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So a non ski boot question.
I have some low top hikers that have been terrible for me. On a suggestion from my trail running/hiker GF i took out the foot beds which helped the heel lift a ton and gave my normal width high arch feet better room. I could still use a bit more room for my heel to be a tad lower so i want to grind/sand a small pocket. Any tips for working down the hard rubber?
I do have a dremel with a bunch of heads.
But if we were actually relying on using the front of the boot as another point of contact in limiting motion, don’t you think our toes would be more banged up than they are (I.e. more black toes, calluses on front of toes).Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBC
As an addendum to the question, how is it that North America has a reputation for sizing down and Europe not? They’re the ones with the more slender feet. I will say, I’ve been generally less aggressive with sizing people this season, albeit I’m only part time but in the biggest selling boot shop in the area and seemingly I’ve been selling way more skis than boots this season, hallelujah!!!
I have Biomechanics background so do find all this stuff interesting and honestly, the more I learn and experience I have, the more I question how we bootfit. Did anybody listen to the Blister Podcast with the Moment guy, talking about fitting boots more like barefoot runners, foot splay, etc? I’ve always thought this, Skiers Manifesto dude preaches it too, but how do you execute this in reality?
I measure 287-288 long, medium to medium-wide, I prefer the feel of a stock liner MV 27 over LV 28, the MV 27 matches up better in shape, LV 28 feels misshapen. This season skiing same ProWrap liner in LV Mach 130 (slightly tight but fine, bootboard ground right down but to accommodate thicker more padded footbed), Cochise (slightly big, even with 2 Bontex underneath), and Radical Pro. All 27s, all punched for big toe only because it’s square on the inside, all the same thicker more padded footbed).
That’s the biggest question mark in my theory. My answer to that could be that if you know your toes are touching you compensate to protect them and only get beat up toes when your backslap. Maybe it’s like a driver of a car using the steering wheel from getting tossed around. You don’t really think you’re doing it until you sit in the passenger seat and lurch around like the person is driving like a goon. I’m not sure. I’ve been curled up in my boots for years and never lost a toe nail or been bruised. Any boot that has toes that are clear is way too big even if the boot isn’t way bigger. I could see it being totally off but I’ve never seen it discussed.
Side note, Had a client come in the other day with a longer second toe that would bang. Pedorthist suggested they put a bumper on their big toe so it hit first because it is designed to take impact.
No idea on the euro thing but maybe the generalizations make it misleading. Do good skiers not size down there? Do they have different measuring devices? Using the Salomon foot measuring device, if i matched people to their measurement (254 in a 25.5) they would all come back complaining of movement no matter how casual they ski. All my euro friends say the average skier there is very beginner compared to the average skier here.
I have not listened to that podcast. Will have to check it out.
Unless you're skiing at the Europa Cup level or above, you don't (with a few exceptions) have access to bootfitting as we know it in North America. They just bring out a bigger boot when people complain that it hurts, they don't try to modify it. Doesn't make sense, but trying to get a simple fifth met punch done in several well-stocked shops in Austria was super frustrating - I ended up taking a friend back to the hotel, putting like 5 bandaids over the pressure point, and using the hotel hair dryer to get him more room in a pair of Scarpas.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBC
This could be a really dumb question, but is there any material you can use to fill in space that’s been ground out incorrectly?
Dollar bills.Quote:
Originally Posted by altabird92
Man, it's been heel issue week for me. Would love your opinions on this situation:
Customer measures 26.5, D- width, medium instep/volume. Has a good 1.5cm shell fit in a 26.5 Dynafit Radical Pro. Molded liners using toe cap and padded for width at mets. After wearing for an hour, buckles medium snug, in ski mode, he gets numbness at medial side of right heel that wraps around to mid-line back of heel. Also a bit numb under heel. Numbness gets better when boot put into tour mode, and takes about 15 min. to go away after taking the boot off. The heel cup is well formed and snug, but doesn't feel crazy tight. He loves the fit of the boots except for this problem. No issues with the left foot.
