Talk to me about Insurance: Auto, Home, personal liability

Lawyer up for sure on something that big. I had a very simple $10k water damage claim with Safeco and it was total shit show, most incompetent people I have ever dealt with on a "professional level". All the internal adjusters I worked with were contractors working off a script and anything that wasn't on it was a dead end. Only bright spot was the field inspector (also a contractor) who was honest and said the hourly rates they used are not in line with my area and to press them for difference in payment.
It took 4 months to get paid on something that should have taken 2-3 days. I think I spent more time dealing with the Insurance company than dealing with the repairs.

Years ago we were sued by the doctor/self-taught contractor who bought the house next to us and attempted to remodel it with undocumented labor--lead paint and asbestos abatement done without any protection and tossed in the regular dumpster, a shop placed in a shipping container and powered by unshielded romex under the steel door. We reported to the city but nothing was done, eventually the FD inspector saw the "shop" and waited for the PUD to arrive and turn off the power to the lot. City then ordered the remains to be bulldozed. The asshole doctor sued us for tattling on him.

At the time the case was covered by our SF umbrella policy (not any more). SF referred us to to an auto liability lawyer who missed a deadline to get punitive damages removed. So we hired an insurance specialist lawyer who got SF to settle for less than the asshole's costs and legal fees, because of the risk of punitive damages. Well worth the few thousand we paid the lawyer. (We also hired a real estate attorney to deal with the fake survey the asshole had done which would have moved the property line to within 3 feet of our house. She got the survey unrecorded as part of the settlement, which turned out to be huge. More about this later.)

(We've had shitty luck with neighbors. Probably karma for owning a Super Reverb, a table saw, and a yappy dog who hates being alone.)



Or to make a long story short, get a lawyer. Maybe you and whoever owns the white house can share the cost. And maybe the owner of the blue house as well.

^ In reply to this and the preceding posts, lawyers have a completely different take on the pros and cons of insurance companies vs. us civilians.

The good/bad divide is kind of like this: ins. cos that treat lawyers good and claimants bad, and those that treat lawyers bad and claimants good. Also there's an across the board dislike in all ways for any ins. cos. that advertise on television and streaming channels, Liberty Mutual, Geico, The General, Big Lou, etc.

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Originally Posted by bigt

Any insurance experts want to talk to me about “efficient proximate cause”? I am 2.5 months into a major claim on a landlord policy. I have had 2 field inspections and 4 claims representatives. Now they (Safeco) want to send a third party geotechnical engineer to look at my property. Basically the uphill house got knocked off its foundation by a tree and is now sitting on my property. How long do I sit tight and when do I call a lawyer?


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By a tree!? Looks like a bunch of trees, and dirt and part of the hillside above you, almost like the earth moved and land slid down the hill…. Which could have been caused by a sudden rush of surface water, or flood…

I’m not an attorney nor licensed adjuster. My lay understanding is…. Efficient proximate cause means that whatever set off the chain reaction is the cause of loss. I.e. if a landslide caused that tree to fall the cause of loss is landslide, not “tree fell”. If an earthquake causes a heavy object to fall and crush part of your house the cause of loss is earthquake not “object fell”.

Most policies do not cover “earth movement” unless you have landslide insurance or other special insurance. From the pictures it looks like they are trying to determine if a landslide / earth movement caused the tree to fall. If so, you are probably not covered or have a very high deductible or very low limit.

My advice would be to immediately retain an attorney that specializes in insurance, they will delay the inspection and formulate a plan. I would not let the geotechnical inspector proceed until you retain counsel.

Do not hire a public adjuster, that will just increase the percentage you are paying to representation. You want an attorney for this one. If you hire a public adjuster they will want 10-20% of the claim value. The attorney may want 30-40%. The attorney can hire an adjuster or surveyor to do the scope and pricing of the damages and pay them hourly. I’ve seen insureds stack the two (hires a PA but then needed an attorney) and end up with 40% of their claim.

My guess is that you are probably screwed. I’m guessing you didn’t get insurance that covers land slides because that shit is expensive and this is a rental property. Your insurance carrier had 0 intention of insuring against landslide and that is likely made quite clear in your policy. And that shit looks like a landslide, but it’s only one crappy picture. However, there is a chance that your insurance company will screw up, or your attorney will be able to cause enough uncertainty to get them to settle. Lawsuits are really expensive for insurance companies.

