Too Many Tourists In Colorado

I can't speak for other locals or towns but in my experience the thing that bothers most of the locals I know here in Aspen isn't all the people on trails or in the backcountry, it's the day-to-day in town mess that sucks. Out in the woods it's easy to get away from people usually, as everyone has pointed out. But the traffic and crowds in town you can't escape from.

This summer the inbound traffic stretched bumper to bumper from town to the ABC pretty much all day every day from F&W until the middle of August. Anytime you wanna leave town it's an extra 15-20 minutes to get back into town, not to mention the extra traffic at normal commute times. Parking rates increased this summer as well, which really just penalizes locals who drive into town for work. And the thing here is a huge increase in the traffic is contractors/service vehicles, not even tourists. I've lived here 11 years and by any of this towns standards would be considered pro-development, but the last 3 summers are making me rethink that sometimes. And the only real way to curb those crowds is a good recession where the rich quit buying and remodeling/rebuilding their second homes and the commercial developers slowdown their redevelopments.

The county and city here always trumpet how all the extra tax revenue helps pay for all these great services, which is true and many of the amenities of living here are awesome. But I know a lot of locals who would give up some of those nice but non-essential services if it means they can spend less time in their cars everyday staring at the mountains and more time outside enjoying them with all the tourists.

Bus and bike? Welcome to city life

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Originally Posted by Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo

The only real way to curb those crowds is a good recession where the buying and remodeling/rebuilding their second homes and the commercial developers slowdown their redevelopments.

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Dude, we had one of those recently, starting in '08. It is still called the Great Recession. How did that work out? Fuck, where I live, they're tearing down 3 million dollar homes to build ten million dollar homes. Aspen? Fuck.

The mountain resort towns have always wanted this. More more more. Now they have it but the rapid increase has not been matched in infrastructure. You can't improve infrastructure overnight, especially when it depends on tax dollars from the people you are trying to accommodate.

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Originally Posted by Lindahl

Bus and bike? Welcome to city life

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Bike only works part of the year in the mountains for most people, as you know, but we do have a sweet bike path system.

Maybe you experienced the joke that is the county bus system in Summit while you lived in Breck? It is inefficient and horrifically slow.

If you want to go from Breck to Keystone in the summer, it is 3 county buses, 1 hour 40 minutes, then add the Breck and Keystone buses you transfer to.

But it is FREE! ;) It pretty much exists for locals with suspended licenses, people going out who don't want to lose their licenses, the poorest/foreign workers, and maybe a bike shuttle. It is too inefficient for anything else. Maybe it works better in other mountain communities.

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Originally Posted by shredgnar

The mountain resort towns have always wanted this. More more more. Now they have it but the rapid increase has not been matched in infrastructure. You can't improve infrastructure overnight, especially when it depends on tax dollars from the people you are trying to accommodate.

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Try moving around Seattle at rush hour. The problem is not limited to mountain towns. Too much real estate development without enough infrastructure to support it.

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Originally Posted by Benny Profane

Fuck, where I live, they're tearing down 3 million dollar homes to build ten million dollar homes. Aspen? Fuck.

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They can afford to tear them down because they are built cheaply like giant condos. Stone veneer, Hardie plank siding and finger joint poplar trim comes together in a 8,000 sq ft architectural disaster on a lot that's too small for the house. Each one has water in their basement when it rains because they have patios the size of basketball courts and 6 ft retaining walls in their backyards.

http://www.mcmansionhell.com/

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Originally Posted by fastfred

oh yeah

my favorite is the dumb fucks who want to bring the olympics to colorado

how fucking stupid are people?

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Sounds like an awesome idea actually. Are we talking summer or winter, or both olympics. How cool would that be!?

Colorado is smack dab in the middle of the US, 3hrs or less from everywhere. This plays a big part. jersey Joey and the boys ain't flying 7hrs to the PNW and with all their DUI's they ain't getting into Vancouver to hit Whistler.

Colorado is WA and OR's East coast gaper filter.

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Originally Posted by AK47bp

Colorado is WA and OR's East coast gaper filter.

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It's not working.

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Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

It's not working.

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Well, it sure helps.

