The TGR Skinny Ski Ski Tourers' Refuge Thread

After some feedback from this thread, I tracked down a pair of La Sportiva Skorpius' to slip on. Really excited about the fit and flex, I have a super low instep so these felt like game changers. The range of motion is 'very good' but not as smooth as the F1 LT or Alien RS (I compared the three) at the end of the day, they fit me best so I'll be trying to free up some money for a pair.

I have a pair of Alien RS's that I'll be tossing up on Gearswap if anyone is interested. Size 28. Low days (like 9-10) some scuffing on the plastic but minimal. No hiking on rock or anything of the sort. I wish I had a higher instep because these would be golden if I did.

Also... if anyone has a lightly used 27.5 Skorpius I'd be interested.

I'll take those RS just to have as a spare. PM incoming.

Shameless commercial plug:
https://www.haganskimountaineering.c...agan-race-suit

And remember to review the list of "invalid reasons for not ordering":
https://nerandorace.blogspot.com/p/l...ce-outfit.html

(Disclaimer of sorts: despite the shameless commercial plug, I receive no commission from the suit sales, or any other financial compensation from Hagan. And even though my race series is organized as a for-profit entity, but I've never made any money from all that effort. Fortunately my real gig is more successful financially!)

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Originally Posted by Jonathan S.

Shameless commercial plug:
https://www.haganskimountaineering.c...agan-race-suit

And remember to review the list of "invalid reasons for not ordering":
https://nerandorace.blogspot.com/p/l...ce-outfit.html

(Disclaimer of sorts: despite the shameless commercial plug, I receive no commission from the suit sales, or any other financial compensation from Hagan. And even though my race series is organized as a for-profit entity, but I've never made any money from all that effort. Fortunately my real gig is more successful financially!)

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These race suits really are sweet. I use them for long single day mountaineering missions with softshells on top. Great storage for skins, food, water and a zippered beacon pocket. Not just for racing.

Too bad those Radical boots aren't lighter. According to skimo.co's numbers they are almost 200 g per boot heavier than Zero Gs

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Originally Posted by timmaio

These race suits really are sweet. I use them for long single day mountaineering missions with softshells on top. Great storage for skins, food, water and a zippered beacon pocket. Not just for racing.

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Ditto.
I used to wear race lycra only for racing and resort training.
Now, unless the wx fx calls for nasty precip, I always wear race lycra for all my skinning. The stowage is just so practical!

You guys are making me lycra-curious. (I rock lycra on the bike no matter what, but so far I'm still using too-baggy clothes for touring.)

Questions: can one easily store bigger skins in the top between laps? (100mm waist is pretty much the minimum for having fun here. I don't ski hard snow or on resorts.)

Do the leg cuffs work for RS or F1s or only race boots? Sz 28.

What about temperature range? How would they compare to what I wore yesterday for 7h/9100'? Bottom was thin base with OR Trailbreaker, top was thin poly with OR Ferrosi. It was perfect and would work for many of my touring days in CA/NV. I really appreciate and use the leg vents, so losing them is a concern.

Skin width, yes, I've stuffed skis for my La Sportiva Vapor Nano in race suits.
Also essentially the same as stuffing two pairs of race skins inside a suit.
Just be forewarned that you'll look like this:
https://www.facebook.com/NERandoRace...84173771623811

RS, yes, they'll work perfectly.
F1 though, you'll have to kind of cuff the tights at the top of the boot, not extending the gaiter down around the upper cuff. But then again, with a normal sealed-up boot like that, you don't need the tight extending all the way down anyway.

Cold weather in the Tahoe area, hah, you sound like my brother in Soda Springs who has become a California weather wuss, forgetting our rough upstate NY upbringing!
In all seriousness, in really desperately cold temps, I put on:
- my favorite boxer briefs from https://www.warmwillys.com/ (one of my race series sponsors, but they really are my favorites)
- some older EMS wind boxer briefs, much longer, can't find them on the website, but kind of like this: https://www.ems.com/carhartt-mens-ba...956900019.html
- lightweight long underwear
- medium long underwear
- race tights
I resort to more traditional soft shell pants (or these: https://skimo.co/la-sportiva-devotion-pant) only under the threat of undesirable precip types.

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Originally Posted by Jonathan S.

https://skimo.co/la-sportiva-devotion-pant) only under the threat of undesirable precip types.

