That part that makes no sense about that pic is that it is tongues in, and toe piece off. Supposedly you can leave the toe piece on for short tours (i.e. when your tongues would be in).Quote:
Originally Posted by iriponsnow
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That part that makes no sense about that pic is that it is tongues in, and toe piece off. Supposedly you can leave the toe piece on for short tours (i.e. when your tongues would be in).Quote:
Originally Posted by iriponsnow
Quote:
Originally Posted by thejongiest
Oh...say less
Now I have very little trust in Marker reading the Kingpin thread, but if this sucker doesn't pre-release (or explode) - it could be pretty nice.
Photo art direction is a bitch :fm:Quote:
Originally Posted by doebedoe
Agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by thefortrees
This looks like a Rube Goldberg machine of a binding; the fiddle factor plus a snow and ice packing nightmare.
Considering Marker can't even get the simple stuff right, I wouldn't touch these with with a 10 foot pole.
I don't think they look horrible. Ice packing might be a problem. But what can this do better/lighter/etc than a shift?
Hard to say until they have been in the wild for a bit, however, those engagement points are well forward of where the boot sole has contact with the binding. Maybe I am an outlyer here, however I can't remember ever having an issue with ice build up with any of my bindings (alpine our touring), it's always on my boot sole.Quote:
Originally Posted by thefortrees
I've had some minor issues with the cavity where the brake latch goes on the Shift packing up when yoyoing laps, and having to scrape it out with a pole to get the brakes to latch. But it hasn't ever been hard to dig out, and that's in a spot where the boot sole is pushing snow down in. You're likely right that having the connection points away from the boot sole helps here.Quote:
Originally Posted by ACH
I guess we'll see once they've been out in the wild for a bit.
Had buyers remorse after just purchasing a pair of shifts but not really
Not gonna fiddle with photo editing but it looks like they're also utilizing the toe pins for retention with the alpine piece.Quote:
Originally Posted by reckless toboggan
I've had ice buildup under the springs of Plum Guide toe pieces that prevented the toe wings from closing completely. Quick cleanout with a ski pole usually fixes the problem. Maintenance during transitions is the best solution. Click them open and closed a few times by hand before putting on skins and stepping in.Quote:
Originally Posted by ACH
Curious to see how this pans out for the new Duke, and only real use over time well tell... is the primary vertical locking mechanism that latch? That's what I'm seeing in the pic but could be very wrong. If ice builds up in the baseplate latch or the toepiece latch, much like the ice under the springs of my tech toes, I can see a scenario where the toe piece "clicks" into place but isn't fully locked in.
Right, but the springs are under your boot sole, yes?Quote:
Originally Posted by thefortrees
I think one of the reasons I don't get icing under tech toes is that I rarely take the ski off to pull skins.
If your main objection to CAST is that it relies on a trusted and well tested binding platform, this looks like the perfect alternative
Wait, huh? Why would you ever pick this over the shift? (Unless you are the 0.5% who actually need a DIN higher than 13)
If you ^^ never walk around in snow you probably won't get any buildup under springs or in pin holesQuote:
Originally Posted by ACH
But if you do wlak around in snow you must clear the springs and pins ( click the wings and swing your foot back n forth before stomping down ) on ANY tech binding every single time or they are gona fall off
I've seen some long time tech users that don't know they should clear the binding so they wana turn them up or lock them out when they fall off
the worst thing you can do on a tech binding is course work or any kind of work really especialy in a snow storm, trying to carry things so you haven't got a pole so you can't get out or in, trying step in carrying things without clearing
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyskirat
^^^ yes, exactly what I was thinking when I saw this
It’s still a Duke...an Alpine binding trying to impersonate a touring binding. But still think they will sell a ton of them because most people still like lifts and really are slack country skiers.
Yeah, I get that.Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX-er
As a general practice, if the ski comes off I cycle the binding a couple of times and check to make sure the mech is clear.
Symantics i know, but i've always considered the Duke to be an (overly heavy) alpine binding with a walk mode.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandit Man
I think it looks pretty sweet.
Obviously it's a Marker, and fiddle factor is high, so I'm sure as shit not buying this until its had a season or two for the eager public to test out.
But assuming it's reasonably functional without any femur-snapping flaws, I'd put this on pretty much any inbounds ski that I use for quick sidecountry powder seeking excursions. Tough to say without fondling it, but it looks like its a bit more stout than the Shift, which means it'd (hopefully) hold up better in the long term on a ski that's primarily getting used inbounds. The heel looks identical-ish to a Jester (which isn't my preferred inbounds binding, but is more or less fine). And it seems like there's ultimately less moving parts in the toe than the Shift, and the AFD looks simpler.
I also see it as a popular option among the legions of people that mostly gape around inbounds and have a penchant for hiking uphill on the blue groomer / designated uphill route, but refuse to leave the ski area boundary because avalanches.
