xc trailwork night, put the kids to work on some jump rehab, fun fun fun
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xc trailwork night, put the kids to work on some jump rehab, fun fun fun
https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net...20&oe=57B76865
Thanks forty for your work on the local trails. I'm excited to try the refreshed features at Leb. I need to volunteer to dig this season.
whaaaaattt, a local in the mix???Quote:
Originally Posted by BaconMeCrazy
leb dig night tonight 6pm meeting at covington lot since trail is currently closed...
working on step down in the final climb, landing and berm need love and need to dial in the step up now that speed is sorted out
djs got some slaps, putting the young backs to work
https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net...4b&oe=579FDC6D
had a meeting with city last night about cgbp, selected company we want to contract for phase 3 of the bike park, sounds like we are looking at july for timeframe, cant wait, dig dig dig...
more tweaks on the xc trails, turned a huck to flat into a decent landing, needs some moisture and see how it settles, next session will be planting a rock for a doubleable drop on the roll in to this hit
https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net...39&oe=57CAF68C
phase 3 coming soon...
https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net...a8&oe=57C720D5
bizzuuuumpppp...
now back in OR, very thankful for my time in MN and being able to be involved in the cgbp project
2013
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/qo...x=w638-h600-no
2017
https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net...08&oe=5B62AE50
going to miss that place like crazy but looking forward to new opportunities
what have you kids been up to???
Bike park 242in Sisters OR
https://www.facebook.com/brittanyrea...type=3&theater
Grrr, can’t figure out how to embed
i actually stopped by and walked around a bit last week while passing through... looks like someone put some work into big line since then, nice!Quote:
Originally Posted by TBS
need to bring bike next time, fun looking little park, post up when another dig day is going on and will try to sneak over
Yup, Carson Storch (Team Red Bull) came by with his crew and an excavator last weekend. We didn't get video of the back flip he did off the last jump...
Next work party is April 28. Some re-shaping on the "blue" jump line, work on the drops and some of the skills features. Would love your help.
Creek gap and landing buildhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...7bdf27fbf6.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...44659f1abf.jpg
Our rainy season lasted for a month, so I got out while the digging was good. Built a couple re-routes on one of my local trails and fixed up a few trouble spots.
First re-route
http://www.habventures.com/photos/Di...304_215811.JPG
Second one, bermed corner then the trail traverses across to a bermed 90* turn
http://www.habventures.com/photos/Di...313_190048.JPG
Second corner
http://www.habventures.com/photos/Di...311_184302.JPG
From there trail turns downhill into a jump
http://www.habventures.com/photos/Di...311_182354.JPG
Another section fixed up. Dealt with a rut here and added drainage at the low spot
http://www.habventures.com/photos/Di...316_184417.JPG
Fixed the bermed runout here. A long rut had formed so added a couple drains and fixed the rut
http://www.habventures.com/photos/Di...319_232804.JPG
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBS
penciled in... may be able to make that
props for drainage work dog, and that wood looks sexy lee, nice stoke guys!
rain rain rain here but next week looks like drying out and can get started on spring cleanup at local park
Refreshed some berms. Repaired some rollers/grade reversalshttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...2fc835b42c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...010be72fce.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...52e856d40d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...899a560412.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ce8a88f958.jpg
kickass lee, those small tweaks to drain a puddle or realign a berm make all the difference when riding, but nobody really ever knows the time spent making it happen, i find doing that type of work to be a whole lot of fun and a chance to enhance the trail flavor but it takes a special type of person to do it, props
local bike park work party postponed a few weeks, sounds like machines needed to reschedule for early may
which meant i could catch up with my old dig crew at alsea falls last weekend at a big voly day they held, knocked a few rollers that were far to peaky and bucking people down to pumpable roll in for a tabletop, felt damn good to get shovel back in hand
Attachment 233901
planning to hit sisters bike park dig tomorrow, coming from west side if any lurkers happen to be paying attention and wanna tag along...
Went out a couple nights ago with a couple projects to finish.
Brushing requires beers, of course. Brushed around 1/4mi of trail.
http://www.habventures.com/photos/01...425_192009.jpg
Then rocked in the gap in this narrow spot. Dirt had all worn away leaving only big toothy exposed rocks that was unridable for most people. I'll do a more permanent fix next rainy season. There wasn't a lot I could do now.
http://www.habventures.com/photos/01...425_232933.jpg
Then got some miles for a night ride
http://www.habventures.com/photos/01...425_234538.jpg
Good day at Bike Park 242 in Beautiful Downtown Sisters OR
Some work, some pumpin' and some jumpin'
Big thanks to Forty who drove 200+ miles round trip to help us. You da' man! :yourock:
Rebuilding janky beatup berms and ladders for the KOMShttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...f0ab469ecf.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...2f015f6379.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...ea82769a9d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...222888946d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...cdce80c67e.jpg
Vollie grooming Saturday at Copper City (new trail system near 3 Forks MT). Worked on the DH specific section of new trail.
