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Genitals don't determine gender........so this person who clearly has what would typically be associated with male genitalia should be allowed to swim on the women's team despite the junk show. A better shave and a bit of estrogen and "he" might pass as a woman.Quote:
Originally Posted by dunfree
Attachment 468023
Almost nobody serious is saying that. That’s not the debate. It’s a headline.Quote:
Originally Posted by The AD
what does that have to do with trans panic dumbfucks like you pushing genital inspection?Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackhead
it’s a troll to engage, and it’s engaged old white dudesQuote:
Originally Posted by Mustonen
I am promoting no inspection, no inclusion criteria. Only criteria being what the athlete identifies as, regardless of previous or upcoming surgical procedures or transition plans.Quote:
Originally Posted by dunfree
What someone plans medically is nobody's business but the athlete.
I'm following Harvard criteria.
This is not a troll, and it happened in the skateboard event per above.
It happened in a quasi formal somewhat sanctioned event? They were literally just making up the rules as they went along. Hardly the smoking gun like the photo you posted.. Everybody's gay/trans/hetero to some degree. It just depends to what degree. Gender is a spectrum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackhead
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTGXSdg0hEY
I was talking about the actual scenario that allmountainsnowskating presented.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustonen
The poster of the skateboard event bluntly asked what the forums take on that occurrence. So I’d like to be ask the same. To qualify as a trans woman athlete, does the athlete need to look like what would culturally be considered female?
I had a fair number of trans-men on my patient panel in the past. Some “passed” pretty well, others not so much. For the ones who didn’t “pass” well, are they delegitimization based on outward appearances?
Again, not a troll. I know tough questions create hostility here.
A little aside here, you’re as/more guilty than anyone of spewing vitriol.Quote:
Originally Posted by dunfree
Carry on
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Oh you think that’s real? Sure, I’ll play. I think if you run a sporting event along gender lines you need to know what you mean by that. Allmountain clearly didn’t have a clue. Posting equal prizes for each? Cool…Quote:
Originally Posted by The AD
They made some super arbitrary determination re who qualified for what and if the crowd dug it and the participants felt validated and respected, way to go.
I’m sorry, what’s the debate?
Breaking along gender lines is problematic. Purses for a second tier of competition invites something besides level ground competition. Not to be a bitter middling white dude, but I genetically never stood a chance in many, many athletic competitions. We want to see cis women champions? Call it what it is. You want to use my taxpayer money to fund it? Fuck you, give my relatively inathletic progeny a fair shake to benefit or get your money elsewhere.
I’ve got nothing but hate for people pushing the trans panic and will never apologize for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn
but I’m not the one watching bigoted morons making millions pretending what makes a woman is the ability to birth
3 peopleQuote:
Originally Posted by The AD
There are trans women who are in to other women.. i.e. look like a man but with a hew va j j. There are trans women who are other women but look like a woman but have a dick. There is no particular flavor at all really.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackhead
Why not just let kids figure themselves out and play sports along the way. Let the pro leagues who have all the skin in the game decide who gets to play and who doesn't at the professional level. The colleges and top level academy athletic programs will roll with that the industry decides. Leave the kids alone. Isn't that the mantra? Don't indoctrinate them as either side's bias.
That takes all of the religious and other biases out of the equation.. Let the money leagues set the rules for the athletes they pay big money to
If anyone here wants to read it, here’s the UCIs justification. Beware, it involves science, references, and data.
https://assets.ctfassets.net/761l7gh...male_cycli.pdf
Here’s how World Athletics defines trans athlete eligibility:
https://worldathletics.org/download/...20March%202023
So basically let the IOC make the rules and colleges and high schools should follow that?Quote:
Originally Posted by SumJongGuy
Which begs the question, how do YOU think they should rule?
I don’t hate anyone. You want to think you’re the arbiter of everything that’s right but you can’t even have a conversation without spewing hate if you perceive that someone disagrees with you. It’s sad reallyQuote:
Originally Posted by dunfree
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As someone who never made a competitive sports team at any level I can't say I was harmed by not being able to participate. Most kids don't. Now if there had been a class for pencil neck geeks I might have had a chance. Contrary to popular belief sports isn't all that important. And there are plenty of sports that people can participate in non-competitively. Give me a minute and I'll think of one.
Or how about this--what percentage of transwomen participate in or would like to participate in competitive sports. A minority I would think. Are the rest being traumatized because even as women they can't make the team. (No way I would have made the women's track team at my very nerdy HS. Or my even nerdier college.) Of all the problems trans people have to deal with in our society, not being able to play competitive sports is way down on the list.
This is an absolute scientific falsehood and a logical fallacy. Try 0.01%. It deserves to be called out: The fallacy and being off by a factor of 1000x.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSilverSurfer
A small number people are born missing a leg or with a malformed leg. Others acquire the condition. That doesn't mean we are a species with a "spectrum of limbs." We are a bipedal species.
