FWIW - other than losing range in cold weather, none of the issues that dcpnz mentioned exist on my Chevy Bolt. I'll update more later.
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FWIW - other than losing range in cold weather, none of the issues that dcpnz mentioned exist on my Chevy Bolt. I'll update more later.
I didn't know about the service mode for wipers, thanks. Do you know you can press the button on the left wand and on-screen the on/off wiper button appears? It's a recent update. The 'regen limited' in cold weather wasn't in existence last winter for me, AKAIK, so it's a new thing that they hopefully will adjust in the next update. But that change in braking you have I haven't noticed. And have you looked into the 1.5" riser kits? I'm debating one. As for the windows needing to go down, that was an update last winter to prevent frozen doors that people in Quebec were having, the windows go down and break up the ice seal or something like that, but guess it doesn't work for you?Quote:
Originally Posted by dcpnz
You spend more time in high elevation cold weather than me I think, I had my car all last winter in Utah doing short trips up in the mountains and never had frozen windows, worry about running out of juice, etc.
It’s from driving in below freezing wet/humid weather, then transferring to below freezing, you drive up and all that moisture is still on the windows and then it freezes.Quote:
Originally Posted by muted
It happensed almost every night at our place in Tahoe because the skiing was so close to the freezing temperature.
Did not know about the left button press to bring up wiper controls - will have to try that. Less screen taps required is good.
I’m at 8,000’ in CO. I suspect the door/window issue is a function of consistent melt freeze cycles. Warm solar radiation during day melting snow on the car and then well below freezing temps overnight throughout season . Happens on my ford suv all the time too but unlike the tesla m3 the windows don’t need to operate on that to get in and out of it.
There were a lot of eTravelers late for Thanksgiving dinner this year..
https://www.facebook.com/shanon.stel...1275983794800/
Kettleman City, CA I-5
(This was a repost)
Shoulda gotta an ICE rental for that driveQuote:
Originally Posted by SumJongGuy
Audi E-tron and Jag flopped. Poor sales.
Tesla is running circles around rivals like Audi and Jaguar, and battery range is only one of the biggest reasons why
This year, Jaguar's I-Pace SUV and Audi's e-tron SUV have sold an average of around 217 and 628 units per month in the US,
Enter the Porsche Taycan.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4matic
If that Fisker Ocean crossover that was just announced can actually meet their price target, it may do well. Especially if AWD.
In related news, check this out. Obviously it was only a matter of time...
https://ww.electrek.co/2020/01/06/wa...tesla-nissan/#
Dang, that's cool. IHNIQuote:
Originally Posted by LightRanger
Oh, and tank turn:
I'm as skeptical as most, but dang - that's undeniably cool. Both the the tank turn, and the EV running your house during an outage! Seems like we're getting pretty darn close - hope the world doesn't go up in flames, or crumble into a pile of rubble, in the near future.
It’d be a fun experience in an icy empty parking lot!!
I’d like to see that “tank turn” done on dry pavement.
With the weight of that thing it would roast the tires off in no time.... paging Ken Block.Quote:
Originally Posted by bodywhomper
Seems like it wouldn't bother the tires at all if done gently.
Dang. AWD 304 hp Nissan Leaf. Coming next year.
https://www.motor1.com/news/378219/n...ectric-motors/
500 lb-ft torque!Quote:
Originally Posted by plugboots
Where do you see a release date?Quote:
Originally Posted by plugboots
If they can get it under $40k with at least ~200 mi of range, that may be my next vehicle.
"Even though the sporty Leaf is not going into production...."Quote:
Originally Posted by plugboots
I don't think it is coming soon, did I read it right?
That's what I got. Maybe plugboots was assuming they were going to offer it because it's a test vehicle for their next-gen EV which is due to be released soon?
Hell, I'd take AWD with less HP and torque than the concept car but decent range in a fun EV that's cheaper than a Model 3 LR AWD. Seems like a no-brainer for Nissan and Chevy to make AWD Leafs and Bolts.
You read it right. This is a concept/test car. Not a production vehicle.Quote:
Originally Posted by muted
So it looks like its a testbed for a new dual-motor system that *is* likely to go into the Nissan Ariya Crossover that's due out in 2021.
