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Umm, yeah, there is. There's even a difference between the non-black and black parts of the same topsheet. I've very clearly seen snow stack up on the black portions and not on the non-black portions on skis before (in the exact pattern of the black graphic). Its been pretty damn obvious. Given how much I think you tour, I'm quite puzzled by your position. But I give up. Clearly you guys must not be out in similar conditions. I'll stop cunting up this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeLau
Oh my god ... how about "In my experience, there's no difference between those black topsheets and other colour topsheets".Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindahl
It's probably because Lindahl and Dawson are in CO.
Reading comprehension failure? Hah, my bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeLau
Anyone have any weight and radius on next year's bodacious 185? I am intrigued if the carbon and more tapered tips had a significant impact on these dimensions...
Pretty sure I saw 27-m somewhere as the new turn radius. Not sure that will be noticeable from the current 28.5-m radius, but skiing it will prove that out.Quote:
Originally Posted by tpacent
I thought 28.5 to 27 was the change in the cochise. Isn't the bodacious radius currently over 30 in the 186?
Current ski is 32m. Not sure about new model.
Oops. You are correct...that's the Cochise change, not Bodacious. My bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by tpacent
Found this while sleuthing around... doesn't really have any new info, but kinda puts all the tidbits about the Zero G stuff in one place:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...rd%20ZeroG.pdf
Did I miss the MSRP or has it not been posted?
As a very big fan of the Scout as a touring ski, I'm eagerly awaiting 108 reports. A direct comparison in terms of dampness with that ski would be massively appreciated. I'm not dumb enough to expect the Zero G 108 to be as damp as the much heavier Scout, but if it's 80% as damp, my wallet is in for a beating.
Anyone tried the new Cochise yet? Some pairs have been circulating and can even be found on sale. Feedback appreciated. Also, apart from topsheet color, is Blizzard changing anything on the ski for the next season compared to the prototypes?
Skied the new cochise and bodachious yesterday. The cochise is a totally new design, lighter and way quicker with the large taper and carbon tips/tails. Not as damp and stable in high speeds and feels a bit more nervous on bigger radius turns in high speed. Not as damp as the scout by far and way quicker. The Zero G 108 felt more like the old cochise in terms om radius and on edge feel but not as damp obviously. Skied both in 185 like I've Skied the old cochise and scout.
Bodachious is a 118mm spur from tip to tail, haven't skied the spur but really liked this one. Nice and stable feel in big radius turns and damp enough I'd say, definitely more so than the new cochise. With less pressure on the tails it's really quick and playful. Skied the 185 here too, the longer one will absolutely kick ass!
The Zero G 108 may just become my new do-it-all touring ski for next season. Sounds awesome!
SimB, you didn't happen to snap a rocker profile picture, did you?
So the ultralight ski that comes out of the same mold as the new Cochise feels more like the old yet it has no metal and weighs 500g less and the Bodacious with no metal feels more damp than the new Cochise with two sheets of metal?Quote:
Originally Posted by SimB
Total weight of new Cochise is the same as the old one FYI.
Umm, he did say 'but not as damp' about the ZeroG.
He said it felt like the old Cochise in terms of radius and on edge feel, while the new Cochise feels quick and not as comfortable in high radius turns as the old Cochise. If it's the same shape, perhaps thats a flex and/or weight profile thing? More concentrated weight and flex towards the center of the ski?
This sucks. By far, the best trait of the old Cochise is how stable and damp it is (besides also how easy it is to pivot). Less damp -> loser in my book. May have to look for some older Katana's where still available.
Judgement still reserved till skied, but yeah, buhbye Katana and Cochise. The neutering of the ski market is almost complete. Perhaps Salomon is the answer? Never thought I'd say that, but they turned out the Enduro XTi a few years ago, and if the Lab is similar to that (and the X Drive?)... could be pretty good, damn the radius... hah. After going soft, Head is bringing back the Monster brand too (only in name?).
Its all about the backcountry market right now, though, and unfortunately that seems to be impacting the design of inbounds charging skis, too. The competing athletes are also coming more and more from the freestyle side of things, which doesn't exactly help, either. Gotta sell skis, I guess.
I'll snap a rocker pic tomorrow and post.
I wasn't a huge fan of the old cochise, I liked the scout better. IMO they could have left the scout in the line the way it is, have the cochise the way it is now and shave a little extra off the Zero G.
I do like the new cochise and bonafide but it seems like a weird move to me, seeing as Blizzard has been getting a lot of attention and props for making powerful, bad ass skis the last few years when a lot of others have gone the other way. No way there would have been a sh*t f*ck conditions edit with the new one ;)
^^^Any idea on weight and radius of the new bodacious?
SimB, did you ski it with a factory/demo day tune?
I love how one person posts one review and everyone jumps to conclusions.
Granted I'm biased so take it for what it's worth but here is a little more info about the skis from my perspective. I have spent roughly 7-8 total days between Alta, Park City, Jackson And Canyons BC on the new Bodacious (193 and 185) Cochise (192 and 185), Bonafide (180 and 187), zero G 108 (185).
Some of this time was spent on factory tune and some was spent on different setups I did myself.
Me: 6'2" 215lbs. Old and out of shape. Raced through college. Keep it on the ground but ski at decent speeds. Wouldn't say finesse describes my skiing at all.
Just like with the Spur the carbon is integrated into the tips and tails more to stabilize the rockered sections than it is for lighter weight. Judge for yourself but in my opinion the tips are calmer and you can feel more of the ski. There is more connection. In my opinion the new skis are more stabile especially on firmer snow.