I'm not very experienced diagnosing nerve related issues. After looking at some foot charts, I think it's related to pressure on either the lateral calcanial branch of the sural, post tibial or "baxter" nerve. I remolded the liner, added pads to both sides of the heel and this improved things. It makes sense to me that going to walk mode improves things because I think that takes pressure off the heel area. I feel like I've taken advantage of any relief to be had from working on the liner. Inside the shell below the cuff rivets is some thicker plastic that forms the sides of the heel cup. The only other thing I can think to do is grind that plastic thinner, hoping to get more relief. What do you think?
PC-7 Epoxy works wellQuote:
Originally Posted by altabird92
Another heel problem to ask about:
Customer brought in his 26.5 Lange XT3 complaining about painful heel spurs. He measures 27.0, wants a performance fit, is happy with width and instep fit. Shell fit is 0.5"/1.25cm. He has good custom footbeds, but has not been using them in the Langes because they raise the heel up too much. The heel of the footbed is pretty thin already, not sure there is much room to be gained by thinning more. He's had consistent problems with the heel spurs in past boots. Last boot was a Hawx that had pretty aggressive heel punches, and some padding added to the sides of the liner. The thinking there was to make room for the spurs, and help stabilize the heel so it wouldn't move around too much, putting pressure on the spurs. None of this fixed the problem. He said he went to a few bootfitters last season, none were able to fix the problem. He kept commenting that he feels immobilizing the heels is key to minimizing the pressure on the spurs. I agree, but feel that some sort of shell mod is needed to accommodate the spurs.
My initial thoughts were to grind or punch the Lange heels to accommodate the spurs and work on the liner to match the more room in heel. I'm hesitant to do this since it didn't work with the Hawx, but I'm not sure what else to do. Remove the boot board? Would you punch or grind? The plastic around the heel of this boot feels pretty thick, so I'm thinking grind. Any thoughts?
Regardless of whether you grind or punch, locating the precise spot is key - people often go too low when estimating heel spur locations. Depending on how big the spurs are, I would say you're still safer to punch than grind - I doubt the Grilamid is thicker than 4mm, and a safe grind is usually ~ half of the shell thickness, so you only get 2mm . . .Quote:
Originally Posted by natebob
Key aspects retainedQuote:
Originally Posted by natebob
Asses if the heel punches are in the right location. As Greg said, often too low and the spur hits the edge of the punch. The heel will also generally lift slightly when they flex into the boots. Bring whatever punch you made up higher would be a decent starting point.
Also, could be experiencing some inflammation in the Achilles’ tendon as it’s stretched over the bone spurs repeatedly while skiing, especially if pinned between the bone and the boot in a way other footwear doesn’t. treat with naproxen or ibuprofen
Thanks for the location advice Greg. I think the Lange XT3 130 is PU, and the heel feels pretty thick, which is why I was thinking a grind would be easier than a punch. I sure wouldn't try to punch a thin grilamid shell too much.Quote:
Originally Posted by gregL
That makes sense on making sure the punches are high enough- need to plan for a little heel lift. TBC, I haven't done any punches for him yet. He had some done on a different pr. of boots by someone else. I suspect those are too low from how he describes them.Quote:
Originally Posted by XavierD
I think you're right about the Achilles inflamation. He's commented that the area is irritated and is trying to be better about stretching and such.
Thanks for the help.
You're right, the shell on the regular XT3 is PU, but it still isn't plug boot thick - if you grind half the thickness away and it's in the wrong spot, you are kind of hosed. If you punch, you can retract the error with heat (not all the way) and massage its location.Quote:
Originally Posted by natebob
Ok, that makes sense, thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by gregL
Bone spurs in heels can be caused by pronation putting side loading on the Achilles attachment. Does he have orthotics?
He was using custom footbeds in the old boots that had been punched for the spurs. From what he's told me, footbeds didn't help much. He hasn't been using them in the new boots because he feels they raise the foot so it's more in contact with the shell.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBC
@robnow I just listened to that podcast with the Moment guy. Interesting thought, am I the only one whose foot doesn’t seem to swell when touring? Not once have I felt like my boot got tighter over the day, in fact it always gets looser, considerably. And my liner doesn’t offer much room for softening and compressing as the day goes. I agree that you don’t need to be in a vice, but I wouldn’t fit large for room for expansion. I would fit for consideration of cold weather and the risk of frozen toes.