Your attorney will know this but you may want to sue your agent / broker. If you can show it wasn’t offered or something you maybe able to sue them too. I’d go gather all documents you have about the insurance placement.

You’ll probably have a good idea of your chances when you meet with the attorney. If they want you to pay them hourly you know they think you’re fucked too.


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I do this shit a lot and I agree with neufox 100%.

Also, in some jurisdictions, if you have to sue an insurance company to get coverage you get attorney fees as a matter of right.

(Not legal advice etc.)

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Originally Posted by old goat

a yappy dog who hates being alone.

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Dogs can be trained if they have decent owners.

Everyone has an insurance index.

Small claims are best self insuring. The limit depends on your wealth. Pay what you can. Lots of small claims are a flag.

When big shit happens there’s not much you can do.

Got a new kitchen 8 years ago from an icemaker leak.

Last week had to dig up my driveway for a new water line. Thinking of a claim. I could pay for the line. But the new driveway is going to suck.

Had a work comp shitbag douche employee. The guy I hired to challenge his claim said his index was four pages long and the kid was only 24 years old!

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Originally Posted by Conundrum

Like anything, good and bad brokers. G Gordon is one of the good ones.

Insurance companies...if they were not scammy, those brokers wouldn't have jobs.

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I'm sure he's a great rep and broker. It's the underwriters, actuaries, and adjusters - all of which operate at the behest of the insurer - that love to deny claims and keep the insured from their money.

I've read a few accounts lately of people calling in to their insurance co to discuss whether making a claim is worthwhile, ultimately deciding not to file a claim, but insurance co who is now aware treats it as if a claim was made. Apparently it is policy of some companies to do this, and it has consequences to insurance rates and possibility of getting dropped. Anyone experienced that? Seems like a douchebag move.

I had a dual sport moto stolen a few months ago. Didn't have comprehensive coverage so I couldn't claim it. But did have to cancel the basic coverage I had in it. So insurance co knows it was stolen. Would suck to have rates go up because of that.

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Originally Posted by evdog

I've read a few accounts lately of people calling in to their insurance co to discuss whether making a claim is worthwhile, ultimately deciding not to file a claim, but insurance co who is now aware treats it as if a claim was made. Apparently it is policy of some companies to do this, and it has consequences to insurance rates and possibility of getting dropped. Anyone experienced that? Seems like a douchebag move.

I had a dual sport moto stolen a few months ago. Didn't have comprehensive coverage so I couldn't claim it. But did have to cancel the basic coverage I had in it. So insurance co knows it was stolen. Would suck to have rates go up because of that.

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Yes, I've heard of this and it had it happened to me. Fortunately, I was able to talk to the call center agent off the edge and the claim was not submitted. If I'm going to have a conversation about submitting a claim, I'll usually talk to my agent. They are incented to keep you on the policy so they will typically shoot you straight and in some cases, advocate on your behalf. At the end of the day, an insurance agent is really a salesperson for policies. My agent, until recently, was great in this regard.

Zero dollar claims will show up. But shouldn’t end your insurability.


If a worker cuts his hand and need stitches. Goes to the clinic. We report the claim in case it gets worse. But the $700 bill gets paid directly. The insurance claim is zero.

Advice I got from a work comp expert.

I can’t imagine the same thing wouldn’t work for homeowners. Yeah they see the claim. But they also see the dollar amount. Zero.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/pol...300505879.html

I am shocked to learn insurance companies in Florida found ways around the profit limitations.

Backed into my BIL's car six years ago (he randomly parked behind the garage instead of to the side and our dog was blocking the out the back). There was a door ding that we paid cash for at the body shop without involving insurance. Just shopped around for car insurance yesterday and somehow they pulled that up and used it as a factor to bump our quote. Crazy.

That’s fucked.

I bumped a snowbank a few years ago and bent up a front bumper (no airbag deployment). Had adjuster come out went to body shop, got quotes, adjuster was considering totaling the vehicle, ended up cancelling the claim, and got body shop to do a partial fix out of pocket. The adjuster and body shop told me that none of this would show up on our records or affect our insurance. So far so good.