Bodacious
27m radius in 185
(189 Spur is 28m)
Construction, rocker and sidecut design is very similar to the spur.
No more metal
I weighed the new one last week, I think it was close to 2200g instead of 2500ish of the previous model. (I could be wrong on this I have both and can weigh them when I get back from SIA). For those that like the Spur but want a little narrower waste for every day or resort pow skiing the new Bodacious is the ski to fit that bill. Beat the road closure and got third chair on Collins for that 22" storm around New Years and had a blast on the 193. The old 196 was a lot of ski for me especially in resort. The new 193 was much more manageable but I liked it better at +1.5. This ski definitely still charges but is easier to maneuver in tighter spaces. Added more base bevel to these (1.5 instead of factory 1.1) and rounded the shit out of everything with taper. This would be my Pow ski here in Utah. 118 is too wide for my knees every day and I'd save the Spur for cat skiing or AK (crossing my fingers for this April).
As with all the new models the construction on each size changes. Longest length is the stiffest and most powerful and each size gets slightly softer from there on down. Trying to optimize the flex and rocker profiles for each target skier.
Cochise
27m radius in a 185
Still with two sheets of metal but with Carbon integrated into the tips and tails.
New profile with a lot less taper than the Bodacious/Spur. Rocker/camber profile is similar to this year. Radius is 1m less than the old one. The new tip definitely planes better in softer snow. I think everyone would agree the present cochise design did not shine in pow for a 108 wasted ski. Tips tended to submarine. New tail design eliminates the hook up in steeper bumps or crud. Setup from the factory is a bit personal preference. If you like to carve your turns they're great if you're going to spend more time off groomers adding a little base bevel and some more detuning makes them drift/smear better. Kyle Taylor skied my 192 demo quite a bit at JH before he left for Cham and likes the new 192 significantly more than the 193 from this year. I would completey disagree from the previous poster about the instability. The new skis have way more power when on edge. The new skis do have camber which maybe could give you the feeling of instability I guess but it's like 2mm per ski which is pretty nominal. Also the factory tune could be a little to agro but that's easy to dial back by hand. To me the new ski is way more fun in more conditions. Better in softer snow and better on hardback. Still two sheets of metal and same flex profile as the 14/15 model. Again i like the 192 at +1.5. 185 is great on groomers but was not enough ski for my fat ass in variable snow. The old 185 wasn't enough ski either though.
Bonafide
Same ski body as previous models just with carbon now in the tips and tails. Both sheets of metal still extend all the way to the end. Core was thinned to make room for the carbon. These are now really fucking calm at speed on firm snow and are really locked in on edge. Didn't. Think they could make this one more stabile than the old one without eliminating some rocker but they did.
More on ZG108 later
You should start your own review site, that was riveting.Quote:
Originally Posted by wasatchback
Hit post on accident... My badQuote:
Originally Posted by Kied
This is TGR - where everyone skis like SethQuote:
Originally Posted by wasatchback
actually better, since Seth is getting old!Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeLau
I heard he doesn't like to jump off stuff anymore.
Glad to hear the new Cochise is better in pow. Probably means the forebody flex was softened up some?
Cool that you guys are altering flex based on length. Did the 192 get stiffer or 185 get softer?
Maybe I missed it? What are the dems of the new versions?
Related note: I can't tell from pics, since different pics make it look different, but is the rocker in the Gunsmoke more twin, or more directional? Last Blister review made it look very directional, but other pictures make it look very symmetrical.
Basically, I'm asking if there's something in the 110-115 waist and directional. More everyday-ish than the Bodascious.
Oh, ha! Okay, now it's looking like a review. That was pretty funny... I thought you were just summarizing "get the Bodacious."
Ha! Okay, now it's looking like a review. That was pretty funny... I thought you were just summarizing "get the Bodacious."Quote:
Originally Posted by wasatchback
This thread title sounds like it was written by a "social media intern" at buzzfeed
Thank you for your captivating & valuable contribution. I'll be sure to check in with you before posting a new thread in the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAREDS
Ok, so this had me second guessing myself and I jumped on both the cochise and Zero G again ready to revise my first impression. More crud and chop today than first time which was perfect groomers. As stated before the Cochise is more damp than the Zero G and in high speed on choppy, skied out snow it still kicks ass. Just not in the same way as the previous version, not a bad thing IMO since it has made it more versatile. Admittedly it was more stable than I thought from skiing it the first time.
Zero G still feels more stable on edge in good groomers too me, I'd trace it down to the carbon layup giving it more tortional ridigity than the cochise.
Attachment 163177
Attachment 163178
Rocker pics, they are the same as far as I could see though even if the pics doesn't really show it. Cochise on the left.
Thanks for all the info! I foresee a 185 Zero G 108 in my future...
Nah. If that was the case, it would be: "What's Blizzard Up To? When You See It Will Blow Your Mind!"Quote:
Originally Posted by JAREDS
Looks like less rocker than the current version?
Also it looks to me the Zero has significantly thicker (or rather higher) sidewalls
looks shorter for sure, current gen has a long rocker!
zero g appears on the pic to have less tail rocker than the cochise and more camber
"The new skis have way more power when on edge". Nice! Curious as to why? Is the ski the same layup as the 14/15 Cochise simply with carbon in the rocker areas? Or are there other changes in the construction from the 14/15 version? Thanks.