Great info, thank you! I've never tried ATK, but I'm very intrigued and will probably get a pair the next time I'm in the marked. How are brake sizes? True to size or oversized? (I'm looking at you, Fritschi...)Quote:
Originally Posted by kid-kapow
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Great info, thank you! I've never tried ATK, but I'm very intrigued and will probably get a pair the next time I'm in the marked. How are brake sizes? True to size or oversized? (I'm looking at you, Fritschi...)Quote:
Originally Posted by kid-kapow
Pretty much true to size :) They are at least more true to size than either Fritschi or Salomon/Atomics.
Question for those with ATK usage. Any lateral slop developing in the heel at all? My wife and I have used Salomon/atomic MTN/Backlands for the last 3 seasons and really like the binding, however the heels are all developing lateral slop, which I think is coming from the heel track for length adjustment. I'm thinking that the ATK bindings that have two length tracks (trofeo plus, haute route, that wouldn't be as vulnerable to this problem?
Zero slop between Mrs. Plug and I. Ha.Quote:
Originally Posted by kevino
4th season on Raider 12 2.0
Would be curious to get feedback on my gameplan for the BD Helio 180s / ATK Trofeo Plus that just showed up at my door:
Setup #1 (lightweight spring ski, I will only use with a 310 BSL boot)
-Toes with quiver killers
-Heel with QK (no adjustment track, just the heel to save a few grams)
Setup #2 (powder ski, I may use a 310 or 327 bsl boot based on day)
-Toes with quiver killers
-Mount heel track with traditional mount (would just attach heel onto track, might later QK if needed)
My powder boards may not come back out this season, so my most pressing question is whether it's ok to mount the heel piece without the track. My guess is this is the same as the standard BD 145 / ATK trofeo. Looks like the screws will stick out about 0.5 mm longer than when going thru the adjustment track, but dont think that will matter.
Uhh idk if the heel plate screws are the same as the heel screws, but skimoco definitely sells them. Fwiw I would really avoid mounting without the plate... the extra weight is not worth the remount when you change boots. Also your mount needs to be absolutely perfect without the plate...
Thanks! Called skimo and they said screws should be the same. Gonna do a test mount using some plexiglass to see if I can get the paper template transferred absolutely perfect, otherwise I'll just stick with the plate. Agree that 40g is meaningless. If I'm totally honest, I just like the clean look!
Assuming it's the same mounting strategy as the Haute Route/Helio 200, the heel mounts to the plate with MACHINE screws that thread into small T-nuts in the mounting plate.
The mounting plate employs the same WOOD screws you'd mount the Trofeo/BD 145 directly to the ski with.
[edit]When @auvgeek and I mounted a pair of his Speed Superlites, it took 4 or 5 test mounts to adjust our template to get the pin gap right. We were admittedly OCD about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dshack89
[/edit]
... Thom
Just to confirm what has already been posted: the 145 and 180 are the same bindings. The only difference is that the 180 is a really great deal by bundling in some nice accessories (the leash is really slick -- I've been using it for something like half a decade with other bindings) including the adjustment plates and bolts/nuts.
The screws for mounting the binding heel directly to the ski are exactly the same as the screws for mounting the adjustment plate to the ski. (When you order the adjustment plate a la carte, you therefore typically do not receive any additional mounting screws, only the bolts & nuts.)
And remember, it's a time-honored tradition to mount any binding sans adjustment plates since the boots you currently have are the absolute best boots in the world that you're definitely going to use forever and ever ... until a couple years later you sheepishly remount that setup with an adjustment plate.
^thanks!
Ended up mounting the BD 180 heel directly because I'm stubborn. I drilled some plexiglass over the paper template to make a jig and then did a test mount on a 2x4. Turned out great. I may go with my inserts strategy later (or just use that as a sales pitch to my wife for getting another touring ski). I did a quick tour this morning until a storm rolled in and cut short the corn cycle....didn't die.
First impressions: I really liked the ease of stepping into the toe and the riser over pins was plenty of height for me without being annoying on more flattish sections (definitely helpful to have lots of ROM). Kick turns were comically easy.
yeah those bindings are the absolute shit. I picked up another pair just because they were < $300 and now I have an excuse to pick up more skis :fm:
Glad I'm not the only one who did exactly that!Quote:
Originally Posted by mall walker
Yeah don't have any skis to put them in but what a deal...Quote:
Originally Posted by mall walker
Any advice on whether to go up or down in RV for springs on these? Ski a "9" on pretty much everything so I'm in between springs, but I guess who knows how well these numbers correlate with real DIN.
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I’m on the 10, Id be at an 8 on alpine stuff but I reeeeeeally don’t like prerelease in the bc. I have not released from this one, or pretty much any 8+ “RV” race style binding. I’d always err on the side of more retention for this style binding but that’s personal preference I guess...
Interesting. That's 2 folks on the ten who normally ski below that. Anyone normally ski at something around 11 or 12 running the ten and not dying?
I shoulda grabbed some atk/bd while they were cheap, now back to 344
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Still 284 on S&CQuote:
Originally Posted by riff
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PSA the new Hagen Core 12 Pro which is the R12 is $100 off for pre order. Good price for full US support and warranty.
