Quick transition and no small pieces to fiddle with is worth the stack height. I have an extra set of first gen Attack Demo (that I believe I scored from you, Muggy) I'm ready to hack them up too. Keep us informed. Thanks
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Quick transition and no small pieces to fiddle with is worth the stack height. I have an extra set of first gen Attack Demo (that I believe I scored from you, Muggy) I'm ready to hack them up too. Keep us informed. Thanks
I’ll post a how-to when I do it. I’m 95% confident this will work really really well
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Muggy, admire the effort as a well known tinkerer.
The one piece I'm struggling a little bit to follow (and I am following beacuse I am going to be building a Lindahl setup soon, though probably with wardens) is what problem this solves? Just not having the tech toe and the alpine binding both attached on the way down?
Not having to skin up with an extra 5cm of tail, mainly. The tech toe boot center has to be way ahead of the alpine toe boot center. Having 4 extra holes in the ski aren’t ideal either.
Again, maybe I’m wrong and the tech toe being +5cm is not an issue? But with a long ski (these will be going on my 189 Kusalas) that seems like a lot of tail for kick turns and would mess with traction on steep climbs too.
You can also share the skis now with different boot sizes without having to worry about where the heel risers will hit.
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I don't think it would mess with traction much, but kick turns are likely less fun with 5cm more tail. While it hasn't been a problem for her yet, she does have long legs, good flexibility and shorter skis, so it works for her.
This is one of those things that should’ve been “invented” years ago. Thanks Lindahl.
Now, if anyone is holding some Attack2s feel free to drop me a PM.
I am about ready to cannibalize the donor toes (Attack 1 demo). After removing the binding stuff (spring and wings) how does one make a surface parallel to the base? band saw? table saw? belt sander?
I’m planning on first removing the afd and long afd bolt. Then drilling out wing rivets, removing two screws to get rid of the wings/top of the toe. Then using a band saw to remove any remaining plastic on top and trim the back of the toe off, then probably grinding flat with a. Belt sander.
I’ll fill the underside cavities of the binding near where I’m going to drill new holes with machinable epoxy. Drill new M5 clearance through holes, then dremel out some space for stainless steel/nylon locknuts. Then just install the tech toe on top of platform with m5 machine screws into the locknuts on the underside, and you’re good to go
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Pretty sure I speak for everyone here: pics would be awesome and appreciated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muggydude
I’m off work for a little bit starting December 9th, so I’m planning getting this done and writing a how-to with pictures around then
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Will update later
outstanding, prime; i love this place; gamechanger; great work lindahl and muggydude
Nice work muggy! Thanks for documenting the process and driving the DIY cast bus forward.
Thats so sick
Muggy where the pics bruh killing me
Ok tangent. If I wanted a taller heel riser for shifts, which of these voile should I order?
Thought I would add to this thread as I Have been planning this for a while and was looking to create a slide in 3D printed piece for Warden Demos that would have a passive locking mechanism into the slotted demo base piece. I used a calliper and got the dimensions almost perfect yesterday and printed it today. Needed a bit of sanding and my passive locking mechanism is not going to work as expected.
- I used too thick of a brace and it doesn't bend/lever enough
- and the lever button is way too small, so I cut off the protector pieces and tried to hinge it directly from the back
- the nubs 3D printed arent very strong
so I am going to have to fix this but it is decently snug that it might work for the up just using friction to keep it in place. The least amount of moving parts the better in my mind. I am going to think of a different way to introduce enough friction to make sure it doesn't slide out if the current friction decreases (likely), but at the same time is easy enough to put in and take out.
The binding is held in using T nuts that were left over from an 8020 build.
A simple screw tab like Muggy is using could be an option to increase friction enough to stop any movement which I could easily add by drilling a hole through my current 'passive' mechanism (although a simple redesign of the back passive locking mechanism piece should be pretty easy).
I have attached a picture of my CAD drawing and the actual part. The design is for some old dynafit tech toes.
Attachment 353188Attachment 353189Attachment 353190Attachment 353191Attachment 353192Attachment 353193
Nice work Harvey.
I started the process too. Have to make some decisions about how to proceed. The convenience of the latch mechanism makes the DynAttack block rather tall. No way around that as some thickness of plastic is needed between the metal Dynafit baseplate on top of the block and the already elevated bottom of the screws securing the toepiece. Was wondering if instead of locknuts for the M5 screws, perhaps tapping threads in JB weld or one rectangle of aluminum? (the red area in the photo of the underside of the block) maybe 3mm thick.
So how thick does the plastic of the block need to be between the tech base plate (the flat top surface) and the top of the metal it's grabbing onto? Is 5mm good? Or an easier number for my brain: the thickness of the block? remember this is just for going up.
After flattening the top of the block it will need a concave depression to accomodate the Dynafit's spring mechanism which, when engaged, protrudes below the level of its baseplate. Dremeling out the diamond shaped area between the screw holes will be required.
