The Raven - Hoji's New Masterpiece

Checked out the Ravens in shop today. Impressive looking ski. They are much stiffer especially through the tail than I was expected. Stiffer than a Hoji and about the same or maybe a touch stiffer than the Renegade I would say. They weighed in at 1900grams/ski on the scale at the shop. The rocker profile is much mellower than that of the Hoji or Renegade, but still full reverse. The reverse part is difficult to perceive under foot but still there. Looks like a great variable conditions touring ski.

^^That sounds promising. I'm still really curious about the whole 23/30 m stated radius.

Anyone have photos of Raven's reverse camber ?

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Originally Posted by BrianColesIsSexy

Holy shit you guys are a bunch of negative nancies. Who said anything about it being for staying on? He cuts the skins shorts so they are lighter and attached an elastic quick pull with the toggle bit on the end. He lays the skin out, stretches the elastic and pops the toggle through the hole. Voila. Quick, light, solid. It may or may not come out, ever. It's Eric though, he is always trying to make stuff better and learn. Hell, if any of you actually looked at his Dynafit set up either your heads would explode or tgr forums would crash because of all the bitching, hypothesizing and begging going on.

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seems like a good idea and an easy mod. anyone got pics of this setup (the actual skins, not just the holes)?

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Originally Posted by piEr-O

Anyone have photos of Raven's reverse camber ?

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There's a pic in this thread

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...n-you-preorder

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Originally Posted by piEr-O

Anyone have photos of Raven's reverse camber ?

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Fondled a pair, and like the other 4frnts, the rocker is much more mellow than what they should be after the logic of "reflect tech", and this is really a good thing for anyone not skiing perfect pow all the time imo.

xyz > a pic of reverse camber curve ;)
Sist > cool, be a good thing for alpine conditions

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Originally Posted by piEr-O

xyz > a pic of reverse camber curve ;)

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Did you see post #9?

Xyz> sorry don't see the pic with computer ... But see with smartphone, it's ok. Thank Guy !

Profile camber have very low profile ... Very interested to try on hard or windy snow condition

got mine, considering selling due to personal reasons but they're screaming no that's for sure

currently mounted alpine with fks 18's, in bounds every day shredder?

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Originally Posted by StopMakingSense

got mine, considering selling due to personal reasons but they're screaming no that's for sure

currently mounted alpine with fks 18's, in bounds every day shredder?

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They're also screaming for a touring binding

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Originally Posted by smooth operator

They're also screaming for a touring binding

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call me lame but i'd rather have 93 underfoot with camber in an icy chute which I guess is where I am most of the time but on those pow days they would sure be nice

Might go quiver killer, just dont have the cash for an ion right now, what a problem to have huh?

It's a hard knock life

That's exactly my concern with the Raven. I'm in the market for a lightweight 100-ish touring ski, but I'm a bit sceptical about the rocker profile in icy conditions.

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Originally Posted by smooth operator

It's a hard knock life

That's exactly my concern with the Raven. I'm in the market for a lightweight 100-ish touring ski, but I'm a bit skeptical about the rocker profile in icy conditions.

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I'm not. It's not exactly banana rocker on the Ravens so I think the difference between a decambered typical 100-ish low camber tip(/tail) touring ski is negligible. A lot of people praise Völkls and Blizzards for their great edge hold etc despite being full rocker. The Raven was built for more demanding, various conditions in the first place. Based on a source I trust that have skied it for quite some time now I dont't see any problem going for the Raven as a "lightweight" 100-ish touring ski. Still awaiting both snow and Radical 2.0s to be sure though :)

Sure but nothing beats camber on ice and the ability to use that potential energy to power into your next turn, the ravens are stiff and do have good edge hold (I won't argue that) but it can't beat my G3 C93 cambered skis any day of the week on ice, they just won't

On the up, my G3's win (Lighter weight)
On the technical up, G3's win (Not as high, smaller, compact, easier to put away on the pack)
On the down, my G3's beat them in ice, Raven's destroy in punchy beat up conditions which isn't fun skiing just a lot less energy on a reverse ski, Raven's win in pow and take a lot less energy

My main energy loss on a big 12+ hour day would then be concerned with the "challenging conditions" which the G3's are terrible in, avy debris, frozen chunks etc but any way you look at it this stuff isn't fun to begin with. So for me why should I worry about slugging an extra 2lbs when I'll only be excited on them for maybe 10minutes when the rest of the day I'm stoked I'm on the G3's.

I'm mounting alpine then is the conclusion I've come to, even on a big day in the backcountry pow skiing wise it's fun getting deep with a sub-100 ski, digging the sub 6lb sticks

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Originally Posted by superdigg

. Still awaiting both snow and Radical 2.0s to be sure though :)

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I've been informed this may take a while (the rads that is, not sure about the snow)

I just snagged some demo Ravens from a buddy who knows the 4FRNT rep, I'll post rocker shots when they're in my hands. I'm going to mount these with Beasts and BF inserts. I haven't been on a ski less narrow than a '12 Bibby Pro for a few years, and the Rossi S3 was my first intro to rockered skis back in '09. Very stoked to get on these!