Anyone that is into boot fitting, have a lead on a shop that shut down and now finally selling some of their shop equipment and displays etc. Peterson Labs Boot Leveler, old Raichle Thermo Flex box, SGS- Stance Geometry System platform, True-Fit box, 2 Infrared heaters... They are selling stuff every Friday and Saturday and then will have some remaining stuff sold online (but not sure if Ebay or some other web site.)
Anyone here have recommendations on good boot fitting shops around the SLC area? Looking to have some assessment and work done, but new to the area and haven't been able to check out all the shops yet. Powder House and Lift House look like a good start possibly.
Hey guys. Any recommendations for hardware suppliers for t nuts for buckles and power straps? I find the maislinger-snoli no. 1604 kit has a lot of useless stuff in it. Too small diameter, too short etc.
http://svst.com/Boots/SVST-Boot-Repa...dware-Kit.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBC
anyone else think that boot suppliers should have buckles and hardware available?
I’ve got that SVST one at my house if you want to see it in personQuote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBC
Any recommendations for rolls of cambrelle/footbed covers? I’d prefer to buy it bulk and cut pieces off. I also find the thermic pre shaped covers don’t stick well.
been looking for a couple seasons, the code that 3M has for the product is no longer valid according to 3M industrialQuote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBC
If anyone knows of a shop selling a sole planer and/or toe router, I'm in the market.
Anyone know where to get the piece that can go on the bottom of the boot to keep it straight while toe punching? Or any thoughts on getting one made?
From gregs lovely blog:
Attachment 453110
Barry had that custom fabricated.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_pretzel
http://www.roffb.com/en/prodotto.aspx?idProd=52Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_pretzel
I believe distribution in NA is Montana
Don’t think RoffB is cheap though
Also, that sole attachment isn't really all that stiff and wouldn't necessarily keep the sole from warping - it's just to protect the toe lug from damage from the ring. In any event, you shouldn't be heating any part of the toe lug or sole to do that punch, just the part that needs stretching. The old worry about warping the sole longitudinally comes from the day of using an internal hydraulic expander to do the toe stretch, most people I know use a lever punch now because it's about 5 times faster and more powerful.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_pretzel
GoldenBC had a friend fab up a toe length cup/ball for a lever press. Could PM him for details. I’ve had the same friend weld some improvements to my home boot press and other projects as he is a welding wizard.
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
Check my OP in this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_pretzel
This works amazing. You can do a centimetre deep punch in five minutes. Really heat up the toe but cover the lugs and the rest of the shell. I even ice the lug after heating. On a Kaiser press, this can do some serious damage, so be careful.
My next version will have a cat track type metal soul that clicks on the boot with a super round toe lug that will match the curve on the punch cup. This will make it a little easier to punch at a 45° angle and less likely to distort the boot sole or dent the lug
Attachment 453327Attachment 453328
Let me know, I would chip in to have him make another for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBC
I will also join in on this if I canQuote:
Originally Posted by gregL
Thanks a lot guys!
I actually have a similar project going - I gave some diagrams of prototype tools to a welder/fabricator guy I know. The toe length punch attachment looked like the front of Barry Allison's, but shorter with tabs that wrapped around the sole and with sharp thumb screws on the sides to hold the plate to the boot. The guy had some health problems and kind of fell off the radar, though.
Nonsense post. Please delete.
I'll get drawing and talking. Realistically these probably wouldnt be made until the fall.
Does anyone have a discount code for Masterfit University in Denver?
They have pro pricing? Isn't everyone there in the business already? Take what they say with a grain of salt - they have plenty of ideas that take 5 times as long, like taking the Strobel sole off the liner and slotting it to widen it, then gluing it back on, or bolting the sole of the boot to a board to do a toe length punch. That's fine if you are charging by the hour and your customer has deep pockets. Also, they are in business to try to sell Masterfit's footbed and accessories program (good stuff, but not the only game in town), not necessarily teach you how to use what you already have.Quote:
Originally Posted by natebob
I don't know if they have pro pricing, but when I went to sign up, there was a place to enter a discount code at checkout, so thought I'd ask. I have never heard about a code for their classes, maybe there is one for first time attendees... Copy that on their angle. Thanks Greg.Quote:
Originally Posted by gregL