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I have a pair of these in blue that I enjoy when no one is looking. I don't think a typical skimo suit wouldblock wind enough for where I am.

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Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds!

I have a pair of these in blue that I enjoy when no one is looking. I don't think a typical skimo suit wouldblock wind enough for where I am.

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The blue color scheme option for that La Sportiva pant always puzzled me -- the brand is just all about black & yellow!

Here's a fine spring weather mid-April outing on Mt Washington from 2019.
I'm in the front center of the picture, wearing Millet race tights.
(Note that our ski poles are not white, that's all rime!)

Attachment 397749

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Originally Posted by wilcox510

Too bad those Radical boots aren't lighter. According to skimo.co's numbers they are almost 200 g per boot heavier than Zero Gs

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I have direct a/b tested them vs the zero g tour pro and much much much prefer skinning in the radicals. Completely different rom than the 0g

That said I do have tlt7s for full on weight weenie time

Radical boot looks good. Kind of like a Mercury but with the new walk mechanism. However, they keep making shitty thin soles on Dynafit boots that in my experience wear out quite fast and then you're scrambling on plastic and eventually your toe pin interfaces.

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Originally Posted by BFD

buying new boots tomorrow. Thinking TLT8 need the width. Is the Custom Light enough liner? Thinking SW CO winter. Spring AK expeditions. Skimo mentions liner often gets exchanged for Palau. Seems like if so should get the expedition and eat the 100 grams.

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Late reply, but no, the stock liner is the thinnest and flimsiest I've ever encountered. I swapped it out immediately for an MV Pro Tour, with a vast improvement in comfort and heel hold. IMO, the stock liner is one of the reasons the TLT8 sometimes gets written off as having an excessively roomy fit... it has a wide last, for sure, but the heel/achilles area is pretty snug with a proper liner in there.

thanks for the reply. I went over to Durango to buy boots. They had the TLT expedition in my size. The new boot length would of required remounting all my skis and getting new crampons. I passed so am still in my beat boots. Thinking of the Atomic Backland Carbon. Boot guy at 2nd Axe. sports in Durango said he can make them fit my foot. Been on Garmont, Scott boots for over 20 years. It would be easy if they made a boot close to 1000 grams. Any experts on the molding of the Atomic? Apparently the entire shell can be molded and width is easy to correct.

I haven't skied the new Backland Carbon, but I skied the old version with removable tongues for a few seasons. My feet are 105mm wide and the last width in a 24.5 was something like 94mm. I was able to get most of the width I needed through the heat molding process, but I still had to get my bootfitter to punch them out for the last couple of mm.

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Originally Posted by Jongle

I haven't skied the new Backland Carbon, but I skied the old version with removable tongues for a few seasons. My feet are 105mm wide and the last width in a 24.5 was something like 94mm. I was able to get most of the width I needed through the heat molding process, but I still had to get my bootfitter to punch them out for the last couple of mm.

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thank's that is what I was hoping to hear. Going to order them today.

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Originally Posted by bry

Zipfit GFT preorders opened up yesterday, might be with a look.

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Just ordered a pair of GFTs. Per Zipfit, they're still in Italy and expected to start shipping to customers in mid-January.

Not much info out there apart from the press release and some IG stories, but I have very high hopes for these based on the zipfits in my alpine boots. They'll probably weigh about 500g per liner though, so this might be the wrong thread to post my first impressions in.

Really intrigued, yes I've had good success with them in my alpine boots.

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Originally Posted by bry

Really intrigued, yes I've had good success with them in my alpine boots.

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Same.

According to one of their videos they were designed around zgtp. Even if they are heavy that would be quite the setup.

Curious about cork migration while touring, but it's probably worth the weight tradeoff if it works.

Thread drift: I toured (and skied inbounds and park) in the original Lange XT 130 LV with Zipfit WC liners for a season.

And while they were great for sidecountry and short tours (especially going downhill), they were heavy as fuck and I hated them for the one 4 day hut trip I took them on. Could have been my poor conditioning, but I was so tired after the ascent with this 2200 gram boot/liner combo that I didn’t have the ski legs to descend like I wanted to on that trip.

