Head coach was a pussy.Quote:
Originally Posted by smitchell333
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Head coach was a pussy.Quote:
Originally Posted by smitchell333
Well that is true too.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4matic
I don't think that's it. Most parents understand the long odds of DI lacrosse scholarships and spending 2 in the box isn't going to crush any dreams. It's like some folks feel some vicarious indictment of their genetic makeup or their ability to raise a child when a stranger/referee corrects their kid in a game situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Timberridge
Agreed, I think it's more of the "help I'm being oppressed" variety of angry. If your kids are laxing (especially if it's the off-season tournamentQuote:
Originally Posted by Smoova
Type) , odds are you are pretty wealthy and used to things going your way most of the time.
On the other side of spectrum: when coaching a summer lax tournament team I had a parent come up and berate me & his son for not telling his kid how shitty he really was, in front of all the teammates and parents assembled.
We were a bad team (rejects from the Super select team), his kid had an aircast on his strong arm (just cleared by Dr to play with it) and couldn't play D as a result so I had him at midfield.
Dad wanted me to explain why he even bothered to come watch the game, that his kid wouldn't make varsity playing like this, and that on the HS girls STATE CHAMPIONS basketball team he coached he would just bench the kid.
Was very proud when I calmly told him to come walk with me away from group, then proceeded to tell him it was a developmental team and no quality coach or human being would do what he just did in front of everybody else. Also that he wasn't the fucking coach and he can be an asshole with his own team, but not here.
I was really amazed by the whole thing... Yelling at refs is one thing, but this was a whole nother level. Felt awful for that kid.
I dunno, its like the lottery. People seem to understand the odds, but still play it. And if its not D1, then they want the kids to play in HS, and to do that they feel they need to amp it up earlier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoova
I coach youth baseball and one mother told me her 10 year old really wants to play pro baseball one day, so she asks what should she be doing now? I told her to move the family to the Dominican Republic. Fortunately, baseball in my town plays 4th fiddle to soccer, lax and Playstation4, so I don't get nearly the number of crazy parents that those sports do.
I only had a few idiot parents in all the years I coached HS football. Probably because F'ball has a lot of tough kids from single parent families and they are just too busy to be around much. One parent did confront me after a game and I offered him the medical kit and ball bag to carry to the bus if he really wanted to help.
I did have a parent that was a big shot school district admin guy dreaming of his kids Div 1 career. Any other parent would have been easy but this guy had a direct line to the Principal and AD and I guess he intimidated them. He never did talk to me directly. Kid was a pretty good player but if dad really wanted him to get a scholarship it wouldn't be at a AA school known for academics. The good/bad thing is this was a great kid, I loved that kid. Smart, unselfish, respectful, tough; everything a coach would want. I think he was my MVP.
Spent the weekend with an 18 & Under volleyball team in a 2 day open/power tournament. 90 teams in our division. My team is quick enough, but not big enough to compete in an open tourney. Seeded 15th overall starting out. We have one girl on the team that has committed to an ACC D1, one that is going to a low level D1, one D2, 3 D3's and 1 NAIA.
Pools of three teams, played three rounds of pool play on Saturday. We were a head case on Saturday, split first pool, won pool 2, and got clobbered in the third pool. Took us from the gold to silver division for tournament play.
Played much better on Sunday, moved along through three rounds of tournament play to the final round. Ran into a team that has had our number all year. Some of our girls play high school with gals from the other team. Turned back into head cases, and we finished 2nd in the silver division, 17th overall in the tournament.
A good weekend, with some exceptions. If I could invent the pill to keep kids motivated, could probably quit work.
As an effort to increase my social circle in the town that I live (I know 0 people beyond my immediate neighbors) I volunteered for the local youth lacrosse organization. I knew that youth lacrosse was big in town, but the system (1-8) has 750 kids in it, which is enormous. I got added to the 8th grade coaching pool, so I am guessing that the pressure is a bit amped up as the kids will be entering the H.S. system.
Quick question about parents - is the super knowledgeable parent or the totally ignorant parent more likely to be the trouble maker? Thoughts? Thanks.
