by Marcus Goguen, Max Palm and Oscar Mandin aka three of Rossi's Freeride World Tour riders. One can but assume that a shorter length limited release will be released for Astrid Cheylus (their female FWT rider) at some later date. She is a more recent signing than the other three though.Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleBogey
Responding to my own post:Quote:
Originally Posted by NotSoBright
Not sure if it's placebo, but this made a HUGE difference. No more hooky tips and even more slashy. Thought I couldn't like these skis more...
I’m debating whether to get some 184 Sender Free 110s on sale this spring, but won’t have a chance to demo. This may be hard to answer, but is the SF 110 more similar to the BlackOps 118 or 98?
I currently have the 186 BO 118s and like them a lot, mounted at -2.5 from recommended. They track well, but the tail rocker keeps them loose. They like a more neutral stance but do give back if you drive the tips.
I previously had the 182 BO 98s, mounted at -1 from recommended, and they didn’t work for me. I liked them on groomers, but in variable snow, I had to back off the tips to not go over the bars, but then the tails were overly present.
What I really want are next year’s 185 M-Free 108s to replace my 182s, which feel a bit too short. But those won’t be out until the fall and I’d be paying full price. I’m trying to figure out if the SF 110 would do the trick for what I’m after.
DC - I have the 191 SF110 and 186 BO118 both mounted around -2/2.5 from recommended (IIRC). The SF110 is silly fun in soft snow and handles groomers well. I find it’s not quite as damp/dead stable in variable and chop as the BO118. The SF110 is quite loose and playful IMO, but not the bulldozer the BO118 is.
I tend to grab my 192 MF108’s on those in between days and think they are a bit more capable than the SF110 in those conditions. I prefer the MF108 over the SF110 in firmer crud/variable and the SF110 in truly deep/soft snow. Of course, the magic of the BO118 is that it does both of those conditions well.
Very easy to answer the original question as the Sender Free has an almost identical flex pattern(just a hair stiffer throughout on the SF 110), rocker profile and shape(hair more directional on the SF 110). So the SF 110 is a faster edge to edge, more precise Blackops 118.Quote:
Originally Posted by D(C)
Much more edge grip and not as loose as the MFree 108 but like the BO 118, easy to pivot when flat.
The 184cm SF 110 is the same tape measure as the 182cm MFree 108 so be sure to mount at least -3cm back from Rec if you want to make it “ski longer” and have a mount point more similar to the MFree 108. Have my set of 184cm SF 110 at -3cm/-6.25cm total and perfect for my 175lbs.
SF110s are basically a narrower BO118 with airtips. They are great, and ski shallower fresh a lot like BO118s ski deeper snow - if more nimbly and a tad less steamrolly.Quote:
Originally Posted by D(C)
BO98s are pretty different (contact length, taper, camber, rocker debth) if kinda still within the same vibe (loose and chill, yet potent) if that makes sense. BO118s and SF110s also have the core protrude longer into the rockered zones (because the rocker lines are much deeper), whereas BO98s are more tip spacer in that part of the ski - so with shallower rockers zones and more abrupt splay in less supportive and less floaty tips your experiences makes sense. I really like BO98s as my low tide ski. The overly active tails might also have been too sharp edges aft of the contact point - detuning them aggressively makes a ton of difference in how they ski.
I've had MF108s in both 182 and 192 and kinda felt between sizes. 184 SF110s feel great to me.
I've had a few days on the BO118, and they are def more "dead" than the SF110, in a good way.
Also the center of the ski is softer in the sense that I can load them up on a cat track and almost sit in a wheelie (BO118). Where that wouldn't be possible with the SF110. At speed they feel pretty similar in stiffness, with SF110 just having more rebound, but still pretty "rubbery" compared to other skis I've got.
After seeing what the BO118 can do, I'm doubting my use for the SF110 as day-after cleanup ski. Might become more of a 3-4days after a storm ski. Crud/Soft stays around longer here in the alps.
To be clear, loving the SF110 was what pushed me to get the BO118, but the BO118 is pretty unreal in it's chargie-forgiveness factor.
I'm def. entertaining the BO98 as a low tide ski, but for now I'm thinking about mounting the SF110 on the progressive line and just enjoying the freestyle vibes. But I might not bother.
My current "skinny" ski is revolt 104, and I haven't used it all season. So my need for something skinnier than the 110 isn't actually huge.
But I do have a current dilemma about when to use each one, but it will sort itself out. I do think they complement each other were.
SF110 = More snap, more edge, more serious (?)
BO118 = More gooey, more float, more fun (?)
You’ll appreciate the SF 110 more on firmer days or days where you’re skiing slower with kids or friends that don’t ski as fast. Find they are more fun and less work at lower speeds than the BO 118 are. Definitely would not move the mount forward beyond the rec as that would sacrifice its stability and carving performance. -3.5cm is already a very forward mount.Quote:
Originally Posted by JRainey
Agree you’d use this on the 2nd day after a storm or no new snow in a while.
Just picked up a set of BO 98 myself to maybe use as my West Coast daily to go along with the BO 118 on trips there. Found even my narrower 92mm Faction 21 CT 1.0 wanted more speed on the groomers there and didn’t love super firm bumps all day. The softer tips/tails of the BO 98 and a bit tighter radius should be better for me out there.
Think you’d like the BO 98 flex pattern as it’s a touch softer tip/tail than the BO 118 and that softer flex extends further into the center. Underfoot it’s probably close to the SF 110 but much softer tip/tail than that ski. More directional ski so mount point around -5cm but it’s short(179.5cm tape measure) so I’d probably stay close to that for you. I went -1.5cm back(6.5cm total) for my 175lbs.
Had them stone ground before mounting the bindings as they were a touch edge high and hand tuned after. Actually a much better factory tune than most Rossi skis I’ve gotten lately but still much improved with the grind and hand tune.