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35 workers and a couple hundred riders during the day.
https://www.facebook.com/Coppercity/
Wow, that's looking pretty damn polished.
Machine roughed in by Terraflow. We were dotting Is and crossing the Ts.
Ev, Lee, NB - great work.
Lee - Love the use of dead/down material for the features.
Evdog, are you on a solo labor of love, or are you getting some help?
Great that SWMT mags got 35 people out to dig in a relatively remote area. And second Norseman - Well done with the terraflow.
One more set of fixing grade reversals ie sendy rollers.
Fixed an exit. Deactivated a braided ridearoundhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...2c25a63a4f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...a024a6171b.jpg
Probably not great to use old wood as fill if you're concerned about longevity, especially in such a wet climate.
I wish we got to build more fun features around here but just getting to do anything is enough of a challenge. Mostly because we are surrounded by so much forest service land, where you can't build new trails. There is a new huge area in town though where we will hopefully get to do some fun stuff in the next couple of years, along with the stuff we've built above the XC course.
Used cedar. Which has a pretty long life especially if buried. The old ladder lasted a decade and we only pulled it apart because it was dirt topped and the rocks were poking out. This time we used rocks and cedar as fill and then sifted soil. So maybe 15 years>?Quote:
Originally Posted by jamal
There's some new trail on the miller creek side of the mount dean stone project. Pretty short, meant to access existing roads. I have not done any exploring or looking at maps up in there so I'm going to have to get out and ride around a bit pretty soon.
It was cut in with an excavator, today we just kind of smoothed things out
http://jamalb.net/gallery/d/9222-2/I..._102755445.jpg
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Did you make it on Saturday? I'm usually opposed to manual labor at 9am on the weekend.
Looks good.
They need to do it later on in the day since it's not hot yet. Seriously, not everyone goes to bed at 10:30 on a Friday night.
Hey diggers... finally getting more permission to do some digging at the local trails up here in Maine and hoping to shape up some of the downhills in order to improve the flow in a few key sections when rocks/terrain really suck up the speed. Hoping to build a few dirt transitions here and there to allow you to get a little bit of air over some of the garbage. Have mostly been building berms and still in remedial school with that... often building the berms outside of the natural line and then having to pull all the dirt into the turn after the fact. Given this...
-If you're trying to build a jump (and ideally a landing) how do you decide how big it/the gap should be before digging? Build the jump first, huck to flat and build the landing after?
-Same thing with rollers... how do you decide the spacing and how steep the incline should be?
-And still struggling with how to decide where to place the berm, how big it needs to be, angle, etc. I'm still shocked after I throw a bunch of dirt together, tamp it into the shape I want, then ride it, and my tire marks are nowhere near where I'd imagine.... often inside and only in the berm for the first half of the turn.
Danke!
Honestly, there isn't really any easy answer other than: go ride a lot of jumps and berms that are well built. Pay attention to how they're built, and develop an eye for what looks right.Quote:
Originally Posted by WaistDeepGroomers
For bigger stuff, you can do math and figure out entry speed, angle of the lip, and derive where the landing should be from that. But for any jump that's not fairly massive, that sort of thing doesn't tend to work very well.
I don't have an answer, but that berm you made at shp was and is perfect imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by WaistDeepGroomers
I can say that with all the new trails I have built, the turns change pretty dramatically over time as the trail gets worn in and speeds increase. We have too many turns that need berms right now. Need dirt diggers down here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaistDeepGroomers
at the end of the day it comes down to experience... mostly, kinda, sorta, i think
Thanks for the feedback, forty! Mostly I think lessons learned are:Quote:
Originally Posted by forty
-Build the berm a lot more inside than you think
-Build the roller a lot flatter than you think
-Use existing terrain for half your feature (jump or landing)
I think with our main DH the potential is there for it to be an excellent trail if some of the flatter chundery bits had a little lip or a landing to pump the trail, instead of square-edged chunder to rattle your bike to a dead stop on. Will be excited to kook around in the woods there once I get done with this house reno.