I guess its technically ice build up under the springs on the skiQuote:
Originally Posted by ACH
and clogged pin holes are kind of the boot sole
I've seen really a experianced guide about to turn up a client's bindings cuz of snow/ice buildup and you don't really want to be the know it all
except for here on TGR
Ya know, sometimes I wonder why you even have skins with all that mediocre terrain outside of your tiny hill.Quote:
Originally Posted by ACH
LOL what? That Marker toe is a nightmare of moving parts.Quote:
Originally Posted by toast2266
As far as I can tell, it's just a normal-ish tech toe with an alpine "hood" that snaps over the top. That seems a lot less complicated than the shift that has pieces transforming out of the way.Quote:
Originally Posted by kathleenturneroverdrive
I don't know. I laughed out loud when I watched the animation of the toe piece transitioning on the Marker site. Could just be me, but it seems like a lot of moving parts compared the lever on the Shift. I also can't stand products that have parts that have to go in a pack. I did that once and vowed never again.
I agree with you on the Jester heel though. Those things are fine.
More DIN dick measuring :DQuote:
Originally Posted by bsavery
Funny because it's true.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhetherMan
Seems like a great time for Look to make an investment in CAST. Simple, proven to work, doesn’t bastardize an already working binding, and it’s pretty indestructible.
I tried the Shift and learned my lesson, I’ll stick with CAST until the issues are worked out with this new Duke, even then I’ll probably still stick with CAST.
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
What was your lesson from Shift?Quote:
Originally Posted by skibrd
Yeah. I mean, I'd say there's a better than even chance this thing will suck due to Marker fucking up the execution. But having a piece of the binding that has to securely snap into place doesn't seem that hard, especially since forward pressure from the boot will theoretically help hold it in place.Quote:
Originally Posted by kathleenturneroverdrive
But yeah, I don't disagree about having removable parts that go in the pack. The only reason it doesn't really bother me is because I see this binding as being used for 90% inbounds, with just the occasional short tour. If I actually want to go walk around, I'll use a real touring setup.
This Marker setup is basically the "obvious" implementation of the Shift. I actually think the engineering of the Shift toe is pretty darn amazing, aside from the AFD. And I think the AFD is a shit show because Marker has the sliding AFD patented (guessing, idk) and the typical way Salomon did AFD height adjustment was by adjusting the wings, not the AFD.
But I think the Shift engineers fucked up the heel piece, it just doesn't have enough damping. A little beefier and I think all these issues with it would be gone.
EDIT: Now that I say this, I'm kinda tempted to try the shift toe with a Tecton or Marker heel...
Not going to work ya jong.Quote:
Originally Posted by thejongiest
Shift toe requires forward pressure to work. Just like all alpine toes. The Tecton and Kingpin heel exert no forward pressure.
But this new marker heel presumably exerts forward pressure.Quote:
Originally Posted by doebedoe
A couple things:
What makes you think a Tecton or Kingpin heel would offer any more damping than the shift heel. The shift heel really isn’t part of any it’s ongoing issues.
Also, both the tecton and KingPin clearly have forward pressure, as you set the forward pressure indicator on both. Neither have as much as a traditional alpine binding.
Tecton heel is adjusted to maximize bite on the boot heel lug, but with zero forward pressure. If someone adjusts a boot incorrectly and dials in some forward pressure, the return-to-center operation of the toe carriage gets sticky or fails completely.
Fine-adjust heel one click at a time until a click results in no forward movement of heel, then back off one click. Check toe return-to-center to confirm. (Poor return to center can also be incorrect toe pin adjustment, but Dynafit spec fittings are usually fine out of the box.)
As far as I can identify:
Attachment 300526
I am 100% sure that plenty of honkys are gonna buy this, and have at least one day this season where they get to the top and realize that they left the toe hoods in their other pack.
Begging the question, can the tech toe be used to ski downhill at all?Quote:
Originally Posted by cydwhit
Absolutely in Tech Tele mode.Quote:
Originally Posted by MegaStoke
I. CANT. WAIT.Quote:
Originally Posted by cydwhit
Stack height of 27mm is bogus FTR.
My second favorite downhill mode, eclipsed only by "Splitboard Split Ski Soft Boot Tele Mode." Man, I love long creekbed exits with snowboarders.Quote:
Originally Posted by iriponsnow
But seriously, stoked to see Marker try to keep up. Not interested in giving up Shift / Vipecs / CAST for this though.
The removable hoods seem like such a recipe for disaster. And letting them stay sort of on seems even dumber? Like, what happens when I leave them on in the open position for a yo-yo lap and then screw up a kick turn in deep snow and spend an hour digging for the hood I knocked off?
And what are the odds that Amer comes out with a 16 din Shift this SIA? Pretty dang high I'd guess.