Identify the mom that wants her kid to play D1, and head for the hills.
Yes. However, if the mom is hot, horny and recently divorced, mow the pitch and follow the advice below.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Gotz
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMP
IME, the biggest pricks come from the parents who are slightly-informed about the sport and very socially aware. These folks have their kids playing because it makes a socioeconomic statement, but they know enough to see that their kid sucks. This combination makes them defensive as hell ... and eager to blame the coach.
The parents with lots of experience or none at all are usually just happy that someone else is coaching.
I know naught about coaching (daughter in elem. school), but props to you for getting involved in the community, and in youth athletics. I hope to be following that track myself in the not to distant future.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Gotz
Good luck!
Timely... we just had our first baseball meeting last night. IME, the worst parents are the ones who think their kid plays above the league and needs extra (and often contradictory) coaching, and who thinks the team exists to give their future hall of famer a place to practice. The best parents are the ones who know and love the game and want their kids to have fun. The parents who don't know or care about the sport and drop their kid off like it's an after-school daycare are somewhere in the lower half. Hot horny moms are fun to look at, but god forbid one decides to start pushing up on you during practice. Hell hath no fury as a reasonably attractive pre-menopausal woman scorned.
Have specific times you are willing to talk to parents. 30 minutes before practice or 30 minutes after for example. Like keeping an office hour. I would indicate to the parent that I would be happy to have a discussion and they could make an appointment. Otherwise, I'm busy coaching and it's inappropriate during practice hours or games.
and never under any circumstance respond to a parent inquiry about their kid, or a complaint via email. Dont let them hide behind the keyboard.
4matic is right. 30 minutes before practice starts, or after a game in person. the less you write the better, if not pertaining to times and places.
Get a leaguelineup.com free website and update it daily. It takes minutes and will eliminate lots of calls and emails. If you're a good administrator things will run much more smoothly than if not.
Didn't think this thread would be so funny. My daughter and my nieces and nephews play soccer, so for example I saw 5 soccer games last weekend. I think I saw every example of bad parent behavior mentioned here.
#1 for sure is it's always the refs fault. I love the assholes yelling at the volunteer 16 or so year old ref at a U-12 district game. WTF?
Some fat Mom near me said too loud that her team wasn't getting any calls, so I said, "That's always the case, the team you cheer for doesn't get the calls." She gets bent, says I should count the amount of cals, yadda yadda yadda.
(Of course it is true when your team is always late to the ball, is getting beat and frustrated and throws elbows that you don't get the calls.)
Yep, I tell my kids, "coaches coach and players play." We need to expect bad calls and overcome them by better play. I'll talk to the ref if things are getting missed, they don't yell at the ref, otherwise they come out. Luckily, I don't have a big problem w/ my parents yelling at the refs.Quote:
Originally Posted by plugboots
I coach my daughter's soccer team and probably will until she gets to high school or loses interest. When I meet with my parents for the first time I tell them that I won't be yelling at their kids and I won't tolerate them yelling at anyone (kids, refs, other parents, etc.). I've never had a problem, though I've seen and heard of lots of problems on other teams.
One thing that the league does on our town is they bribe the parents to ref by doling out "ref points" in the post-season tournament. In other words, if you don't ref, you'll likely go home early from the tournament regardless of how well the kids play. I had a really good player on my team last year and her dad ref'ed every game. It worked out and we took second, but plain and simple, that wasn't fair for the other parents to be freeloading. My rule for next season will be everyone gets certified and everyone refs. I'm even thinking of having everyone put down a "ref deposit". You ref, you get you money back, otherwise it gets split between those that do. Anyone have any experience doing something like this on their teams?
The only issue I have with this is some families just don't have extra resources and may be working jobs during game hours.Quote:
Originally Posted by boarddad
Good for you for getting involved. It's a great way to connect and you'll make some long time friends, no doubt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Gotz
I coached this age women's group for a few years and never had a problem... lucky to have a couple great co-coaches, too. Also, even though it is a big lax community, I think the girls lax is a lot less intense. One mom was super charged, but of course, she was also cute... so no problems.