Also, not to hijack, but there are 4FRNT/Tyrolia Adrenalin demo clamps on these skis, anyone looking for a pair or two?

Any skied them? Thought on the recommended mounting point?

Eric got back to me with this


"I mount my Ravens with boot midsole at -6cm behind true center of the ski so 86cm measured from the tail. My boot sole is 25.5/284mm, I seem to remember you are a 26.5? If so you could go maybe for -6.5cm to have your toe piece in the same location as me...
*I would not go more than -8cm on this ski.
*I think the official mounting recommendation is at 87cm and I feel this could be a bit too far forward, especially with lager boots/taller people. Please share the updated 86cm location if people inquire.
*Also I strongly recommend aggressively de-tuning the first 30 cm of tip and tail edge (in the tapper section of the ski) on all my signature model skis. We are working on implementing this into production at the moment but it is difficult because it almost has to be done by hand... This aggressive de-tune is a personal thing but I find it really improves the forgiving surfyness of the skis, especially in difficult variable conditions.


For the Hoji I have been mounting mine with boot midsole at -5.5cm behind true center of the ski so 88cm measured from the tail. I go slightly more forward with the Hoji because at the moment it has more underfoot rocker than the Raven.
*We are working on slightly increasing the underfoot rocker on the Raven, we will have to build some new lower form block components as we are currently using the 186 Renegade form blocks to press the Ravens in SLC and this is contributing to the flattening out underfoot rocker profile."



So I'm 10mm longer BSl then him, and like a ski mounted back more of center then most people (including him) so I went -1cm from the recommended line, or 85cm from tail.

Will ski them this week and report back

Fondled these at the local shop. Definitely eyeing them up but wonder if the flatter rocker profile will ski differently than intended? The rocker profile doesn't match the sidecut as nice as it does on the Hoji.

Flatter rocker can only be a good thing for this style ski, IMO. But I haven't fondled them in person...I'd be really curious to see an actual rocker profile picture if anyone wants to post one.

mention—great stuff! Thanks. If Eric cares, I think it would be a mistake to do an aggressive factory detune of the Ren. I like my skis sharp and found that a pass or two with a soft (gray) gummy stone was enough for me on both of the pairs I owned. I think he could add the detuning suggestion in that letter that comes with each pair, though.

I've skied e'm. Go more back than forward IMO. I was submarining. But I'm also way too tall for the 184's. But my bud who's stocky and like 5"9 was also submarining so I'd still stay go more backward.

Sounds like Hoji is going to make sure that future models of this ski follow more of the reflect-tech. There is a minute bit of camber underfoot, and the rocker doesn't exactly match the sidecut. I'm still stoked to get on these as my skinnier touring ski, with a Spoon 120 for deep touring days.

Rocker:
Attachment 160596

Reflect-tech
Attachment 160597

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Originally Posted by mntlion

Eric got back to me with this


*We are working on slightly increasing the underfoot rocker on the Raven, we will have to build some new lower form block components as we are currently using the 186 Renegade form blocks to press the Ravens in SLC and this is contributing to the flattening out underfoot rocker profile."

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I'm reading this as the ski is still a work in progress. Is 2015/16 the year to buy these skis?

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Originally Posted by xyz

I'm reading this as the ski is still a work in progress. Is 2015/16 the year to buy these skis?

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Depends on what you want. I'd say hurry up and buy this years ;)

Most of the "white room" skis have small changes going on with them all the time. I think Matt said that the ravens have 9 different versions.

Odds are this is just a small, subtle change.

I have only had 1 short day on mine, but I think this might be the first 100mm ski that I like. Just been underwhelmed by lots of other options. seems to have the usually hoji ability to feather the edge from carve to pivot.

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Originally Posted by Graham

Sounds like Hoji is going to make sure that future models of this ski follow more of the reflect-tech. There is a minute bit of camber underfoot, and the rocker doesn't exactly match the sidecut. I'm still stoked to get on these as my skinnier touring ski, with a Spoon 120 for deep touring days.

Rocker:
Attachment 160596

Reflect-tech
Attachment 160597

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Received mine today and interestingly absolutely no camber or flat spot - jus a continuous low curve. Beautiful skis indeed!

1964 and 1939 grams undrilled

So 8.4 lbs are pair. Not as light as I thought they would come in at. Seems heavy for a ski that is only 102 under foot.

Normal for a ski without carbon, imo...

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Originally Posted by superdigg

Received mine today and interestingly absolutely no camber or flat spot - jus a continuous low curve. Beautiful skis indeed!

1964 and 1939 grams undrilled

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What number are yours? My set is #15. such a minute amount of camber, maybe they will flatten out after a bit. I really do like the idea of the White Room, but consistency is key. If two people review the same ski, one person liking it while the other doesn't - that's fine. I'm sure I'll enjoy mine, but I'd prefer if they were a little closer to what yours are shaped like. Oh well! Can't wait to get them on snow!

