Fritschi Vipec review thread

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Originally Posted by Big Steve

Is there that so [much] variation with non-Dynafit tech toes that an adjustable jaw width is necessary? Seems the dims could be reverse engineered within a cunt hair or two. Or is it a wear thing?

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My understanding is Yes, Yes, No.
Dynafit does publish a detailed standard.
(I've had a partial copy of it for years now.)
No, it's not enforceable by rule of law or something, but there is a detailed published standard for anyone to follow.
And even if there wasn't, the dimensions are easy to copy just by grabbing a pair of old Dynafit boots.
Why would anyone deviate from it?
So Tecnica made their dimples too shallow one year (their first year IIRC), Garmont made their dimples too deep one year (their last year!), and apparently other companies don't get the left<>right span distance exactly right.
The most amazing part was when Garmont initially denied that anything was wrong (according to WildSnow.com). This past fall, I was rather surprised (or maybe not...) to see a northern New England climbing shop selling last year's Garmont boots at some trivial discount. I clipped the boot into an adjacent consignment ski/binding setup, and the loose fit was immediately obvious. Then I tried to twist it out (toe lever in ski mode, but heel pins not engaged), the resistance was obviously all wrong. Kind of a dead horse since Garmont is now bought out by Scott, but Garmont's denial was pretty much on par with the dead parrot skit, and their flouting of the Dynafit standard was inexplicably strange -- what do they hope to gain from such deviations?

< captain obvious > it's cheaper for them to manufacture things that way? The more specs/the tighter the spec, the more money it costs to make.

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Originally Posted by Hugh Conway

< captain obvious > it's cheaper for them to manufacture things that way? The more specs/the tighter the spec, the more money it costs to make.

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But isn't it easier & cheaper to mindlessly copy an old Dynafit boot interface, rather than try to do something different?

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Originally Posted by Jonathan S.

But isn't it easier & cheaper to mindlessly copy an old Dynafit boot interface, rather than try to do something different?

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Unless you are buying the parts from Dynafit (or using their drawings) you aren't "mindlessly copying"

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Originally Posted by NoPostholio

When I had my vipecs mounted up, I had the shop tech try both my vulcans and tlt5s. When set up for the vulcans, the tlt5s would not get the same release parameters needed to deem them g2g with same pin adjustment.

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Whoah, now this is surprising!
Does the boot sole rubber play any role in this?
(I didn't think so, but I'm surprised that two modern Dynafit boots would have enough variation to trip up the Vipec adjustment. Any PNW volcano damage to either boot?)

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Originally Posted by Hugh Conway

< captain obvious > it's cheaper for them to manufacture things that way? The more specs/the tighter the spec, the more money it costs to make.

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How come Scarpa can buy dynafit fittings, intuition liners and somehow still seem to make money ?

The tlt5s were def more used so maybe - but to expect to change the pin adjustment for a boot that should be the same was too much to ask. Or to only use same boot...

AFAICT, the Garmont problem was with the profile of the dimple, too cup-shaped, not a jaw width issue. The problems appears to have been fixed with this year's Scott models, evidence that it can indeed be reverse engineered. No need for a width spec. Easy to reverse engineer that.

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Originally Posted by Big Steve

AFAICT, the Garmont problem was with the profile of the dimple, too cup-shaped, not a jaw width issue.

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Right, that's what I meant by "too deep" -- obviously a problem immediately upon insertion into a binding's toe pincers.
(Amazingly that Garmont would unleash that on the skiing public. Yes, I know, we've suffered through many bad product releases, but this one took only a few *seconds* of casual use to be obviously defective.)

My two cents on the Vipecs:

Me: 5'9", 155 lbs, ski the Wasatch mostly, 30-50 days per season, 90% resort/10% backcountry
Normal gear: 184 Katanas/186 Renegades/186 Sickles, STH14 or STH16, Cochise Pro 130s 26.5

My old touring setup: old Katanas with Fritschis

I got my Vipecs mounted by the BD shop. Mounted on some 186 Volkl Nunataqs, 3+ cm from rec'd. Skied them with some TLT6s 26.5, black tongue. G3 BC.com skins for touring.

Over the weekend I did two half day tours on the south side of Little Cottonwood and two half days of resort skiing at Alta and Snowbird.

Ascending: this being my first tech binding, I was impressed with the uphill performance of the Vipecs (no surprise there). No problems with stripped pins after about 5000 vert of skinning over two half day tours. Stepping into the toe was a little finicky but manageable. Switching heel riser levels was super easy with a pole basket or your hand. Going from tour to ski mode was also seamless. Brakes functioned perfectly. And even a tour jong like me could manage to strip skins without take the skis off.