But the HP and torque specs will not necessarily be the same.
Oops, sorry about the AWD Leaf coming to the US. I obviously was on drugs.
Yeah Nissan stopped doing interesting cars a while back. Although Godzilla lives on.
OK, I have a little over 5k miles on my 2019 Chevrolet Bolt now so can share some more thoughts on the actual car and EVs in general.
First off, after driving an EV daily for a few months, I can confidently say that more people should be driving EVs. Ignoring the environmental arguments entirely, they are legitimately better for the majority of driving that most people do.
-they are much quieter and more pleasant than an ICE car. Unlike an ICE car, there is zero vibration, which you never realized was annoying until it's gone.
-one pedal driving is the shit in traffic or in the city. You have no idea how annoying it is to jump between the gas and brake, until you don't have to anymore. This coming from someone that grew up racing and LOVES manual transmission cars on a twisty mountain road. I've always conceded that auto transmissions were better than manual for stop and go driving but one pedal EV driving is a whole 'nother level of better.
I'll note that it's technically possible to have one pedal driving on an ICE car through electronics but I'm not aware of any that do
I'll also note that you definitely want to turn one pedal mode OFF when driving in the snow
-no throttle lag, ever. I didn't realize how much lag there actually is in even a normally aspirated, manual transmission ICE car until I jumped in the EV. You touch the throttle, you get power instantly. And speaking of power...
-generally speaking, EVs punch way above their class in terms of power, particularly torque, which in practical terms means your ability to accelerate. I'm not saying that my Bolt compares favorably to a Camero. I'm saying when you compare it to other vehicles in the same class - affordable compact hatchbacks - it's way more powerful, and in a way that's actually useful, like making a move into the left lane on a congested freeway or to make a pass on a two lane highway.
-you start every morning fully fueled, meaning you never have to go to the gas station to make it to work when you're already late. "Man I really wish I spent more time at the gas station" - said no one ever. Plugging in every evening and unplugging every morning quickly becomes habit and takes 10 seconds to do.
-heaters blow hot right away without waiting for anything to warm up, and every EV has remote start because you want to be able to warm up the vehicle while still connected to shore power
So what's the downside? Charging infrastructure for long trips, and choice of models. I don't think cost because for most people that can afford to buy a new car anyway, once you factor in the tax credits, discounts/actual selling price offered by the manufacturer, and compare the creature comforts and features apples to apples, drastically reduced maintenance costs, and reduced fuel costs, EVs really aren't much different in terms of actual price than comparable ICE cars. I think that's particularly true because most people think they need much more range than they actually do, which I'll get to in a bit.
Charging infrastructure for long trips: this is still a thing, and one that's unlikely to be solved in the short term without a massive investment in infrastructure by our government. There's just not enough chargers in not enough places, right now. It's not impossible to do long trips but the best solution right now is to still own an ICE car. Most households with more than one person also own more than one vehicle so other than needing to get over the idea of "my car" and "her car" this problem is already solved. Daily driving I commute 100mi in the EV and my wife commutes 7mi in the Forester. If I'm going skiing without her, I drive the Forester and she drives the Bolt. If we're going somewhere for the weekend we take the gas guzzling Lifted Tundra Camper, which is a luxury - we could easily manage with just the Bolt and the Forester.
Choice of models: improving, but there's still only a handful of choices, and I get that. Again I think people need to think about what they ACTUALLY need. You don't need two big ass SUVs to ferry the kids around unless you're Morman and have like 10 kids. You need one, which can be your ICE car. You use that when you actually need the space. Your other car can and should be a smaller EV, that's what you drive when you have 3-4 people and not a ton of stuff. My brother-in-law has 4 kids and owns a 3-row SUV and honestly he could easily run a Bolt or a Leaf for his family's second car. A FWD EV is also much better in the snow than a FWD ICE car due to the weight and weight distribution, making AWD/4WD much less important.
