Yeah, but you know that up and us are the only developed countries where college is not free?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Stainless
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Yeah, but you know that up and us are the only developed countries where college is not free?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Stainless
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screw that, judging form the people in the news that went to "recognizable" schools I'd rather hire no name grads any day of the weekQuote:
Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds!
that being said if money right out of the gate is the goal as mentioned above get 'em in a trade school and they'll be golden
oh, and to the people claiming that tuition in in PQ is cheap, yes it is, thatnks to the rest of Canada paying for it...transfer payments for the win
From our experience, we fall squarely in the middle class hole. We make too much to get any money and not enough to actually afford it.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdironRider
My kids are dual citizens. The oldest just finished her first year at UNB Fredericton. I spent about $15K USD give or take on everything including spending money and travel. She got a $1500 CAD scholarship from the school for her HS grades and a $1000 USD one from a local org. Minutes after she accepted at UNB, Dal offered her $4500 CAD. However, she didn't really like Dal, they don't have her exact program with the specialty she wants, and she applied there only because I said she had to apply to more than one school. She really, really, really likes UNB. I mean it looks nice and all, however I will never understand her level of attachment for it. It's just a school. Hopefully she gets a good academic scholarship this year from UNB as she has a 4.3 GPA. It is cruel that they don't announce that until mid July. And she won some writing contest, but can't seem to tell me how much $$$. Of course I have a kid going into 11th and a kid going into 8th. I am screwed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obstruction
the costs i'm hearing are usually under 20K a year for a Canadian Uni, almost nobody goes to an American school unless they got a sport scholarship or its for something unusual not offered in Canada
Nice, Sounds like UNB is a good fit for her and $15k is sweet deal. Mine ran about $22k per year (CAD & USD were at about par or near enough for the years he was at Dal.).Quote:
Originally Posted by riser3
More than two hours of work a day at federal minimum wage...Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Stainless
Both of my daughters got varying levels of academic scholarships from schools they applied to. Daughter 1 stayed in state and daughter 2 is headed to DU in the fall. We have a middle class income and aren’t paying anywhere near $300-400k. If your kid applies to schools they are academically qualified for, they will likely get offers.
Theoretically the grad won't be working for minimum wage.Quote:
Originally Posted by mtngirl79
Unless they graduated from fucla.Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman
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It is running right around $20K CAD per year right now for the full deal for Can citizens. Add another $10K for international students/non Can cit. Too bad she's not a NB resident. They get a huge chunk of change if they go to Uni in NB.Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX-er
up narth here the kids either fight wildfires or pound trees into the ground for a couple months and play warcraft in their moms basement til september which easily gives them the 15-20K to do a year of uni ... until the next spring
makes em pretty tough but they are constantly at great risk of getting into either the tree planter or wildfire lifestyle, make big money & go skiing ... forget the school
My daughter is not the wildfire type. And her summer gig won't clear that kind of coin. However, I am just happy she found something to do and isn't sitting around on her phone all day. Whatever she makes will help.Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX-er
So when she was looking for jobs, she ran across two things that were frustrating. To work in a provincial park she had to be a resident of the province??? And all of the Parks Canada jobs in the east that she was interested in required her to be bi-lingual. She's not. She's trying, however it's not one of her priorities. So she's working in a Vermont State Park. Not exactly sure why the fascination with parks. I guess it is because they are seasonal.
yeah thats a federal gov kind of thing the requirement to speak french, makes sense back east but it will get you in the door even in BC where there is not a lot of french spoken they probably fill out the same form
My wife's cousin got a job at Banff park gates because she checked off bi-lingual on the box. No one checked her actual speaking ability. She said it was easier to hand out french pamphlets than talk anyways.Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX-er
Also she would have been better off speaking German or Korean than french.
2 years of local community college and transfer to state school makes the most sense economically, especially if you have a prestigious state school. Of course you lose the precious experience of waking up at 11AM on the floor covered in vomit and surrounded by 40 of your closest friends, naked, all of it posted on FB.
For people with certain goals--foreign service, wall street law, high tech engineering--the big name schools make sense. For people who need a lot of personal attention, nurturing, and support, small schools make sense.