It's fun following the kids now that they are in high school, too. So far my grads are undefeated through one and a quarter seasons (but I can assure you, it is not because of my great coaching.)
Anymore questions, PM MMP. He's got this shit down... but lots of good advice on this page.
It was a joke...Quote:
Originally Posted by flowing alpy
Looks never matter :rolleyes:
first year of AAU ball - my boy's team lost one game by one point - coach was tee'd up for arguing with the refs on a travel call - the opposing team made both foul shots - LOL
no wonder I hated team sports as a kid - I dread the tournaments and I dread talking to the dad's, and listening to the parents during the game.
I hope my kid takes up tennis and running...
All depends on what they're wearing, and with Temps increasing... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by flowing alpy
yesterday afternoon a kid in a varsity lacrosse game screamed "Goddamnit" after firing over the net and losing possession because no one was behind the goal. My partner threw a flag and called a 1 minute NR unsportsmanlike conduct penalty.
Rather than tell the kid he cant scream like that during the game, the tack his coach took was to argue that goddamnit isnt a swear, the penalty should not have been called and that the ref was infusing his religious beliefs into the sport.
We were in disbelief.
I can see this both ways. Would you flag a goalie who screamed at his defense to "slide goddamnit!"?Quote:
Originally Posted by MMP
a goalie in a game i did wednesday repeatedly said "fuck", i asked him to tone it down. The difference is that if only the guys on the field hear it and its a general curse, not directed at someone, it can slide. If the bench, parents, administrators, etc. hear it, then we are defenseless if we dont call it.
if a goalie cursed AT his teammates i would speak with him first and flag him if he repeated. My kid is a HS goalie, and has had a defender he played youth and club and now HS with tell him to "shut the fuck up". It went badly when we were coaching, and worse now that they are older and playing for a tough coach. My kid knows the D, the slides, the sets, and directs traffic. I hope if a ref heard him get told to STFU he would get a flag.
OK, so you flagged a shooter who screamed at either himself or his teammate because it was loud enough for the sidelines to hear, but you'd "speak with" a goalie who did the same thing (because any goalie worth his salt is screaming loud enough for the benches to hear him)? I don't think this is reasonable.Quote:
Originally Posted by MMP
Similarly, who are you seeking to protect - the kids on the field or the tender ears of the administrators. If we're looking to legislate morality, then a kid "repeatedly say[ing] 'fuck'" when other players can hear him is worse (IMO) than parents hearing a random "goddamnit."
To be clear, I'm not condemning your or your partner's ability as a ref and I wasn't there to see how this particular player/team had behaved prior to the incident. I also understand this is a grey area, especially for varsity-level games. It's just interesting to discuss issues like this one with refs.
you would be surprised how much shit we could call if there was no judgement involved. If we flagged every profanity heard on the field the game would be impossible to watch. Similarly everything that coaches think is a push, hold, ward, etc, etc. Most people do not understand lacrosse officiating because there is advantage/disadvantage to be considered, where even if there is a technical foul, if there is no advantage or disadvantage you don't call it. like a push away from the ball, where the guy pushed wasn't precluded from trying to win the GB.
My partner threw the flag and is much more experienced as an official than I. As for warning a player saying "Fuck" after getting scored on, and a kid screaming goddamnit at his teammates, to me the part that was unsportsmanlike was directing it at his players who werent in position to retain the ball after the shot. Them? you're the guy whose shot tried to snipe a corner and sailed north of the net.
You know that before you call anything on a coach, you typically warn them, take away the ball on a technical conduct, then flag them for USC. There is some leeway with players too. But if a player screams a profanity and the opposing bench hears it, it's a flag.
For the coach to argue that it isnt a swear and the refs religion played a part was not particularly smart IMO. He lost a teaching moment with the kid. He'll probably play another man-down at some point because he didnt educate this player.
I've derailed this thread enough. I understand that your partner made the call in strict accordance with 5-10-1(b) and the relevant penalty options. I struggle with how to treat repeated "fuck"ers (who are also in clear violation of 5-10-1(b)) like the one you warned because, as you noted, high school games would take 15 hours to play if every curse was properly flagged.