Range: I think most people think they need much more range than they actually do. Yes, things like driving at highway speed, cold weather, snow tires, etc. will negatively affect the actual range. But that's fine because you probably don't actually drive that much. I drive 100mi every day, sometimes up to 130ish if I detour out to go mountain biking or to an event after work. My real world range on the Bolt has been somewhere around 185mi for the way I drive, my commute, and the weather this winter. I average 3.0mi/kWh. I've just never had an issue coming close to running out of battery and I bet I drive more than the vast majority of people daily. Again, you have to remember that you're starting every day fully fueled. For most people, a lower range, cheaper EV like the Nissan Leaf, VW e-Golf, Hyundai Ioniq, or even Mini Cooper SE would be totally fine and you can buy one of those for probably $20-25k. If you do drive as much as me, the Chevy Bolt, Nissan Leaf Plus, Hyundai Kona EV, Kia Niro EV, or base model Tesla are great options.
OK, so the actual car itself.
Pros:
-all the EV things above
-it's spacious and has plenty of cargo space for a daily driver. 4 adults fit comfortably even really tall people
-the tech features are great for a vehicle priced as it is. Android Auto on the big touchscreen is great, and all the controls are well laid out and intuitive with a good combination of touchscreen/electronic menus and physical buttons. A few things are done differently than traditional cars but generally better (for example, the climate control)
-this is subjective, but I like the appearance of and quality of the interior finishes.
-sound system is good for a stock system, although I'll probably replace speakers at some point (which is normal for me)
Cons:
-it's kinda ugly from the outside, too egg shaped and tall. Again, subjective
-too tall. I'm 5'9" and with the seat dropped as low as it goes I have like 8" of space above my head. I get that I'm not tall but the roof is excessively high
-the seating position is too high for my tastes and the steering wheel doesn't telescope out far enough. Again preference, but you sit in the Bolt more like an SUV than a car.
-the suspension is too soft. Punching the throttle with any steering input gives you a disturbing amount of torque steer and the front end wants to wander instead of staying planted.
-I have the LT trim with all the packages and the driver aids are somewhat underwhelming, especially compared to how good ProPilot is in the Nissan Leaf. Everything works fine, but this car really should have adaptive cruise control at a minimum. It also really should offer power seats as an option.
All in all the Bolt is a great car and they are readily available and Chevy dealers are practically giving them away.
Thanks for the excellent writeup adrenalated.
I've driven a Tesla S and was suprememly impressed with the instant power and the insane amount of it. To be honest it's a bit scary to think of the 'average' driver being able to accelerate that fast.
A PHEV that can run on all electric around town and go into hybrid mode for longer trips seems just about perfect. I'm looking hard at the Mitsubishi Outlander...just wish it was a Toyota.
So NOT the new plug in hybrid RAV 4?Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbowski
I thought the RAV4 was coming in 2021. There are someQuote:
Originally Posted by plugboots
other SUV/crossover PHEVs already out, I’m sure everyone has one planned.
That RAV4 is a 2021 model, reportedly available in summer 2020. I'm interested in it so am following stories on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbowski
Did you do anything to the seats? I test drove a bolt and the lack of lumbar support hurt in 10 minutes. I liked the car otherwise and you can get on for $20kish here. Waiting for egos deals and might go that way for the right price.
Quote:
Originally Posted by adrenalated
I just drove a fully loaded Tesla Model 3 sport around the San Mateo mountains and car is the bomb. Quiet (cabin is quiet too), powerful, excellent handling, good ride for 20 inch rims. The only negative I found was wind noise through the roof but I drive S-Class so I'm spoiled in that respect.
Also, when I was driving i mentioned that the car felt a lot like a Mercedes. Mercedes did own 10% of Tesla and a lot of the parts are sourced from Mercedes
"I am picking up my new P85D tomorrow! I know from reading this forum that a number of components in the Model-S come from Mercedes or their suppliers. I believe they include:
- The "transmission" shift stalk
- The indicator stalk
- Cruise control stalk
- The steering wheel
- The air suspension (if fitted)
- The door window controls."