I want to trim down the long tails but wondered what more savvy minds thought.
Attachment 353952Attachment 353953
The attack mechanism of locking is a lot simpler compared to the Wardens—thanks for posting those pictures Charlesj that is helpful I might try and combine this into my design.
Would the flat metal baseplate affect the sliding ability of the toe piece? You could likely drill out/epoxy in some T nuts (flat ones, not the serrated kind) in the correct toe pattern for the dynafit toe piece similar to how it was done on this thread.
If you're looking for simplicity you could also just JB Weld the tech toe onto the toe piece.
—I could probably go look up the strength of the potential bond and compare it to forces expected for skinning....or just send it.
5mm should be enough although I would probably use T nuts over threaded plastic. I have bought an extra set of Warden Demos so I might do something like you are doing to use them on two sets of skis if my 3D printing design doesn't work as well as expected.
Unless one has a very specific need to do the swappable toes I would say stick to the original idea unless you are very handy and have an absurd amount of time to squander. A milling machine would make this easier. I made the block as low profile as I dared. Going to go mostly with the lock nuts as I don't really trust the tapped threads in JB Weld except for the screw close to the latch where there isn't sufficient real estate.
Attachment 354529
Attachment 356287Attachment 354530
Attachment 356283
Still tweaking, reducing a little mass here and there (This is not a project for weight weenies, obviously). Trying to figure out how long the block needs to be to have adequate grip on the track. I have no doubt this will work despite my meandering process.
I did figure out, after spending waaay too much time doing it the clunky way, how to do this better, faster, cleaner:
1) Chop off the top of Attack Demo toe. Make it parallel to bottom.
2) Fill in voids with machinable epoxy where required.
3) Position block vertically, front up. Use track to make jig of some sort
4) Drill/mill a void in block between top and bottom.
5) Epoxy into the void aluminum
6) Clean up the front
7) Drilll and tap holes for M5
8) Go skiing
Yeah I think at this point, you're trying to force a square peg into a round hole....
I see this as trying to make a system comparable to cast, without the elegance of the cast system. You'd almost be better off ripping off their design at this point by sourcing some shoulder screws from McMaster, and milling out a replicable toe piece plate.
There are definitely other ways to peel this puppy, but I think OPs original concept was simple and easy for most folks to do on their own.
yeah, it lacks the elegance, cost and uphill weight of Cast, but the square peg now fits. I'll let you know how it works
Quote:
Originally Posted by rfconroy
I re-read this, and definitely read more harsh than I had intended it.... I think the work on this thus far has been awesome, and as an engineer and tinkering I get pretty amped to see this stuff. So I definitely don't want to undercut effort like this at all.
Nice work to push through and complete the project! The grey is a JB Weld outer skin layer to clean up the appearance?
Nothing says work in progress like gray primer. Most of what I added is regular epoxy with plastic dust. Some JB Weld where I tapped threads before going for stainless lock nuts. Looking forward to testing it out.
I consolidated some posts above and figured out a much better, faster, cleaner way to do this, after spending waaay too much time doing it the clunky way:
1) Chop off the top of Attack Demo toe. Make it parallel to bottom.
2) Fill in voids with machinable epoxy where required.
3) Position block vertically, front up. Use track to make jig of some sort
4) Drill/mill a void in block between top and bottom.
5) Epoxy into the void aluminum
6) Clean up the front
7) Drilll and tap holes for M5
8) Attach tech toe
9) Go skiing
That would be the way I would do this if I was going to do it again
Attachment 357624
In other words chop it off below the dotted red line, fill some voids, then hollow out the blue area (stop before you hit the latch mechanism!) and insert the aluminum plate that is 44mm wide, 56mm long and 3mm(?) thick.
Attachment 357623
Version 2.0 in progress, not as easy* as I visualized... I’m making a second pair, possibly a better version of an as yet untested idea. Shaving first one down to make Version 3.0. It will include the base plate so crampons can be used, if i ever want to piss away more time.
* it’s cold where the drill press is so I’m drilling by hand inside, whatevah
Attachment 360890
went back to version 1.0 and ground it down a lot and epoxied the base plate on top, first filling in some of the void under the base plate.
Version 2.0 is still in the works, I did use a chunk of aluminum that was substantially thicker than what was needed.
I was going to try this out, but decided to wait for this season.
For anyone interested, I have some Attack 13 demos (basically new), a couple tech toes, and some Voile risers. PM me if interested - just looking to recover ~what I paid ($315 for everything).
Really cool seeing someone else put this together. Glad its working for ya! Anyone else use this system last season?Quote:
Originally Posted by singlecross
Cool - first time seeing the weights.Quote:
Originally Posted by ntblanks
So its about 350g of total on-ski weight if you use a race tech toe, assume 40g for risers and cut off 50g of excess material. So comparable to the 350g class. Definitely lighter than Kingpin and Tecton or Vipec class.