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Originally Posted by frorider

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/pol...300505879.html

I am shocked to learn insurance companies in Florida found ways around the profit limitations.

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Florida is both the worst state to handle claims in (approx 98% of ALL US insurance lawsuits are in FL) and shockingly permissive to the corporate structure and allowing carriers to siphon profits off. It’s like corrupt politicians have both been trying to please their voters with bombastic claims regulations and also trying to help their donors by allowing them to structurally rob their voters in a less obvious way.

Currently shopping for a bundle in Idaho. State Farm and Progressive came back with the most competitive quotes. Leaning towards SF for the local Agent but I’m agnostic really. Progressive zero dollar glass coverage is enticing option around here. I’ve never had to make a claim,knock on wood. Any experience with one or the other for a big claim?

Got sued for $3.5mil when the wife was 100% at fault in an accident. Jake at SF took it to a jury trial. Covid era zoom trial was entertaining. Lawyer didn't do his homework like I did and SF paid the $350k awarded. Rates never went up. Other than rates going up for everyone lately. I've been with SF for 60 years and having an agent has been a mostly good experience.

We've had no problems with SF over the last 40 years--generous payouts for legitimate claims, not canceled (yet) in fire country, no big hits on rates. The only trouble was with the last claim--we went around and around on a claim when my wife was hit by an uninsured driver, but eventually we were covered. Seemed more of a problem with inexperienced adjusters than with SF trying to dodge. We've had the same agent all this time although maybe too long--he must be in his 80s and told my wife we don't need flood insurance in Sacramento--the most at risk city in America. His office staff is good though.

A guy from Venezuela Ran into one of my parked trucks.

He drove two houses down and ran into his house and locked the door.

My guy came out of his house and saw the Venezuelan guy run into his house and called the cops.

The cops show up and finally somebody else shows up to that guys house and the Venezuelan guy comes out of the basement and fakes a seizure so the Cops call an ambulance.

Turns out he has a warrant from crossing the border illegally and another in Denver but they have to take him to the hospital now.

Meanwhile the others in the house start working on fixing his car. The cops pull the fake plate of his car but don't tow it. He has no license or insurance.

He was driving the car the next day and moved out 2 days later.

My truck took 2 months to fix and cost me $5k to fix.

The court later let him go with a $350 fine and 9 days served for anothe thing. $180 for my thing and $170 for another crime.

Resisting arresting, causing an accident, fleeing a scene, wreck less driving, fake plates, no insurance, all were dropped, he got a ticket for no license.

Colorado has 15% uninsured motorists and 9th in the nation.

Its illegal to drive without insurance in the state, yet this continues.

Its a fucking scam.

That’s why you should have Uninsured/Underinsured motorist coverage on your vehicles. Let your insurance company pay you and deal with pursuing that scumbags.

Its illegal to drive around without insurance so you should not need it. But then again they do not punish criminals so I should just not have insurence.

Apparently nobody is stopping you from not having insurance. Giver a go.

When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose.

Insurance is for folks with something to lose.

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Originally Posted by exsparky

Its illegal to drive around without insurance so you should not need it. But then again they do not punish criminals so I should just not have insurence.

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Let's assume a fully legally compliant person causes an accident injuring you and damaging your vehicle, and they have insurance, but it's only the minimum amount required by law in your state. Let's say that minimum is $25K. And let's say your injuries are serious and your $50K vehicle is totaled. The insurance company for the person who caused the accident accepts liability, and pays you $25K. That other driver is an 18 year old with no assets against which you could seek any recovery.

In that situation, how do you feel about declining to purchase uninsured /underinsured insurance coverage for yourself?

CA minimums are $15k property, $30k injuries per individual and $60k per accident. Which is wayyy too low.


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Originally Posted by Peruvian

When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose.

Insurance is for folks with something to lose.

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This is the point of the thread.

A fellow dentist’s daughter rear ended a middle aged white lady. Kid goes to college and moves out on her own. Well a few years later they got served and ended up declaring bankruptcy. A lot of stupid shit happened on both sides but in the end they had to start over with their kids off to college.

