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Good looking out fellas, I get the fit stuff backwards a lot. Yeah, I want the low volume then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dee Hubbs
Anyone know how to get them in Massachusetts (or SLC)? I know I had a hell of a time finding a shop to get the liners in SLC…
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I think the Sports Den in SLC may have had them last year
I called Wachusett and they ordered them from Atomic very quickly for me - super helpful guy. So if you need boot fit parts in central Massachusetts give Wawa a ring.
ONG,
Top work on the development and educating us all. Thank you.
If I were to purchase a Redster CS 130 with Profesional liner could I also use that same liner in a Hawx XTD 130? (I know this is unusual - but I have a specific regular family day/ tour home application for this).
I know clogs and shell fit between the 2 are quite different (96 vs 98 and heal pocket) - but actually having a slightly looser fit in the XTD is okay for less performance/ more comfort and touring.
Specific question: is the Profesional Liner for the Redster CS different to that for the Hawx in terms of last and volume of the actual liner (beyond the tongue)?
Thank you in advance.
I'm trying that exact thing at the moment. I need a "demo days" boot with GripWalk and tech fittings so I can use any demo binding at tests. I settled on a Hawx Ultra 120 XTD, swapped out a few parts and have been wearing them around the house for the past week or so. I went with the 120 Ultra XTD because it seems to flex a bit smoother and getting in the shell is a bit easier than the 130, but the forward stiffness was a lilttle underwhelming.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingKiwi
Adding the Professional liner from the Redster CS Pro gets the stiffness up to around 130 and increases heel retention - haven't skied them yet, but it's a promising marriage. Touring will probably suck, but I don't plan on doing any in this boot anyway.
The forefoot volume of the 96mm Redster CS and the Hawx Ultra XTD isn't all that different - the really noticeable difference is in the midfoot, navicular and styloid areas. The Redster Professional liners seem to work fine in the Ultra XTD.
PS I had punched the crap out of the Redster CS before I heated and injected the liners, same with the XTD, so they were essentially the same shape . . .
In shells that aren't modified too much, I would be skeptical as the last shapes are so different in the mid- & rear foot areas. But I haven't tried it, so I can't really say for sure. I would imagine it will be looser, but if you're ok with that then rock on! You and Greg can let me know how it goes ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingKiwi
Re: question - yes they are different. Redster liners (besides using different tongues) are made with thinner microfiber outers (the leather looking stuff on the outside) vs. the Hawx versions and are lasted differently. Not just width but instep height, length, etc. Redster liners are made for lower volume boots and Hawx liners are made for "higher volume than race" boots.
I have both the redster cs professional and the hawx XTD 130 in 26.5. I just tried the CS pro liner in the Hawx XTD 130 shell and it did not fit well. It was too tight up and down in toe box and really loose side to side in the ankle as well as heel. Really shitty fit. ************Its the best liner Ive ever had when paired with the boot it was intended for********Quote:
Originally Posted by onenerdykid
I plan to take my XTD to europe next season for a couple weeks as it is much more suited to walking around than the CS boot. I plan to pair it with the intuition pro tongue. I currently ski the xtd with the intuition tour wrap.
Ultra XTD or Prime? Did you heat the Professional liner as recommended for Mimics before you stuck it in?Quote:
Originally Posted by MTslackcountry
My 2022 CS pro liner was foam injected molded per exact atomic instructuions for my 2022 CS pro 130 shells. I took it out and tried it in my 2021 hawx 130 xtd touring boots. The fit was poor.Quote:
Originally Posted by gregL
Hawx Ultra XTD or Hawx Prime XTD?Quote:
Originally Posted by MTslackcountry
Ultra xtd.
I suspect if you try to swap already injected liners between these two boots without any mods or heat, there'll be some slop, as you note.
My experience isn't typical, because I work as a bootfitter and have access to all the tools - I punched and ground the Redster CS to about its limit to fit my foot before heat molding the liner and injecting it. Then I did the same to the Hawx Ultra XTD shell, so they were very close to the same shape, at least according to my foot. Then I heated the Professional liner again before I dropped it in the Hawx. They work great; wish I had another pair so I wouldn't have to switch back and forth.
FWIW, if I walked into a shop and someone saw my feet, they'd reach straight for a Hawx Magna - my right foot measures out between 114mm and 121mm depending on the day and the type of digital scanner used . . .
Does anyone know who might fit these liners in Tahoe? I’m a few years into my Hawx Ultra XTDs and the old stock liners are packed out and toast. Never liked the liners anyway tbh and these mimics look like they could give the boots new life. Thx.
Is there a delay on these liners this year?
I ordered some 25.5s last spring and am being told maybe in January....
Little bit off topic but does anyone know where I can get a redster cs professional in the Pacific Northwest?