I personally have 2 gaper douchebag friends with DUI's on the east coast that won't come out here because they can't go to Whistler and want me to meet them in Denver to ski.

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Originally Posted by Timberridge

They can afford to tear them down because they are built cheaply like giant condos. Stone veneer, Hardie plank siding and finger joint poplar trim comes together in a 8,000 sq ft architectural disaster on a lot that's too small for the house. Each one has water in their basement when it rains because they have patios the size of basketball courts and 6 ft retaining walls in their backyards.

http://www.mcmansionhell.com/

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Not on my hood. They start with huge holes in the ground, then put the steel beams in. None of that mac mansion crap.

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Originally Posted by AK47bp

Well, it sure helps.

I personally have 2 gaper douchebag friends with DUI's on the east coast that won't come out here because they can't go to Whistler and want me to meet them in Denver to ski.

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I think a deep lack of understanding the dynamics of good skiing and what good snow and terrain is what helped more. But that is failing as well.

Literally takes all day to get from an NYC burbs to Whistler. Even more, back. SLC, you can ski the same day. Duh.

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Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

I think a deep lack of understanding the dynamics of good skiing and what good snow and terrain is what helped more. But that is failing as well.

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Sure.

But there are no villages in WA, lodging and restaurants are far from the ski hills. That helps a shit ton. I wouldn't take my family to WA to ski if I lived elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by Summit

Bike only works part of the year in the mountains for most people, as you know, but we do have a sweet bike path system.

Maybe you experienced the joke that is the county bus system in Summit while you lived in Breck? It is inefficient and horrifically slow.

If you want to go from Breck to Keystone in the summer, it is 3 county buses, 1 hour 40 minutes, then add the Breck and Keystone buses you transfer to.

But it is FREE! ;) It pretty much exists for locals with suspended licenses, people going out who don't want to lose their licenses, the poorest/foreign workers, and maybe a bike shuttle. It is too inefficient for anything else. Maybe it works better in other mountain communities.

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Our bus system is pretty good and the bike paths are great. But with a 3yo in daycare and a 5yo in kindergarten on different schedules with different activities and living out in SMV a car is, unfortunately, often a necessity.

In the grand scheme of things it's not really all that bad and is nothing compared to what my friends back in Northern VA have to deal with where we grew up. But the last 3 summers have been by far the worst in the 11 years I've been here. And like the article said, for most locals it's not so much how bad the peaks are, we all moved here with our eyes open and knew what we were getting into. It's that it's starting to feel like a never ending peak with shorter and fewer valleys.

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Originally Posted by Summit

What do you do in Baca?

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farm

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Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

Try moving around Seattle at rush hour. The problem is not limited to mountain towns. Too much real estate development without enough infrastructure to support it.

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I spent some time in Seattle. Bad there too.

The thing with resorts is they are purely tourism based economies. The tourists bring in money, spend it, taxes are collected, then the taxes are spent to build infrastructure (among other things). Unfortunately due to inefficient bureaucracies and city planning, the improvements to infrastructure are, in most cases reactionary. So with a sudden boom of tourism, many things that are needed now, are many years down the road in terms of building and funding.

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Originally Posted by shredgnar

I spent some time in Seattle. Bad there too.

The thing with resorts is they are purely tourism based economies. The tourists bring in money, spend it, taxes are collected, then the taxes are spent to build infrastructure (among other things). Unfortunately due to inefficient bureaucracies and city planning, the improvements to infrastructure are, in most cases reactionary. So with a sudden boom of tourism, many things that are needed now, are many years down the road in terms of building and funding.

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One of the parallels that Seattle has to resort towns is the lack of voter input.
Sounds weird, huh? It's obvious for resort towns: the people (tourists) spending the money aren't aware of the community needs. Possibly because they don't care and more likely because it doesn't really affect them.

On Seattles' East side, in the Kirkland/Redmond area, the school system is called the Lake Washington School District.

LWSD has the highest percentage of non voting population with kids in public schools in the nation due to the massive visa influx brought about by msft and google. There's an enormous development called Redmond Ridge that was supposed to build enough schools (WeyerHauser/Quadrant Corp) but didn't and now the schools have 35 kids per class and up.