Just my opinion, but a HV Intuition ProTour molded well is likely to get you 80-90% of the heel hold/descending performance of a Zipfit in a touring boot, at least for about 100 days before the Intuition packs out. It will be way lighter (and probably warmer) too.

Sorry for the drift, please get back to your regularly scheduled skinny ski nerdery :)

P.S. WNDR should make a reverse camber 90 mm underfoot ski called The Slog to compete with the old BMT 94 and the Down 90mm offering. 116-90-108, mount point around -6cm from TC, 1350 gm in a 182cm length.

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Originally Posted by DGamms

Thread drift: I toured in the original Lange XT 130 LV with Zipfit WC liners for a season. And while they were great for sidecountry and short tours (especially going downhill), they were heavy as fuck and I hated them for the one 4 day hut trip I took them on. Could have been my poor conditioning, but I was so tired after the ascent with this 2200 gram boot/liner combo that I didn’t have the ski legs to descend like I wanted to on that trip.

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Valid. Did the cork migrate within the liner and create lumpy spots, or did the fit stay good?

Nope, the cork didn’t move much while touring. It was more the total weight and the lack of rearward ROM of the Zipfit liner that sucked on the all day ascents.

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Originally Posted by DGamms

P.S. WNDR should make a reverse camber 90 mm underfoot ski called The Slog to compete with the old BMT 94 and the Down 90mm offering. 116-90-108, mount point around -6cm from TC, 1350 gm in a 182cm length.

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It would be really nice if ANYONE would make a lightweight reverse camber ski. Since the BMT94 is near impossible to find now that it hasn't been made in 5 years, I believe the lightest reverse camber ski in production right now is the BMT109 at around 1700g, followed by the 4frnt Raven and WNDR Vital around 1800g. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong and I will buy that ski. The Volkl Blaze 94 is around 1500g and is really close to reverse camber but not quite. Camber sucks and I will never buy a ski with any camber again. I am an adult-learned beater skier and reverse camber compensates for my mediocre technique. There are many others like me and hopefully in a few years there are a lot more reverse camber options.

Attachment 398374

Good thread!
Agree with Benneke ^^^ re the need for someone to make a lightweight bc ski that is more modern shaped - progressive mount, longer radius, low or no camber. I ditched my ZG85s after one season... just found them too hooky and locked in for spring objective skiing when your almost guaranteed bad variable snow over 3k+ of vertical. Picking up some CD104Ls from tgapp to hopefully better fill this slot, but would prefer something lighter...
The Moonlight Mission carbon is interesting, but just too spendy for something that will likely get pretty trashed on April-June snow - https://moonlightmountaingear.com/co...s/mission-skis
Ravens remain as my winter bc ski, but guessing the CD104Ls could give them some competition in that slot, we'll see.
Tempted to go lighter on boots, but my feet are wide and prone to getting f-ed up, so for now I just stick to Maestrale RS's for everything (resort too) since I can wear those all day pain-free.

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Originally Posted by DGamms

Thread drift: I toured (and skied inbounds and park) in the original Lange XT 130 LV with Zipfit WC liners for a season.

Just my opinion, but a HV Intuition ProTour molded well is likely to get you 80-90% of the heel hold/descending performance of a Zipfit in a touring boot, at least for about 100 days before the Intuition packs out. It will be way lighter (and probably warmer) too.

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I think you're probably right, also had good success with the intuition pro tour.

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The CD104L's are good skis but if you like responsive, pivoty skis like the Raven they might not be the ideal ski for you. The CD104L's have some of that hooky/locked in feeling of more traditional skis, but maybe I just felt that way because I weigh 145lbs and couldn't flex them. You would probably have more fun, and differentiate more from your Ravens, on a Volkl Blaze 94 or Rise Beyond 88. The skimo co crew says the Rise Beyond 88 is super pivoty and while it has some camber, feels close to a reverse ski. Might be worth giving them a call, the skis are pretty affordable, around $600 msrp and often marked down. If you read the Blaze 106 review thread, you will see that while Volkls have very traditional mount points, they behave more like a -5 or -6cm mounted ski (in a good way) due to their long tip rocker and minimal camber underfoot.

^^^ Good to know, thank ya! Yes, we'll see how the CD's do. I'd really like to try a pair of the Down LD's... but alas those are quite hard to find

Figured this is as good a place as any here to ask where folks are having luck finding replacement U springs for ATK Trofeo/ (BD 145) bindings. Looking for a steel 10 din spring. Hoping to find some state side and not have to order from Snowinn or TP. Not seeing them listed at Skimo, but I’ll give them a call also.