Got mine at Best Fit Boots!Quote:
Originally Posted by Eluder
Great service and locally owned and operated-good chance the owner is gonna be the one fitting you.
Any shop that carries Atomic should be able to order directly from Atomic. I don’t know any shop that stocks the redster in the pnw.Quote:
Originally Posted by ASP
ONK, question for ya.
As someone who has tried almost everything to remove instep pressure from my Salomon S/RACE 140 plug boot (liner surgery on the tongue, grinding down a few MM off the boot board, low-volume footbeds, etc.), would the Redster Professional Liner w/ the HV tongue (I think I read that's the tongue that actually takes up the least amount of volume) be worth trying?
Yes, that tongue creates the highest volume fit, with the most space over the instep. For the current year (22/23), make sure you get the Redster TI/STI version of the liner, not the CS version. The TI/STI version will fit exactly into your shell.Quote:
Originally Posted by nyskirat
Just received my High Volume (thinnest) tongues in the mail, I'm excited to see how they feel in my current liners. I have a stupid high instep and its always a pressure point issue for me.
I've been in the Professional liners for over a year and love the hold and support they provide. I've skied nothing but foamed liners for 20+ years, so the foaming process was something I was use to.
The thickness between tongues is not very obvious, its more subtle, but I know how a little material makes a huge difference. I typically have to cut and remove any extra elastic or webbing from the instep of any boots I have ever owned.
I'm using the Hawk Professional Liner, (now) High Volume tongue, and Professional Dual Strap on Lange XT3s.
I'm super happy that Atomic is offering aftermarket options and parts for these liners.
Attachment 439763
Once I ski these a bit I'll report back if they are much different than the Medium volume tongues.
I went the other direction, swapping the stock medium volume tongue for the thicker LV tongue. After skiing it for a handful of days to break in, it is only thicker on the top of the foot. The shin padding is identical. I was hoping it would be thicker top to bottom.
I am also two days in on mine (did they show up in the same shipment as yours at Great Northern?).Quote:
Originally Posted by Eluder
Heel/ankle feels completely locked beyond anything I've felt before both horizontally and vertically. Power transfer feels good although I was hoping they would stiffen my boots up and if anything it feels like they have become a pinch softer. They went into Head Vector Evo 110s which are obviously not the stiffest boot (I was desperate for new boots late season in Whistler a few years ago, that's what they had left in stock that fit my foot, and the price was right)--but they've been good to my feet and skied stiffer than the flex number would indicate.
I was worried about having some forefoot slop after fitting them in the shop. Combination of 100mm last and prior width punches around the little toe made it feel like the liner wasn't quite filling the gap. But on the mountain, especially with slightly thicker socks, it feels fine. More precise than my prior packed out liners (and no clamping down buckles to try and compensate)--hopefully they stay that way. Obviously wouldn't be a problem in a new boot as I might not have needed those punches with this liner.
Feels a little colder than my old liner. I don't usually have cold toes, but I felt a chill and temps weren't particularly low.
We'll see how they wear in. Unfortunately given the stiffness they probably aren't going to buy me as much time in these shells as I'd hoped--I'm not in a rush, but I'll probably be keeping an eye on what shops still have in stock come end-of-season clearance time rather than waiting until next year to start shopping.
Does anyone know if the amount of heat from pre heating the Pro liners before injecting the foam will affect how much the foam will expand at all? Or if that's done only to make the outer panels of the liner to mould perfectly to the shape of the shell?
I've had several Strolz and Sidas Injection liners done without any mentioning about pre heating. But some have blown air into the bladders in advance to make sure nothing is sticking together.
A few weeks ago I had a pair of Mimic Pro liners fitted. Unfortunately one of the liners did not fill up on the inside at all. And the other one was very loose. Unfortunately the bootfitter forgot to hear you the liners according to the instructions.
However after my years of experience with foaming processes I think the fact that I have low volume feet and my size 27,5 is right on the (for low volume feet, wrong) end of the very corse scale that bridges over several sizes without taking volume of feet and volume of shell in consideration.
The shells are Dalbello Krypton's witch I have used along with Strolz liners previously several times with various success. On time the bottles exploded due to the outlet hoses was blocked by the Cabrio tongue (easily avoided by a pair of thick nails). Another liner had an outlet hose come loose, gluing the liner to the shell.
Most liners have been overly tight in the beginning, and one pair was so tight they could not be skiied in since both feet went completely numb.
Intuition liners doesn't fill in out the voids enoug around my bony feer with high insteps.
So the Mimic Pro seems like it could be the middle way combo for decent performance along with comfort.
And inputs on this world be greatly appreciated
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I would say they boot fitter owes you another pair of liners and a do over. The Mimic pro liner is a combination of moldable material and injectable material. So the liner needs to be heated like a traditional mold, then put on, buckled to a "medium" tension then injected. You will need to tell the boot fitter when to stop. For example my left foot is bigger than my right consequently the right foot required a fair bit more foam. You shouldn't by guided solely by the markings on the foam injector tubes.