Transportation infrastructure is completely overwhelmed. I had to stay home until 9 the other day and a 6 mile, 15 minute drive in non-rush hour conditions took me an hour.

So there's a significant population that can't have any impact on school levies or ballot initiatives.

Even if they could vote for infrastructure improvements, everything has gotten so expensive I wonder if the local transportation issues could even be somewhat ameliorated. What's crazy is the rate of rail line destruction in the name of bikeways, but that's a whole different axe to grind.

Oh, and I am a second homeowner in CO and am changing my voter registration to there.

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Originally Posted by Summit

Bike only works part of the year in the mountains for most people, as you know, but we do have a sweet bike path system.

Maybe you experienced the joke that is the county bus system in Summit while you lived in Breck? It is inefficient and horrifically slow.

If you want to go from Breck to Keystone in the summer, it is 3 county buses, 1 hour 40 minutes, then add the Breck and Keystone buses you transfer to.

But it is FREE! ;) It pretty much exists for locals with suspended licenses, people going out who don't want to lose their licenses, the poorest/foreign workers, and maybe a bike shuttle. It is too inefficient for anything else. Maybe it works better in other mountain communities.

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Weren't the concerns with off-season and summer traffic? Bikes work just fine then. Winter traffic has always been bad (but is worse?).

Busses are just as ineffecient in cities. The upside to busses is that you're not driving in traffic and you could potentially get work done.

Just saying, if you want the city to come to you, expect to deal with city problems like city dwellers do.

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Originally Posted by Lindahl

Weren't the concerns with off-season and summer traffic? Bikes work just fine then. Winter traffic has always been bad (but is worse?).

Busses are just as ineffecient in cities. The upside to busses is that you're not driving in traffic and you could potentially get work done.

Just saying, if you want the city to come to you, expect to deal with city problems like city dwellers do.

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Never asked the city to come to me. I asked for some infrastructure and/or a discussion about at what point is more tourists a diminishing return for a community.

There is no time-saving reason to bike in Summit County in the off season... or pretty much ever (unless your alternative is riding a bus). It is just a way to get a little exercise.

Very very very very few people in Summit County have a job that would allow them to "get work done" on a bus. If it approached 1%, I'd be shocked, and most of them would have drastically reduced productivity on the bus. And they'd probably spend as much time moving between and waiting for multiple bus transfers as they would driving thereby negating any potential productivity gain.

In Summit, county buses are no solution to the crowding issues. They are for people who lost their license, cannot afford a car, or are partying. The Breckenridge and Keystone the resort buses do serve a purpose: moving people from employee housing and satellite parking to the mountain.

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Originally Posted by Summit

They are for people who lost their license, cannot afford a car, or are partying.

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The latter alone has to be more than 1% of Summit County residents?

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Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

am changing my voter registration to there.

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Curious about the reason for this?

Probably to have a much bigger impact on local affairs than the big city.

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Originally Posted by Timberridge

The latter alone has to be more than 1% of Summit County residents?

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The less than 1% I mentioned referred to Lindahls very Bouldery suggestion that locals could telecommute to their job while riding in the bus to Frisco to shop at Walmart, or whatever. ;)

Yea the bus works well for partyers. My friend who drives the bus has interesting stories. Interestingly, he does it for the health insurance since he has his own business, but buying your own health insurance in the CO highcountry is a joke, costs twice what it does in the front range for a given plan.

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Originally Posted by shredgnar

I spent some time in Seattle. Bad there too.

The thing with resorts is they are purely tourism based economies. The tourists bring in money, spend it, taxes are collected, then the taxes are spent to build infrastructure (among other things). Unfortunately due to inefficient bureaucracies and city planning, the improvements to infrastructure are, in most cases reactionary. So with a sudden boom of tourism, many things that are needed now, are many years down the road in terms of building and funding.

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Part of the problem is that jurisdictions require developers to pay mitigation fees, build affordable housing, etc, but don't follow through. http://www.moonshineink.com/news/hou...boxes-hillside
In Tahoe we have a particular problem--Nevada, Placer, and El Dorado Counties all have jurisdiction over the unincorporated areas of Taheo-Truckee but almost all the supervisors and most of the population live west of the Sierra. What we need to start with is a single county incorporating the summit and Tahoe-Truckee basin.