Descending: the resort is a better test of downhill performance than touring, and the Vipecs did not disappoint. I skied the high T at Alta a bunch, bumped down High Boy, 3rds, Eagles Nest and West Rustler the first day, and skied sunbaked mank in Mineral Basin, bumps in Gad2, chalk off of Little Cloud, and recrystallized shady pow on North Baldy at the Bird the second day. Not one prerelease with the toe and heel set at a release value of 8. Solid connection to the boot and ski. The vibrations of skiing fast over rough snow were definitely felt more with this setup than with my alpine gear. Tough to say if that was all the binding though, since I was skiing the Vipecs with an AT boot and an AT ski in the resort.

Overall, I'm impressed. I've got a week long AT trip coming up, will report back more after that.

Thanks for the reveiw ^^

Any new updates for the Vipec for the 2014/2015 season?

Seems like the main problem has been with the toe pin treads stripping. Has using the loctite 263 solved this problem?

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Originally Posted by 12bmucker

Seems like the main problem has been with the toe pin treads stripping. Has using the loctite 263 solved this problem?

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I used loctite on mine and have had no problems. That's with somewhere between 15 and 20 days on them, about a 60/40 mix of touring/resort.

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Originally Posted by 12bmucker

Any new updates for the Vipec for the 2014/2015 season?

Seems like the main problem has been with the toe pin treads stripping. Has using the loctite 263 solved this problem?

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I tore a knee recently, but by the end of April I plan on putting some serious mileage on them.

Also, I haven't adjusted my pin, didn't need to. But do I still need to apply the loctite?

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Originally Posted by Climber Joe

....I haven't adjusted my pin, didn't need to. But do I still need to apply the loctite?

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Yes, otherwise they'll loosen.

So, what's the word. Do you recommend buying this year's Vipec, or would you recommend sticking with Dynafit for now? Doesn't sound like many problems outside of the pin issues this year. correct?

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Originally Posted by WMD

So, what's the word. Do you recommend buying this year's Vipec, or would you recommend sticking with Dynafit for now? Doesn't sound like many problems outside of the pin issues this year. correct?

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Go for it. Or get some cheap on sale dynafits and wait a year or two.

These are real cheap in the 130mm brake: http://featheredfriends.com/gear/sno...t-binding.html

BC.com has Vipec's for $420. Seems pretty good. I'm just a tad worried about problems with them. That feathered friends price is awesome too.

When Rads were new I bought Verts, this year I bought Rads instead of Vipecs

The Vipecs are still on the bleedign edge, not because I don't trust fritchi and their idea but because they are new, the Radicals had problems when they came out which got fixed and so I expect at least a year or 2 of working out the bugs

If I buy bleeding edge tech I am either willing to thro $ away or work with the mfger as opposed to coming on the WWW to say "phuck xyz I bought this latest greatest product which ain't so greatest, must be a conspiracy!?"

Anyone mounted Vipecs on skis formerly mounted with Dynafit Speed Radicals? Wondering if the hole pattern will be problem with the holes being too close together. Guess I can always shift forward or back if I had to. What would people recommend if I had to do that? These are going on some Voile V8's (165's).

My Dynafit Speed Radicals broke after only about 20 days on them. I only weigh 135lbs and don't ski radically hard on them so very disappointed since Dynafit is not being very helpful at this point so I'm pissed at them and am plan on picking up some Vipecs that seem to be a great alternative. The Dynafits of course are just out of warranty period. Plus they are waiting for some to come in for parts therefore I am without BC skis. Not good customer service at all. All my experiences with BD have been great so I would hope that BD takes care of their Diamir products equally as well.

Thanks

Now that these have been out a few months, how are people finding the ski performance? I'm mostly wondering about the vagueness in the rear of the ski that comes with the traditional-style dynafit binding. I'm kicking around the idea of getting a pair for a more "aggressive" BC ski next year but would rather avoid the beast.

If your comment starts with "this is my first tech binding, but...," your opinion is not what I'm looking for.

I am also looking for up to date info. I do like that there has not been a thread titled "Vipec failure almost killed me" over the winter.

Clicking in is a pain. Dealing with the adjustable pin is a pain. There are no accessories available in North America yet. They claim the boot toe color clip thing will be addressed next year, for now with some boots (tlt6 for sure) you have a choice of staying in walk mode when walking, or getting a reliable release when skiing. I have no complaints so far about how they ski. I'm not that impressed.