I drive a Subaru 2016 Impreza manual trans 38 - 45 miles RT about 5+ days a week which adds up to an average amount, maybe 12,000 miles annualy. I bet 10k miles are these short trips and 2k miles are longer drives. It's a good car, I like it, it's good for going skiing, but I don't drive it to the mountains that much in winter. We have a Forester which we prefer for skiing 90% of the time. The resale on the Impreza seems decent at the moment. I'm getting tired of burning gas for all of this city/highway/lowland/traffic/commute driving where its not necessary. It's just starting to feel stupid. I love going places and don't like spewing shit into the air when there are legitimately good alternatives. I would also like some QOL improvements for commuting that are more common with EVs like a quiet ride, no shifting, and adaptive cruise control.
I'm thinking about a 2017 Chevy Volt for these reasons:
-The used prices are pretty cheap, like $20k with every option including adaptive cruise control. When I factor in the low cost to drive, I think I would actually save money compared to my Impreza. I like the idea of getting something that has depreciated a lot already.
While I love AWD, I don't really need it on my commute car 99% of the time.
-I like the overall size/length of the Volt, seems very similar to the Impreza which I find ideal. People seem to say it handles well.
The back seats are small, but this car will have 1-2 passengers 90% of the time.
-People who have owned this car generally seem to like and it the battery range does not seem to diminish too much.
-There is no sales tax on this car if purchased used in WA state
-While the all electric range is not huge at 53 miles, I think that I would still be able to drive about 90% of the miles on this car electric only just because I do so many trips in that range. I honestly think it is just enough. I do still need to be able to occasionally drive the car further without range anxiety and don't want to be stopping to charge on the side of the highway at this point. A 200+ mile EV would probably be fine, but outside of the Bolt those seem much more expensive at this time.
-The Bolt does not have Adaptive Cruise Control. I have to creep along in highway traffic several times a week and it sort of makes me crazy. I want it to be more tolerable.
Feel free to make other suggestions or convince me otherwise! This area is filled with Tesla nuts. I'm sure the Model 3 is amazing, but I just don't want to sink that much money into a car that is for utility. I would much prefer to get something already used and not worry about every tiny scratch and ding. I'm sure the Volvo XC40 Recharge and other forthcoming AWD EVs will be great, but I don't want to be an early adopter, don't want the steep depreciation curve on a new/expensive car, and other than the Tesla none of them are really out yet. The Rav4 Prime will probably be very good (I rode in the hybrid and liked it) but it's not out yet, the electric range is not quite as much as the Volt, it will be more expensive, and I want a compact car for commuting.
I think a 2018 Nissan Leaf has adaptive cruise, I could consider that. Range is a little shortish, and the car looks smaller/less substantial overall. I do a lot of highway driving on horrible pavement and am less psyched on that car for some reason. I wish that AWD Leafs, Bolts, Imprezas, Kona EVs were already out and about, but they are not going to be for a little while, I think.
So you can see I've thought about it a bit - still interested to hear what the brain trust has to say!
^^^ you seem to be on the right track. The other one worth considering is a 2019 Nissan Leaf Plus with ProPilot, if you can find one at a deal. That gives you a 200+mi range and ProPilot (adaptive cruise control plus nearly self steering) is really really good.
Why they don't offer the Bolt with adaptive cruise control is a mystery to me. That said, creeping along in traffic with one pedal driving is infinitely more tolerable than doing it in a traditional car.
Quite a few new Bolts advertised for around $25k on Autotrader.
Performance version? I'm don't think the other versions are exactly Mercedes-like but the performance version is a different beast.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4matic
Yeah, per Musk's book they wanted to model Tesla after Mercedes as much as possible and I do recall some sort of partnership until Mercedes woke up and realized they were going to be a direct competitor going after their customers.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4matic
Mercedes owned the stock and took profit.
I read but can’t verify that the Tesla Model S chassis is same as Mercedes S- class but all aluminum.
Yeah, I want to say they were using their actual frame to begin with. I cannot recall, but certainly a strong connection was there for a bit.
How are you liking the new ride?
It appears that ProPilot was introduced to the 2018 Leafs and the non-plus version go for less the $20k used which is not too bad. 150 miles range is ok, but that becomes a pure commute/day trip car - albeit probably a very good one. I don't think the Volt has one pedal driving, so it probably makes sense to try a few different options and see what seems most useful to me.