The valedictorian in my son's HS class--top of her class academically, star of the golf team, great personality--went to Harvard, dropped out after a year to live in a women's collective and do basically nothing.
I went to a pricey small liberal arts college and I can't say my education was any better than the cc to state school plan--maybe if I had been really into school and wanted an academic career in a non STEM field it would have been. I did get to hang out for 4 years with people like me--smart with no social skills-- but then I still had to figure out how to get along in the real world where most people are the opposite.
FIFY Old Goat. Nobody under 25 uses Facebook other than to stay in touch with their parents.Quote:
Originally Posted by old goat
That said, there is still something to be said for the "traditional" college model IMHO. Maybe I'm just being nostalgic. I'll check back in 2 years when my daughter is a Junior.
Agreed, except I should point out that the foreign service is still exam-based.Quote:
Originally Posted by old goat
I coach at a community college. You can get guaranteed entry into cal berk and all credits transfer as cal credit.
It’s actually easier for a two year transfer to get into a top private school because they have proven their commitment.
Some states have better CCs than others. Ours has come a long way and has a long way to go. The only way to get decent credit transfer here in VT between CCV or the State Colleges and UVM is with very careful planning in very specific programs if you want to graduate in exactly four years. I experienced it 25 years ago and my daughter has friends encountering it now. Two friends went to CCV for their senior year in HS. One managed to get an associate's in basically a year and a half, transferred to UVM mid-year and will spend two years at UVM. The other has the same amount of time at CCV, got the same excellent grades, did not get an AA, and did not knock any time off the four years. It all boils down to the specific programs and specific classes.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4matic
We're also the only developed nation where the standards of admittance are so pathetically easy. College is "free" in many nations because the academic standards are actually stringent. In Europe, don't quite make the grade? Well, you gotta pay. Want to go the University of Tokyo? Well, you better have been studying your balls off since birth to make it, let alone even get into a proper HIGH SCHOOL around there. Yeah. Crazy hard entrance exams. I think we should do those, then I'm pro "free college." Our SAT exams are a joke if I scored as highly as I did. I consider myself perhaps of average intelligence, and I still scored a 1510. If we had the academic standards of most developed nations universities, we'd see attendance drop by like 90%. Haha.Quote:
Originally Posted by rod9301
What's Instagram?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippster
I know a little about Germany from friends--the kids get tracked into college prep or vocational early. Of course that makes more sense in a country that does as much specialized manufacturing as Germany does, but we could do a lot better job training people to make and fix things. I suspect most people sitting in cubicles would be happier doing something with their hands if the pay was equivalent. The big field up here is mechatronics at Sierra College--2 year program I think--and the ski areas can't hire the grads fast enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinFromSA
I can't agree with you more. Really pisses me off how our educational system places such little emphasis or notoriety in technical trades. One thing I admired about what I've seen in Europe, Japan, and other places is the value placed on skilled tradesmen. If you're a highly skilled woodworker in Scandinavia, you're a rock star who makes good money. I've seen plumbers and electricians in Germany who are as professional as any exec and do their jobs with utter precision. In Japan, they have the ideas of monozukuri and kaizen. Something we definitely don't see here. The level of pride you see from trash collectors to burger flippers is unbelievable. We could learn a thing or two, starting with respecting tradesmen more, which by the way, honestly can make more money than many degree-requiring white collar jobs. I say that as a broad generalization, but it's often true. I hope my kids follow their hearts and talents, whether they want to be a doctor or a plumber. Rock on!Quote:
Originally Posted by old goat
Right. And as pointed out, the trade-off for that is providing a lot more "technical" training so that those that don't make the university track can have a skill. In Germany there's a wide range of programs between University and ditch digging.Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinFromSA
The downside of the German system is that for a trade like cabinet making--one I've read about--you do a long apprenticeship and have to pass an exam before you can go into business. Similar rules for a lot of trades I believe. Obviously it pays off in terms of quality but I think a lot of Americans would not be happy in a system like that.