Nice. Too bad they're sold out on the freeride spacer.Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliBrit
I ski a 12 or 13 inbounds and usually 10 - 11 in the backcountry. I am on the crest 10 and loving it for my spring setupQuote:
Originally Posted by nickel
BD website says the helio 180 has 3 riser heights but it looks like just a single "race style" flap over the pins. Presume it does flat with 1/4 turn rotation.
The helio 200 seems to have the extra riser though.
What am i missing on the 180?
if you rotate the heel 180 degrees with the flap in “open” mode there is a sliiiiiightly higher riser. I haven’t used it, but it is technically there.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcpnz
^ The add'l heel riser height from rotating the 145/180 model by 180 degrees (and then flipping the flap by 180 degrees in the other plane) is listed as 5mm, which matches up with my own measurements. Note that you should *not* do this on similarly designed race bindings -- like the 110 -- since although you will get a similar boost, won't last for long since you'll break the flap.
(And remember to mount the binding correctly: the BD website has it mounted backwards, which means a 90-degree turn for the flat mode will result in the boot heel jamming up against the binding.)
The 145/180/200 have similar riser implementation.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcpnz
Pins forward, you have race style - flap over pins.
Rotate 180 degrees and you have flat plus a slightly higher riser (but by no means high).
I defer to Jonathan on details and gotchas on the race binding specific stuff.
... Thom
Does/will Backwoods have them?Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliBrit
I actually don’t know if they carry ATK. I suggested them to Michael as a great shop to carry them. Along with the Perch. They won’t have this binding yet as it will be here in fall. Sounds like they are opening tomorrow for limited business.Quote:
Originally Posted by hafjell
I think they carried the ATK under the BD brand this season. Looking forward to the new addition.Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliBrit
Good time to buy; good time to hold cash. Confusing.
I’m steep&cheaped on the BD Helio 180. Thx for all the info guys. Mounting these up on my early season rock skis....waiting to get my hands on some Atk FR 14 or BD equivalent for my main set up...
Just since folks have asked about the high heel riser / heel flap on the Helio 180 / Trofeo Plus and I had my skis out, I took some pics. These are the ATK branded ones. I own a pair of the BD branded ones, just haven’t mounted them yet. They are literally identical aside from the paint.
Attachment 327157
Attachment 327159
Attachment 327160
Attachment 327161
Attachment 327162
Attachment 327163
I’m realizing I should’ve taken a flat mode picture but you can use your imagination... the heel piece is sideways and the boot is flat ;)
It's worth cross-posting this tip about the Helio 180s/Trofeo Plus from the BD Helio thread. It seems as if BD and Outdoor Gear Lab rotated the mount by 180 degrees. Use ATK's mount orientation and not BD's:
https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...76#post5862476
Quote:
https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...quote_icon.png Originally Posted by hillmap https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...post-right.png Just picked up some trofeo pluses (helios 180s). Getting ready to mount them i noticed that the heal track/baseplate are shown in opposite directions on the BD site and and the ATK one.
It looks like the binding is designed with a slightly offset detent for the sideways position so if you mount it the atk way you get less heel binding in flat mode. And at least the outdoor gear lab review mounted it the BD way and complained about binding.
... ThomQuote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan S.
Could you compare FR14 and Ion/Shift in downhill aspect?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreemcheese
How true to size are the stated brake widths for ATK bindings?
They are true.Quote:
Originally Posted by lucknau
These are 91mm brakes on Zero G95:
The R12 that Blister just reviewed -- is that new for 2020? I cant keep track
R12 was 19/20. Same as FR14 with no freeride spacer and 12 din. I’d just buy the FR14.Quote:
Originally Posted by margotron
For 20-21 there's another version of the Raider 12 available called the C-Raider 12. The C-Raider 12 is same Raider 12 binding from last season but the toe base material made from a carbon composite (same material as used on the Alpinist toe) to drop the weight by 35g and reduce the weight of a single toe/heel/brake to just 305g. The C-Raider heel also accepts the optional Freeride Spacer. And, in addition to being lighter, the C-Raider is 11% cheaper than the Raider 12.
I know a couple of guys (both big'ish & aggressive) who've had a lot of mileage on pre-production C-Raiders and they've had no issues with durability of the toe base. The C-Raider 12 will kill off the Raider 12 due to it being lighter/cheaper.
So if you want a lower minimum din than 8 or don't need a very high din then the C-Raider c/w Freeride Spacer is both 10% lighter and cheaper than the FR14.
I'd still buy the R12 because it's prettier and doesn't have the exposed springs at the toe :)Quote:
The C-Raider 12 will kill off the Raider 12 due to it being lighter/cheaper.
Well you can't go wrong with the "look good at all costs" rule.Quote:
Originally Posted by stuntmanbo
Do you know if the C-Raider 12 comes with the freeride spacer included as a bundle or it's extra ?
And did they keep the system where you can set the toe release force when walking ?
It's an extra. My weight/cost comparison above with the FR14 includes the freeride spacer with the C-Raider.Quote:
Originally Posted by stuntmanbo
Nope.Quote:
Originally Posted by stuntmanbo