Here's what I said to Lou about them..."I’ve got 4 days on my Vipec’s now and am extremely happy with them, definitely prefer them to the a Dynafit’s I’ve owned. In rough order of importance to me here’s a list of what I like. Toe elasticity and side release, ski/walk mode change, riser height change, ski brake operation. Ramp angle is also something nice since no mod-ing is necessary. I have mine mounted on 2.2kg 120mm waist Rossi Squad 7′s and the rig skis well."

Haven't toured them much lately, it's been pretty good at my home hill. Anyway most of the criticism I've seen on the Vipec is related to getting in and out of them. If you put them into walk mode first they're no different than any other pin binding as far as getting them off. And as for getting the toe on, it's just the same as Dynafit was before they added power towers, so not really that big a deal. Having a release setting on the toe, being able to switch from ski to walk with the push of a button, and good ramp angle out of the box with a quality ski brake make these things worth looking at in my opinion.

Does the Vipec's elasticity translate into a smoother ride? Do you feel less vibration, rough snow, etc, directly through the binding becauseIf the elasticity absorbs some of the vibration, or does it ski the same as dynafits? I'm coming from tele gear so I have no idea how this elasticity works bit I've got knees that complain when I ski super hard scrapy snow and I'm looking for anything to mellow that out.

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Originally Posted by WMD

Does the Vipec's elasticity translate into a smoother ride? Do you feel less vibration, rough snow, etc, directly through the binding becauseIf the elasticity absorbs some of the vibration, or does it ski the same as dynafits? I'm coming from tele gear so I have no idea how this elasticity works bit I've got knees that complain when I ski super hard scrapy snow and I'm looking for anything to mellow that out.

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I feel like the ski has much more to do with that than the binding. Sidewall construction, rubber dampening, and things like metal laminates and hybrid wood cores are what really counts for a smoother ride.

That's why you see Dynafit adding titanal layers and sidewall. Adding weight, improving performance.

In response to Hugh,

Yeah, I don't tour all that much.

But I did just finish a week long AT trip in the Selkirks at the Sorcerer Lodge. Again, Vipecs on 186 Nunataqs, used the TLT6 throughout. We skinned 4500-6000 vert per day for 6 days.

The fiddle factor of getting into the toe is compounded when using boots with a rockered toe like the TLT6. My wife used the Vipecs with Black Diamond Shivas (flat toe) and had less trouble clicking in.

Vipecs are awesome on the up. As noted by someone else, my TLT6s require the color clip high to release properly at the toe from a forward fall. Color clip high also means it kicks out of walk mode after a few strides almost every time. Even in ski mode, however, I never prereleased when moving uphill. Risers are changed easily with BD pole baskets. For those that care, changing to ski mode without taking the ski off is also a snap.

I crashed twice during the trip. First was a 15-20 ft cornice drop to soft snow. With my release values set at 8 for heel and toe, I double ejected despite a pretty square landing. After the run I turned up the release values to 10 and 10. I hooked a ski in breakable crust the next day and appropriately got a lateral release out of the toe.

In short: tours uphill awesome, fiddly toe entry especially with rockered boots, easy riser and mode changes, zero prereleases and two appropriate releases while skiing down.

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Originally Posted by Climber Joe

I feel like the ski has much more to do with that than the binding. Sidewall construction, rubber dampening, and things like metal laminates and hybrid wood cores are what really counts for a smoother ride.

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Disagree. Dynafits transmit more vibration to MY feet than any other binding I have been on (the sort of harshness you get on hard refrozen snow). Yes, the ski is a factor but so is the binding.

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Originally Posted by nickinbc

Disagree. Dynafits transmit more vibration to MY feet than any other binding I have been on (the sort of harshness you get on hard refrozen snow). Yes, the ski is a factor but so is the binding.

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Exactly. Dynafits are the fully rigid bike of the binding world.

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Originally Posted by goldenboy

Exactly. Dynafits are the fully rigid bike of the binding world.

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hah - that's awesome and true.

I don't dare try the Fritschis. Still in awe of how many people in this thread are asking about that binding when on here and on Wildsnow so many people have reported problems. Truly backcountry skiers are the lemming sheeps of the ski world.

So maybe the Fritschis and Ions are the hardtails with Mag 21s?

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Originally Posted by LeeLau

hah - that's awesome and true.

I don't dare try the Fritschis. Still in awe of how many people in this thread are asking about that binding when on here and on Wildsnow so many people have reported problems. Truly backcountry skiers are the lemming sheeps of the ski world.

So maybe the Fritschis and Ions are the hardtails with Mag 21s?