And about 1000g of on-ski weight for quick leave-the-heal-on laps, which is about 100g heavier than a Shift setup and comparable to CAST.
Bump, and updates on any of these setups?
Don't know why this product came up as a Google ad because I never search for anything related to snowboarding... but is this possibly the perfect binding for this mod?
250g per pair, short mount pattern so your stride would be closer to where it would be with a normal tech toe, and includes the climbing risers.
Edit: maybe this actually puts the pivot more forward now that I look at the OP again. Maybe still an interesting and relatively cheap option compared to race toes AND climbing risers?
https://www.voile.com/voile-sts-tour...s%20I%20choose.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...43357c0945.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...3c8d3e1000.jpg
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Using the Duke PT12 toe would also be interesting.
I was planning on using the Voile pieces for my setup. I have some demo Attacks, but realistically, I think I'm going to break down and buy a CAST setup instead. My main concern is the demo tracks icing up. This is still an awesome idea.
Really curious if there's more of these setups out there in the wild.
They don't really ice up. I like this better than the CAST system I used to have, cuz you can drop the heelpiece for longer walks. I use Shifts instead of these on my inbounds/sidecountry ski, since I don't do long walks with that setup. These are for my wife's one ski quiver, where dropping the extra weight gives her a boost on the up for longer tours.
Still using my setup and just did 3 days of touring on Teton Pass. Never had any icing. I trust the system so much that it will be my setup for two weeks traveling to Japan. I also carry this MSR dish brush which is really nice for cleaning snow off.
Attachment 436895
Interesting. Occasionally our demo bindings ice up at work (our demo fleet is stored outside for all intents and purposes) which made me think twice about this being a good idea. These would be going on my work skis which I very, very rarely need to tour in; I have other setups that are more ideal. I really just want the peace of mind to be able to get back up hill in an emergency if needed. Just can't quite convince myself to put true alpine bindings on because of that. I also don't really like Pivots (yeah sue me) and CAST is not cheap, so here I am rethinking this again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindahl
Oddly enough, I've had this setup in mind for a Japan trip as well lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by singlecross
Thanks for your input guys.
That makes sense. Most touring bindings will ice up outside (snow melts in the day, freezes overnight). Cast froze really bad on me once like that, had to slam them with my boots. I store my skis inside.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr walker
Valid point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindahl
I realize this is now an old thread, but that's how long it took to try this swappable toes idea. charlesj was not joking about wasting an absurd amount of time. Thanks to lindahl for the original concept, and to charlesj and muggydude for the detailed images and instructions on the swappable toes, and everyone else who pitched in to move this forward. One complicating factor is that anyone trying this will likely have different versions of all of the pieces, which may not mesh. In my case the tech toe piece had a completely different screw hole pattern than charlesj's, and I was using Attack 14s as the base with a different placement of the latch mechanism. So my only option was to try to install a small aluminum plate for mounting the 2 rear screws of the tech toe.Quote:
Originally Posted by f=ma
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/d/...gy33mDWNaHlswX
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/d/...8VOwHVGg7oYz-n
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/d/...C6w21Nc7WqgdBW
And here they are mounted up. On the Right, Uphill mode with No Heel Piece and Tech toe piece On the Left, Downhill mode
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/d/...df_D-VlDVVkuE3 https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/d/...NkpOqhSm_nqF3Y
The removable toe piece weighs in at 205g (90g for the tech toe/screws, 115g for the base/screws), and the total uphill weight with the plates, risers, toe piece and screws is about 485g. Could save even more weight by chopping off more of the plates, especially the toe plate, but keeping them as is for now for the adjustability.
Also, even with leaving a little extra of the toe plate forward of the mounting screws, the removable tech toe still needs to be positioned all the way forward on the track to allow the risers to contact the boot heel. This may be specific to my BSL though (313) and if so you could probably chop off more of the plate. As a side note, if anyone is interested in trying this project, a cheap way could be getting a pair of used rental skis from Lone Pine Gear Exchange that come with the base plates and bindings. The blue Factions on the right were like 300, and then all you need are the risers, tech toes, and a separate set of Attack toe pieces. Maiden voyage:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/d/...fQ11xXssB0L5y9
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/d/...0mNaxE49L1eXYZ
Well done! Keep on testing/skiing. Spending a bunch of time on a cool idea can be worth it if one follows through. Due to some knee issues and not finishing 100% I never deployed mine. Addisj’s execution looks clean and secure. Those minimalist Voile pins could be ideal for this mod (depending on mount pattern). Lindahl’s CAST alternative is viable and relatively inexpensive. DIY and hacking solutions can be satisfying beyond a logical product purchase
For those waiting in the wings, my wife and I are still using this setup pretty regularly and it still works great.
Dude 4 years later here we are, Tyrolia developing such binding. https://i.redd.it/tndyit6ng1uc1.jpeg
Tyrolia isn’t developing anything, they just copy and claim innovation. Their new pin binding is just a copy of full featured u spring bindings already on the market, zero innovation.
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