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Originally Posted by Graham

What number are yours? My set is #15. such a minute amount of camber, maybe they will flatten out after a bit.

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We saw a lot of that with EHPs, too. Some would come off the press with the tiniest bit of camber underfoot, but after a day or two it was gone.

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Originally Posted by Graham

What number are yours? My set is #15. such a minute amount of camber, maybe they will flatten out after a bit. I really do like the idea of the White Room, but consistency is key. If two people review the same ski, one person liking it while the other doesn't - that's fine. I'm sure I'll enjoy mine, but I'd prefer if they were a little closer to what yours are shaped like. Oh well! Can't wait to get them on snow!

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Sorry for the late answer - they are #84

First day on mine yesterday. Manmade with 10cm of pow on top.

Result: I'm in løøøve!

Extremely quick is the words that kept turning in my head. 4Frnt/Eric states that the Raven was made for variable conditions, I think they are spot on. They are not heavy enough to plow through shitty snow but they are stiff enough, stable enough and very directional/non-hookie. Did I say they were quick?

I'll be getting mine in the mail today…. debating waiting on radical ft 2's or just putting my old FT's on there, but either way you'll be hearing back from me soon….. sooooo STOKED!!!

Thought I should add, I'm new to 4frnt, bought and skied the Devastator this season too and must say the hype is lived up to for sure on very versatile skiing sticks. If I had bottomless pockets I'd grab up a Hoji this season too, as with 6" on top of a good base I was missing my 115-120 waisted skis float-ability, esp in early season. It would be nice to float and surf over a couple rocks I turned up, but overall the edge hold was way better than expected on groomed and icy spots, and they are so damn quick, pivoty, not as surfy as I thought, but still super fun and nimble with muscle. more to come

Anyone put some decent mileage on the ravens? any feedback? are they as good as I'm hoping they are? I'm more interested in how they handle variable snow. Looking at the raven over wailer 99s. Soft snow oriented ski, but looking for something that can hold an edge when things get shitty.. haven't skied any of their new stuff with reflect tech, but I've heard good things about the devastator, and new hojis.

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Originally Posted by M3Mike02

Anyone put some decent mileage on the ravens? any feedback? are they as good as I'm hoping they are? I'm more interested in how they handle variable snow. Looking at the raven over wailer 99s. Soft snow oriented ski, but looking for something that can hold an edge when things get shitty.. haven't skied any of their new stuff with reflect tech, but I've heard good things about the devastator, and new hojis.

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Well I have both the W99s (Pure2) and the Ravens... I do like the Ravens more for what you describe (holding an edge on shitty snow) as they are stiffer, heavier and have a higher turn radius. For pure soft snow it's more a question of preference in terms of construction and feel. Both are lightning quick edge to edge but I don't have to think about what happens next skiing shitty snow on Ravens.

The reflect tech on the Ravens are very mellow along what you see on some of the burly Völkls and Blizzards. Bought the Ravens because I was looking for the Renegade feel in a smaller package. Obviously I'm not talking about float in deep snow but quickness, easy release and "that special feeling" I get from skiing the Renegades.

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Originally Posted by superdigg

The reflect tech on the Ravens are very mellow along what you see on some of the burly Völkls and Blizzards. Bought the Ravens because I was looking for the Renegade feel in a smaller package. Obviously I'm not talking about float in deep snow but quickness, easy release and "that special feeling" I get from skiing the Renegades.

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Base-to-base side profile photo?

I love my hojis, but I'm still having issues getting the ravens as dialed.

195hoji vs 184 ravens.

tried 2 different mounting points (recomented and 5cm back of that. 5cm back puts the center of the raven, at the same center of 195hoji.
ramp angle on both bindings is the same (salomon 914 vs adrenaline)
boots the same
tried 2 differnt tunes, both from the same store that has tuned my skied for 15 years
tried de-tuning the tips and tails more

I find that on pow, or groomed its fine. just the feel I'm looking for, Hoji-light. On mixed and variable, I find I can control the ski, at the end of the turn. Just feels like its getting deflected. Maybe mount is too forward (remount a bit better) Maybe the skis not detuned (did tip and tail more, now dull past the contact point)
its as if the tip is getting deflected and I can't control it, or the tail is getting knocked around. but this is only at the end of the turn.

maybe the dual radius sidecut is fucking with me? just about all my other skis are 30m turn radius, the raven is 23/30 (thikn the front is more, but can't 100% tell)

mntlion.. any other skis you would compare it with? I think I remember reading about hoji detuning the tips and tails. anyone know where he mounts his? recommended line? I need an a/t setup I can take to NZ and ski any condition on. I'll have another set for everyday/work (cham 107) but I'm looking for a soft snow, do everything a/t setup. I've skied wailer 99s and 112s. 99s are on the radar.. now the blizzard zero Gs are in the mix as well. I wonder if they're changing anything for next year on the ravens? I guess we'll see soon enough….