Of course not. Instant gratification society.Quote:
Originally Posted by old goat
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More likely the germans want the professions to dictate the quality of the product, rather than the market.
that sounds like a negative thing^^ when it is infered that students who "don't make " uni are somehow inferiourQuote:
Originally Posted by riser3
it might mean they didnt wana go cuz they don't really like school so telling them academia is the be all and end all is BS, students should be able to start a trade in H-school which I understand is possible in Yurp
I read the "mount your own fucking ski" thread and see dentists who " didn't make" simple layout & working with hand tools
Happy, as in actually held accountable for the work or job they are doing? Yeah, I can see that.Quote:
Originally Posted by old goat
Quote:
Originally Posted by old goat
Basically there is an expectation in Germany that if you hire a Tradesman that they know wtf they are doing and you're going to get what you paid for, rather than our crap-shoot in the US. Those apprenticeships are very well paid and there is an expectation on the master to actually teach, rather than simply use the apprentice as cheap labor. Masters who accept apprentices can be held accountable for shortchanging their education. It's a very old system (ever heard of Guilds?) and used to be the norm even here until we lowered the value of the trades and thus the expectations of both the master and apprentice.Quote:
Originally Posted by waxman
True, but I don't see anything wrong with just smart people going to college.Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinFromSA
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TrueQuote:
Originally Posted by AustinFromSA
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ExactlyQuote:
Originally Posted by waxman
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Work has to be done mentally.Quote:
Originally Posted by flowing alpy
In 1978, the U.S. federal minimum wage was $2.65 per hour; a student working 40 hours a week for 13 weeks over the summer would earn $1,378, enough to cover the average in-state tuition at a public four-year university, which was $1,369 for the 1978-79 school year, according to National Center for Education Statistics data.
The claim aligns with historical economic conditions when tuition costs were lower relative to wages; PolitiFact rated a similar statement “Mostly True,” noting that while in-state tuition was affordable, out-of-state rates often exceeded a summer’s minimum-wage earnings.
By 2020, college costs had surged, with tuition, fees, and room and board rising 169% since 1980, per Georgetown University’s Center on Education and the Workforce, making it nearly impossible for a minimum-wage summer job to cover a year’s tuition today.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...383a5dfc93.jpg
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College is still a wonderful investment and is fairly straightforward to do in a financially responsible way. Encouraging kids who have no direction, or college fund to go to expensive private/out of state schools to hopefully, maybe find a major without looking at the long term career prospects of that major is a problem. Yes, college is expensive. But it is also still pretty straightforward to make it work out well for yourself financially. College used to be for high achievers, and the upfront cost was well worth it for those motivated high achievers. For the last 15-20years, college has been pushed on everyone including many who view college as a 4 year summer camp instead of primarily as an education and preparation for a career. IMO we should really make JC/CC free, and guide more kids through that route instead of straight to 4 year schools.
College is absurdly overpriced, both based on the actual cost of teaching undergraduates and based on value gained for many students. As far as the cost of teaching--the low cost of community college proves that it doesn't cost that much to lecture, test, and grade students and run a few labs. Harvard profs aren't paid any more than CC instructors. At 4 year schools undergrads are underwriting the whole enterprise--the research, the publishing, the sabbaticals, etc. As far as the second, while in the aggregate college education more than pays for itself, even considering interest on loans, for too many individual students it doesn't. The other factor to consider is room and board--more students would be well served by living with their parents until they graduate, although they would miss out on the binge drinking, hazing, and sexual predation, and all the other glories of college life.
My private college was pricey for a middle class family when I attended in the eighties. Now, at Ninety K per year, I can’t say it is worth the money unless that cash wouldn’t be missed by a well off family. That sucks for an otherwise great experience and school. College Loans and other political bs have fucked that system as well. Even state schools in Ca clock in at thirty K which is a complete and total rip off
This. However I hate the word “free” - because it’s not.Quote:
Originally Posted by californiagrown
The tax payer should fund 2 additional years of education; for those two years students should have the choice between trade school, tech school, credential programs, or college undergrad at the local JC.
This saves the financial lift for the college bound to just two years of subject specific focused learning.
This also provides increased opportunity for those coming from low income communities - which in my opinion would reduce crime and substance abuse.
We need to be promoting skilled trade careers, medical techs, etc… as much if not more than college careers. My generation was told - “if you don’t go to college, you’re fucked”. Which certainly has not been the case.
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