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problems with ions? or just first suspension comparison? edit;i guess that would be rs1

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Originally Posted by grinch

problems with ions? or just first suspension comparison? edit;i guess that would be rs1

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The Ions are fine --- so far. But I am meadow-skipping them or going inbounds. I've heard and seen too much bullshit from companies about their extensive product-testing.

Only a huge sucker would take a first generation b/c binding on a week long hut trip or gallivant cross the ocean to the Alps without a backup pair of other bindings.

NEVER EVER TRUST A FIRST GENERATION TOURING BINDING YOU MORONS.

10-4 .prob just put my ft12's on my new sticks. they work fine, just nice to have a little forward pressure elasticity for occasionally on hill duty. not a big deal for touring

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Originally Posted by LeeLau

NEVER EVER TRUST A FIRST GENERATION TOURING BINDING YOU MORONS.

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Truth - lol.... I learned that with vipecs the hard way. Who wants a binding you need like half a day to swap on a diff set of skis

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Originally Posted by LeeLau

I don't dare try the Fritschis. Still in awe of how many people in this thread are asking about that binding when on here and on Wildsnow so many people have reported problems. Truly backcountry skiers are the lemming sheeps of the ski world.

So maybe the Fritschis and Ions are the hardtails with Mag 21s?

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Watching Brittany use them and taking a few runs on them myself, I'd put them past Mag 21 status. At least Judy...

How many people are having problems? A handful of pins that pulled out before the Loctite advisory, but generally there hasn't been a huge number of "I broke these". At least that I've seen. I'll be getting some soon, can't get rid of my Dynafits soon enough.

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Originally Posted by goldenboy

Watching Brittany use them and taking a few runs on them myself, I'd put them past Mag 21 status. At least Judy...

How many people are having problems? A handful of pins that pulled out before the Loctite advisory, but generally there hasn't been a huge number of "I broke these". At least that I've seen. I'll be getting some soon, can't get rid of my Dynafits soon enough.

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Fair enough. My view is coloured by knowledge that 3 of 4 Swiss skiers I know who took the chance of being early adopters have had problems- including pin problems. At least they're not Crank Bros

Looks like the general concensus here confirms my experience. Getting in to the Vipec is different than Dynafit, but not excessively so. Dynafiddle or Fritschi-fiddle, either require a bit of technique to get in. Vipec requires a different technique to get out, although you can also slam you ski sideways and force a release, something Dynafit can not do.

There is a potential icing issue you should be aware of. More details at earnyourturns.

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Originally Posted by nickinbc

Disagree. Dynafits transmit more vibration to MY feet than any other binding I have been on (the sort of harshness you get on hard refrozen snow). Yes, the ski is a factor but so is the binding.

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My Comforts have been on 3 different skis. Most teeth&kidney rattling? Volkl T-Rock, no metal! Smoothest? Fischer Watea 94, carbon stringers. Dynafits cause my feet to get buzzy and neo-crampy when the snow is rattley as compared to frame bindings, but torsionally they're so much better than frames and stride/weight wise no contest, so it doesn't bother me.

Any insight in to:

"For alpine touring boots with the front “pintech” inserts behind the normal position like Scarpa Alien, Dynafit TLT 6, etc. we recommend installing the “Color Clip High” as an interim solution in order to assure a proper frontal release.
As consequence the toe of such boots hits the “Color Clip High” in a different angle in the position “walk”. In climbing mode it might happen that in an extreme position (knee close to the ski), the “Easy Switch Toe” is pressed down by the boot from “walk” to “ski” mode and may open the binding. For the next season we will offer a definitive solution with an adapted Color Clip for these boots."


Anyone try them with spectre? They are quite rockered.

" Light weight alpine touring boots with an extreme rocker are only compatible if the sole does not touch the front unit of the binding when the boot is stepped in."

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Originally Posted by daught

Any insight in to:

"For alpine touring boots with the front “pintech” inserts behind the normal position like Scarpa Alien, Dynafit TLT 6, etc. we recommend installing the “Color Clip High” as an interim solution in order to assure a proper frontal release.
As consequence the toe of such boots hits the “Color Clip High” in a different angle in the position “walk”. In climbing mode it might happen that in an extreme position (knee close to the ski), the “Easy Switch Toe” is pressed down by the boot from “walk” to “ski” mode and may open the binding. For the next season we will offer a definitive solution with an adapted Color Clip for these boots."

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I had this problem with Cochise Pro's...basically the toebox was hitting the clip at an angle that levered it into ski mode instead of just pressing on it. Simple solution was to slightly sand down the clip. Really easy to fix. Bizarrely, it was only an issue with one binding, the other one works fine as is.