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Originally Posted by capulin overdrive

farm

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Not surprising that a farmer from Baca (a town that receives more tax dollars from the urban areas you ridicule, for road maintenance etc than Baca puts in) is pro TABOR.

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Originally Posted by Summit

he does it for the health insurance since he has his own business, but buying your own health insurance in the CO highcountry is a joke, costs twice what it does in the front range for a given plan.

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http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...hlight=Suicide

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Originally Posted by old goat

What we need to start with is a single county incorporating the summit and Tahoe-Truckee basin.

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There's definitely a lot of talk going on right now about North Tahoe County... problem is it wouldn't include Truckee as they seem to be content as part of Nevada County and not dealing with Placer bullshit.

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Originally Posted by TahoeJ

There's definitely a lot of talk going on right now about North Tahoe County... problem is it wouldn't include Truckee as they seem to be content as part of Nevada County and not dealing with Placer bullshit.

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In any case the bar for formation of a new county seems very high
The State is divided into counties which are legal
subdivisions of the State. The Legislature shall prescribe uniform
procedure for county formation, consolidation, and boundary change.
Formation or consolidation requires approval by a majority of
electors voting on the question in each affected county. A boundary
change requires approval by the governing body of each affected
county. No county seat shall be removed unless two-thirds of the
qualified electors of the county, voting on the proposition at a
general election, shall vote in favor of such removal. A proposition
of removal shall not be submitted in the same county more than once
in four years.

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Originally Posted by Benny Profane

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...hlight=Suicide

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Sure, that's bad for the death insurance biz, but I would think if you're dead you don't need as much of the health insurance?

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Originally Posted by Timberridge

Sure, that's bad for the death insurance biz, but I would think if you're dead you don't need as much of the health insurance?

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Well, yeah, but, just trying to illustrate how unhealthy the ski town lifestyle can be. Drugs, drink, multiple trauma, and then emotional problems. Much worse with age.

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Originally Posted by Benny Profane

Well, yeah, but, just trying to illustrate how unhealthy the ski town lifestyle can be. Drugs, drink, multiple trauma, and then emotional problems. Much worse with age.

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stuff it benny, you fucking knave

What's the matter, can't find a beer can exhaust for your pimp Mecedes ride?

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Originally Posted by WTF is dat

Not surprising that a farmer from Baca (a town that receives more tax dollars from the urban areas you ridicule, for road maintenance etc than Baca puts in) is pro TABOR.

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Can you back up your claims with links to facts? FYI Baca is not a town.

Anyways, as far as Schools, you are correct. The schools do get State aid.

Roads I'm guessing is a wash? The County barely has any blacktop, and CDOT is funded by fuel tax and vehicle registration, so no redistribution of income tax there.

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Originally Posted by Benny Profane

Well, yeah, but, just trying to illustrate how unhealthy the ski town lifestyle can be. Drugs, drink, multiple trauma, and then emotional problems. Much worse with age.

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it can be and then there are other people who live boring normal lives

"much worse with age" funny how people seem just fine and as they get older things do fall apart big time

http://www.aspentimes.com/news/fores...-maroon-bells/

just read this article

sums things up pretty much

my only question is how is that fun being one of 81,000 people in a two month span to hop on a bus and go look at nature?

you look at the resources spent (6) full time rangers? dealing with these people, then again maybe it's money well spent

hanging lake in glenwood canyon is suppose to be an absolute shit show of people too, the FS isn't really sure how to handle that yet, but working on a plan

My experience is pretty limited but Winter Park was great. Was there in mid August to bike and overlapped a weekend. Crowds weren't bad. People were nice. Shar and I were surprised at how not busy it was. There was one restaurant where the server was a bit chippy (not too us but to others) but otherwise it was a lot less assholish then I would have imagined from the chirping on the TGR forums

http://www.tetongravity.com/story/bi...ding-near-town

http://www.tetongravity.com/story/bi...by-lift-served

Praxis RX

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Originally Posted by Benny Profane

Well, yeah, but, just trying to illustrate how unhealthy the ski town lifestyle can be. Drugs, drink, multiple trauma, and then emotional problems. Much worse with age.

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They've got nothing on the Wall Street scene...