Quandary is right - a Mimic Professional liner needs to be heated due to the heat moldable Mimic material in the ankle, heel, tongue and carbon cuff. It's not necessarily for the foam portion of the process, but it's a system and it needs to be done according to our process. Appling the Strolz or Sidas etc. process to our system won't yield the correct results.Quote:
Originally Posted by bioicon
Thanks for all the advices. There is a new pair of liners waiting for me at no extra cost, so that's no problem. However the bootfitter is hesitant to go further then the 27,5 mark in case the heat does any difference when it comes to expansion of the foam. I've asked him to double check that with Atomic since it doesn't make sense to me since 2 component foams and glue chemical reactions usually produce a noticible amount of heat by is own.
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You can safely go in between your actual mondopoint setting and the next one without worry. The heat from the liner won't cause any adverse reactions with the PU foam compounds. What doesn't need to happen and shouldn't happen is heating the foam cartridge. That should be at room temperature.Quote:
Originally Posted by bioicon
FWIW I think you need a new boot fitter.Quote:
Originally Posted by bioicon
@onk is this true? I was really hoping it would be the entire tongue, or more specifically, the bottom of the shin so it would push your ankle back.Quote:
Originally Posted by tenB
The MV and LV are the same thickness in the shin area. The LV is 3mm thicker over the instep and into the upward radius of the shell's throat, so it does push your foot rearward a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBC
We originally went 3mm thicker top to bottom but it just caused weird fit issues, even for chicken legs, and pushed people more upright than they wanted.
As an FYI - the MV tongue is noticeably thicker & firmer than anything in our standard Hawx range.
where did you buy the HV atomic tongue? your DM's are full.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dee Hubbs
Hi ONK,
Would the Hawx XTD Mimic Pro liner fit in a Backland XTD Carbon?
I have a narrow foot so afraid that the Backland XTD will be too wide, so leaning to the Hawx Ultra XTD, but if the beefy liner could work in the backland XTD, that may be a good in between.
Thanks!
I tried this and it's a pretty odd fit. Backland XTD's boot board is more rockered (matching the sole profile) and it causes the liner to kink at the midfoot in an odd way. This gets exacerbated with the plastic tongue over the foot. It's not unbearable, but I wouldn't recommend it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nator
Lots of good info here on new liners going into old boots. What is the consensus for new liners and new boots? Can I take off the hose and ski the liner with the injection ports still on the back to see how the boots feel out of the box? Should I have all shell work done before the foam process or can you tweak the shell later without having to redo the foam? If anyone knows a shop around Vancouver that has experience with these let me know. Mine didn't come with the foam cartridges and a few of the shops I've talked to seem a bit mixed up between the regular mimic and the pro.
When putting a Mimic Professional liner into a new boot:Quote:
Originally Posted by oetk2
-You can't ski it first, there's no fit to it. It needs to get made for your foot/shell combo. Do NOT remove anything from the liner.
-Get the fit-related red flags addressed before you do the foaming. You want sufficient space between your bones and the shell in order to have sufficient foam between you and the shell. If you need small tweaks done to the shell afterward, that's fine, and the liner will move into a new space that is made.
-Foam cartridges are sold separately because they eventually expire. In order to manage expired foam, it is stored and sold separately from liners. Whichever shop sold you the liners, should also be selling you the foam.
In the Vancouver area, Comor is usually the main place to get all things Atomic. You'll need to speak with the main boot fitter, not just a kid on the floor.
If you can get up to Whistler, see Barry at Evo in the Village.
Cheers Matt, much appreciated as always. I didn't get the boots and liners at a shop so now scrambling a bit to sort it out. I assume I won't damage anything on the fill system by having them on and walking around to figure out the shell work?Quote:
Originally Posted by onenerdykid
Wearing them won't necessarily hurt anything on its own, but it might not point out issues that may be present. The main way to know when someone can see your foot inside the shell itself. Seeing if your ankle is butting up against the plastic of the shell or navicular etc. is the best way. But what you are doing is another data point too. Just make sure a shell check is done to ensure enough space is between you and the shell wall.Quote:
Originally Posted by oetk2
Thank you!Quote:
Originally Posted by onenerdykid
How much life should I expect to get out of a pair? I got a pair almost exactly a year ago. Let’s say 40-50 days on them.
My right foot still feels good, but my left has just gone totally sloppy and I’m cranking the buckles to get any precision. Maybe my foot has changed (feels like my arch might be collapsing), but something is just not right.
Would a LV tongue help me out here?
That’s what I did after maybe 100 days in my first mimic pro. It gave me the precision I needed!
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