A small number of abnormalities does not turn a binary or unary into a "spectrum." This is a logical falsehood. This is pure and simple redefining definitions to match an ideological narrative.
Does that invalidate the "limb loss/deficiency" category in Paralympics? Of course not.
Can anyone just "identify" as limb deficient and be taken at their word for competition? Of course not.
This is also incorrect, off by an order of magnitude or two more likely. They are probably unknowingly referencing the poorly written Fausto-Sterling article from over 20 years ago that merely speculated a number of 1.7%. The author was quite soundly repudiated by her scientific colleagues because she basically just made up a new definition for intersex that didn't match anyone's clinical or scientific understanding.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasputin
Intersex prevalence is a small fraction of a percent, it might generously round up to 0.1% aggregating all the different disorders and abnormalities that get grouped under Intersex (phenotype unclassifiable or not matching genotype) but it is probably closer to 0.01% than 0.1%.
I’m not going to weigh in on the broader issue here but as I person who follows and plays a bunch of chess, I can speak to the male/female dynamic.
There is little inherent to chess that would separate the genders based on biology. It’s a purely social result that men are often better, hence why there may be an advantage for a man to play a women’s tourney.
A disproportionate number of children players are boys. For whatever reason they gravitate to the sport earlier and in larger numbers. With the absolute ridiculous path necessary to becoming a GM, you simply must start early to get to that level. Being a chess GM requires both innate genius like ability coupled with study that can only be afforded by time. At that level, people don’t really “catch up.” If you aren’t at the starting gate, your not finishing with other GMs.
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Delete.
I typed something that was probably quite neutral. But that's not what the internet wants. So, go carry on fighting about whatever the fuck you're fighting about.
Oh, and men should get the fuck out of women's sports.
I don't care about your feelings. You're not a male. You're no more a male than I am a black guy. I mean, I wish I could run that fast, or jump that high. But I'm fucking white.
So fuck off, you fucking white dude.
Wait... I just realized... they're all white. Every trans-athlete is white.
Holy shit.
Evolution and cultures have shaped males and females differently. This is true of generations of African humans, Asian humans, etc..
Men are more likely to get the pickle jar open. However none of this is absolute. I know a lady a couple years older than I am with very similar skiing background. She usually beats me by about 0.25 seconds in NASTAR courses. She skis more often than I do these days.. a LOT more.
Oh and the arm wrestling champion of my 6th grade class was a gymnast girl. Had such a crush on her LOL.. Girls have an edge up through about age 12 or so..
WTF are you even talking about?
Needs repeatedQuote:
Originally Posted by kathleenturneroverdrive
Good god, my dude. log off, go touch some grass.Quote:
Originally Posted by gaijin
QFT, 6 pages of men discussing what is required to be a woman.Quote:
Of all the problems trans people have to deal with in our society, not being able to play competitive sports is way down on the list.
Thumbs up.Quote:
You're suggesting I ignore that it's impossible to make youth sports fair, that the science isn't settled, and that the numbers of people impacted here are minuscule, all to get in bed with people who are using these anti-trans laws to attack a marginalized population in order to advance their own bigotry, hate, and shit political agenda? Hard pass.
To many of us they are important and I don't think it makes sense to dismiss those of us who take sports seriously.Quote:
Originally Posted by old goat
I'll admit I used to think that trans women should be allowed to compete as women more or less without question. I got smacked down by a few women for this believe and their rationale was compelling. Again, women have fought for a long time to achieve relevance in sport and Title Nine is a big part of that narrative. I'm not against trans women competing in women's sports, but I do think there need to be standards in place based on scientific data.
so you deleted something "quite neutral" to instead post something that is quite racist? Good job.Quote:
Originally Posted by gaijin
This is a fun thread.
Carry on.
These threads let you know who people really are.
The discussion reminds me of men telling women what abortion rights should be.
This thread is exclusively about women's sports. How about we let exclusively women decide who can compete?
Oh FFSQuote:
Originally Posted by mcphee
“I use someone’s viewpoint on whether we should be able to fit people into one of two groups to fit them into one of two groups”
Well, one guy outed himself as incredibly racist and another is a regular viewer of a hateful bigot.
Not quite the oversimplification you’ve made it out to be Jimmy.
Not as simple as this discussion topic, amirite???Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee
everyone has an issue or issues where their POV is going to seem "messed up" to others, even if they are otherwise "on your side". I draw no conclusions from "threads like these" beyond the specific issues in this thread.
Totally bruh!Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyCarter
You don’t make judgements on people based on their viewpoints, where they get info, and how they speak about others?Quote:
Originally Posted by Danno
You’re a saint!
Apparently someone didn't believe her when she weighed in with actual experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mudfoot
This could be our worst thread.
No, I don't make deep important judgments about people and their character based on what they say about one hot button issue on an internet forum. You have said some stupid nasty shit on here, do you want to be judged on it?Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee
^Yes as long as it’s in the context of who I was yelling at. Most of the stupid nasty shit I say are to some of the worst humans on here.