Fuckin white people and their lawyers man. CYA

There comes a point in every car's life when it no longer makes sense to carry collision coverage. Such was the case with my kid's first gen 4 runner. However, he was clipped by a Budget employee turning right into the Budget lot from the center lane in a Budget truck. Their insurance totaled the 4Runner, gave us 2K, and let us keep the very driveable vehicle. Sometimes life gives you lemonade.

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Originally Posted by jackattack

This is the point of the thread.

A fellow dentist’s daughter rear ended a middle aged white lady. Kid goes to college and moves out on her own. Well a few years later they got served and ended up declaring bankruptcy. A lot of stupid shit happened on both sides but in the end they had to start over with their kids off to college.

Fuckin white people and their lawyers man. CYA

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Something in this story is missing. If they had an auto policy in place when the accident took place, it would provide coverage regardless if the driver went off the college. The insurer would be obligated to provide a defense attorney for the lawsuit as well.

Did the dentist not have an auto policy? FAFO in that case.

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Originally Posted by jackattack

Currently shopping for a bundle in Idaho. State Farm and Progressive came back with the most competitive quotes. Leaning towards SF for the local Agent but I’m agnostic really. Progressive zero dollar glass coverage is enticing option around here. I’ve never had to make a claim,knock on wood. Any experience with one or the other for a big claim?

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Is there any benefit to having a local agent?

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Originally Posted by Kevo

Is there any benefit to having a local agent?

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See my post #12.

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Originally Posted by Kevo

Is there any benefit to having a local agent?

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IMHO no.

The agent you deal with in buying a policy is a sales agent, not an underwriter or an adjuster. They have no authority in addressing a claim, other than the duty to pass it along to the claims dept.

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Originally Posted by Peruvian

Something in this story is missing. If they had an auto policy in place when the accident took place, it would provide coverage regardless if the driver went off the college. The insurer would be obligated to provide a defense attorney for the lawsuit as well.

Did the dentist not have an auto policy? FAFO in that case.

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Yes to Auto coverage. No to personal liability. I don’t remember all of the details but after he told my wife the story we added an umbrella policy to our coverage.

We've been served twice "a few years later". Actually, just shy of 3 years later both times. Just before a statute of limitations would run out.

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Originally Posted by old goat

There comes a point in every car's life when it no longer makes sense to carry collision coverage. Such was the case with my kid's first gen 4 runner. However, he was clipped by a Budget employee turning right into the Budget lot from the center lane in a Budget truck. Their insurance totaled the 4Runner, gave us 2K, and let us keep the very driveable vehicle. Sometimes life gives you lemonade.

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Im at this point with the one and only vehicle I currently own. Its Edmunds/KBB value is $2000 +/ $150. Ive been putting off getting something new(er) for a few years now. Collission and comp is $180 (of $675) annually. My agent put it in perspective, saying youre paying $180 a year to insure against a loss of $1500 ($2000 value - $500 deductible). Clearly not worth it IMO.

Mark me as another with two primary vehicles with no collision. Comprehensive still on as they use peagravel for the highways so windshield are replaced every 18mo or less. Couple million on each for liability. Paid annually, insurance is under $700 for each. That will all change once the daughter attains driving age in 3.5yrs. Weeee!

I just pay for my windshields.


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Originally Posted by Peruvian

Something in this story is missing. If they had an auto policy in place when the accident took place, it would provide coverage regardless if the driver went off the college. The insurer would be obligated to provide a defense attorney for the lawsuit as well.

Did the dentist not have an auto policy? FAFO in that case.

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Problem is they didn’t have enough. Just cause your auto policy is $250,000 doesn’t mean they can’t sue you and go for your savings or investments. $250,000 doesn’t go very far in life care plans. Especially in a state like CA where the court awards them as if the plaintiff had no insurance (including Medicare) and paid retail prices out of pocket.

Windshields were easy enough to pay for until they put a couple of cameras behind them that have to be recalibrated. It's been a few years since I had to replace one--I've been sitting on a passenger side crack for a couple, waiting for one I have to fix, so maybe the tech to do the calibration is becoming more widespread and the price has come down. (Did I just say maybe the price has come down? How stupid.) Last time I did it I had to take it in and Safelite was the only shop that did it.

Ya, my old toyota p/u was less than comp to replace, but now the cheapest windshield is 1.5X the cost of the comp coverage. Thankfully, no vehicles with radar (adaptive cruise control).