If you're building a berm on an existing trail, and assuming the corner is already more or less at the radius you want (which is a big assumption, since it's often not the case), I'd say the riding line of the berm should follow the outer edge of the existing trail. So if you're building the berm by digging down on the inside of the berm and piling up on outside of the berm, the berm should transition from below native grade to above native grade at the outer edge of the original trail. Of course, if you're building the berm that way, you have to make sure the inside of the berm is still going to drain.Quote:
Originally Posted by WaistDeepGroomers
I'm diggin' this berm talk. :cool:
I find berms one of the hardest things to get right. Without fail, every time I build one I end up starting the berm too soon and not extending it far enough. Now I consciously pay attention to that and still usually end up building it up more at the end. I see others doing the same thing. Plenty of riders get it right though. Nothing wrong with trial and error, it just takes longer. Take what you learn each time by testing what you built, and adjust it accordingly.Quote:
Originally Posted by WaistDeepGroomers
If you can, try to find some other diggers who are good at building jumps and berms. Even if they just eyeball your lines they may be able to offer useful input on the build. Bonus, if they can help with the digging.
I think part of the difficulty is that having the berm extend far enough to ride well is pretty frequently at odds with having the berm drain nicely. It's pretty common for a berm to come across the fall line, and end traversing, or even going slightly uphill. But to have the berm extend that far means that any water running down the trail into the entrance of the berm is going to get captured, and it's pretty common to see berms with a big puddle on the inside. And aside from the puddle issue, that also creates a sediment trap which, over time, will fill up and make your berm smaller and smaller. I've seen berms lose half their height to sedimentation in just 2-3 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by evdog
You can run a pipe through, but that's a pain in the ass, not particularly natural, and requires maintenance. You can build a little dry well on the inside of the berm, but they don't tend to work all that well. If you're building the trail from scratch, a lot of times you can just design the trail to minimize this issue, but that doesn't really help when building berms on existing trails. You can restrict your building to areas where it doesn't rain, or the soil drains really well, but that tends to be somewhat limiting. So that all means that plenty of berms end a bit early as a sort of trade off with the drainage issues.
I also don't know about making the berms tighter and smaller radius than you would expect. Usually I see the opposite problem where they're too tight, as standing there looking at a "big, wide corner" is a lot different from coming into it at 20mph. And then I see a lot of places where you run out of banking on corner exit when you still need it because there's a drain or just no more berm. Building an increasing radius corner, where you come in to a big berm and then it opens up, means you need less banking at the exit which can improve drainage.
That's what I was describing. Hadn't gotten around to drainage considerations yet. Drainage can be tough. Some of the better berms I've done have had the entrance and exit trajectory going on a contour across the slope. That way, I could have a drain both above and below the berm. The inslope of the berm keeps water off the tread in the turn, and then it crosses the trail and exits to the outside below the berm. Not that easy when the berm is located where water needs to drain. French drains using various rock have generally worked well in those cases.Quote:
Originally Posted by jamal
I'm confused about why drainage is an issue with berms.
I helped a trailbuilder build a couple over the winter and we dug it out kinda like a crescent moon... basically a low spot in the middle headed either away from the trail down slope or to a hole we dug out to hold the water.
Since the goal is to ride highish on the berm, it didnt seem like too much trouble to send the water away from the riding surface?
I'm just a hack, tho.
Another berm issue that I have not seen a lot of people realize is making the tread cupped. Banked turns are what I see built almost everywhere, and they are usually not steep enough. A great berm has a pocket that the tires are pressed into.The lower part of the tread is a taint flat. The upper edge is over-steep, like vertical. This shape will put riders right in the pocket. If they enter the berm low they will drift up into the groove. If they enter the Berm high, they will drift down into the groove. The result is a feeling of being pressed in to the berm. Many turns build as a flat tilted plane, like a banked turn in NASCAR still feel like you are skittering out to the edge and maybe fly off the uphill edge, or ride like a wall-ride for part of the turn but send you down to the bottom back onto the flat part way through. Cupping the tread allows for less precise tuning to achieve that glued-on feeling and allow the riders to stay on the berm for the entire changed in direction and keep speeds higher. When you get it right, the top of the berm will almost become over-hung and you can enter the turn a little low and will naturally drift up to the sweet spot, IMO this maybe the most pleasurable sensation available while riding a 2 wheeled vehicle.
Great advice above as well. I've known people to try and use math to figure out jumps/landings ect. It really comes down to test riding, developing a a feel for it. Leaving the landing pile long, flattish and unpacked allows for practice jumps with low consequence. Inevitable that you will move some dirt 2-3 times, limiting the reshaping is the goal, you'll almost never git it right the first time.