I also agree that the middle of the game is not the best place for a philosophical discussion on what is or is not profanity.
Anyway, I thank you for being an official - it's a difficult but absolutely essential job. I try to thank the officials after every game and make my players do the same thing.
thanks, happy to answer questions. I field lots of them at our kids games. An understanding of what goes on only makes it better. Nothing worse than an overly loud, underly informed sideline.
from a coaching standpoint, anything a player does that hurts the team is something you deal with. I have dropped some F bombs on the sideline, as has almost every coach that I've had the pleasure of sharing a sideline. I got flagged once for it. Not a proud moment, apologized for hurting the team.
I taught my own children that theres a difference between swearing at recess when you're in 6th grade on a field with your buddies, and doing it in a car in front of your mom or in a carpool, or a teacher, or a coach, etc. Time/Place. In other words, we all know you do it, don't be stupid and get jammed up.
Questions like "WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU WATCHING OUT THERE?!" while a clipboard smashes to pieces on the ground?Quote:
Originally Posted by MMP
Being a ref is hard, not that I'm letting bad ones off the hook, but it's something I have intentionally stayed away from.
I work with some sorry officials, I'm sorry to say.
Another thing that sucks is when you're reaching for your flag and the coach screams the call you're about to make. Makes it look like we're responding to them. Chirp chirp chirp. Relentless, some of them.
You didn't include that in your first post on the subject. Yelling "Goddammit" at yourself or the Universe is OK in my book, but no player should yell curses at a teammate. IMHO that is not cool - it's a team sport, not Professional Basketball which is an Individual sport these days. It's absolutely up to the refs to help maintain the soul of the sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by MMP
I've always taken the stance that if the profanity isn't directed at anyone and not overly loud, it's not my responsibility to teach the kid how to behave - I'm there to ref, not to parent.
But if it is directed at his teammates? Aren't you as a ref one of the moral arbiters of the sport? Technical fouls exist for a reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by shafty85
Well, I ref soccer, so no technical fouls. That being said, I think 'anyone' includes teammates. I am a little more lenient when it occurs between teammates because often players are ignorant of the rules because other refs often let it go. A quick warning often puts an end to it. If not, I deal with it accordingly and things shape up pretty quickly (either the player gets it or the coach knows he won't and subs him out).Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippster
If at the time it seems like unsportsmanlike conduct, call it. I can't stand kids that turn on their teammates. I typically start with a conduct penalty -a 30 second technical or loss of possession and then move on to USC.
I have absolutely no idea what sport you're referring to with those penalties...Quote:
Originally Posted by MMP
Lacrosse
If you commit a technical when in possession of the ball you lose the ball
Commit it when the other team has the ball it's a 30 second time serving technical.
Conduct is a technical foul and results in a loss of ball or 30 sec man down
Unsportsmanlike is a Personal foul 1-3 minutes. Nonreleasable.
If you cared. :)
I've been umping baseball now for 21 consecutive seasons. The last 8 at the HS and Jr college level. IME it's the parent with a little knowledge that is the worst. The coaches with the loudest mouths that set bad examples for their players get the shortest ropes from me. But yet last summer was the first time I've ever ejected a coach in 20 years. I was upset after the game because I was proud of the fact that after all the sh*t I've listened to over the years I'd never had to throw out a coach. This guy was in over his head, young twenty something that thought he was going to be cool and show his team what a tough guy he was. Wrong. He looked like an ass.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Gotz
And I've only ejected two players. First one was kinda funny. 12 year old many years ago. I called him out at first and as he ran back past me he looked at me and yelled, "are you fucking kidding me!?" I couldn't quite believe it at first, kinda chuckled to myself and then called time. Took the lineup card out and walked over to his coach and very quietly said to the coach, "Little Jimmy is out, who are you sending in for him?" Coach asks why, I tell him, he gives me the substitute, I enter onto the card and calmly walk back to my position. No one in the stands has a clue and it saves everyone embarrassment.