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Snowinn and TP are great retailers. No sales tax and they usually ship very fast.

And as others have said as well, the ATK Trofeo heel lateral release # is whatever is stamped on the flap, U spring # is just vertical release.

Agree on Telemark Pyrenees. Real skiers, ship fast.
Not so sure on Trekinn. Have read several hoort stories about stuff not shipping or shipping wrong, and then no, or poor, response from customer service.

Still, a U spring seems low risk.

Ok, I’ll give TP or Snowinn a try. Thanks for the feedback!


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Did you try Black Diamond?

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Originally Posted by Jonathan S.

Did you try Black Diamond?

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Didn’t call just checked on pro form and they’re website and they weren’t showing any. I’ll give them a call.


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The complete spare parts list is far more extensive than any order forms.

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Originally Posted by hick

Figured this is as good a place as any here to ask where folks are having luck finding replacement U springs for ATK Trofeo/ (BD 145) bindings. Looking for a steel 10 din spring. Hoping to find some state side and not have to order from Snowinn or TP. Not seeing them listed at Skimo, but I’ll give them a call also.


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spyderjon.

I was able to remount Dynafit Blacklight 88 (172) and Movement Alp Tracks 89 (169) for my boots today. Both are mounted +1 due to hole conflicts/resale considerations. Will be able to test them in the next few weeks, and I'm very excited. Comparison of their shape and mounts; the arrow on the Alp Tracks is the boot center.

Attachment 400498Attachment 400500

Blacklights with Hagan Ultra WC (ATK SL World Cup) from stuntedalbatross (thank u!!) weigh 1319g
Alp Tracks with Helio 110 (ATK SL Lightweight World Cup) weigh 1230g

Not quite sure how to orient my quiver. The Voile Hyperchargers have been fantastic for tight trees and open faces both. Previously I had sort of oriented my quiver as race/spring/"daily driver"/powder, but I'm not sure what "daily driver" would entail. I was kicking around the idea of separating a quiver into (For Utah): race, spring, steep/stable powder, and low-angle powder.

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Originally Posted by CirqueScaler

Blacklights with Hagan Ultra WC (ATK SL World Cup) from stuntedalbatross (thank u!!) weigh 1319g
Alp Tracks with Helio 110 (ATK SL Lightweight World Cup) weigh 1230g

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FYI I don't think you are correct about those being SL Lightweight. The Lightweight version have a milled down U spring to get a lighter release value and I don't know any companies rebranding those particular versions. Also the picture seems to show a full strength U spring

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Originally Posted by timmaio

FYI I don't think you are correct about those being SL Lightweight. The Lightweight version have a milled down U spring to get a lighter release value and I don't know any companies rebranding those particular versions. Also the picture seems to show a full strength U spring

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Hmmm, that's interesting. I was just going off the pics on the ATK website and could only discern the rolling u-spring vs. a non-rolling u-spring. Do you have any pics of the SL Lightweight? I just have the bog standard Helio 110s.

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Originally Posted by timmaio

FYI I don't think you are correct about those being SL Lightweight. The Lightweight version have a milled down U spring to get a lighter release value and I don't know any companies rebranding those particular versions. Also the picture seems to show a full strength U spring

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Originally Posted by CirqueScaler

Hmmm, that's interesting. I was just going off the pics on the ATK website and could only discern the rolling u-spring vs. a non-rolling u-spring. Do you have any pics of the SL Lightweight? I just have the bog standard Helio 110s.

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The current version of the SL Lightweight has the rolling-in springs. Aside from the graphics and the lower-release/retention heel springs, exactly the same as the regular SL World Cup.

Agreed on the lack of any rebranding of that model variation.
But if looking to buy new or retrofit an older binding, can achieve the same combo on your own:
https://www.haganskimountaineering.c...o-race-binding
https://www.haganskimountaineering.c...ling-in-system
(The retrofitting is not technically demanding, yet is a little annoying. To provide a little bit of "encouragement" for the new springs, I used my grandfather's upholstery hammer, which also sees a lot of duty to leverage -- but not whack! -- binding toe pieces that might be a little skewed before the final torqueing.)