Hey thanks for that comparison Cap'O. Maybe the concepts would be a better touring ski on account of the low rocker? I'm leaning more towards a billygoat tour than a MVP now.
Printable View
Hey thanks for that comparison Cap'O. Maybe the concepts would be a better touring ski on account of the low rocker? I'm leaning more towards a billygoat tour than a MVP now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by klikboom
I have no reservations recommending the Billygoat for the down, not there yet with the MVP and scared I never will be. Was gonna give the MVP a few more rides before giving a review, but it's appearing that the lower rocker is what is keeping me from liking the ski.
Mine just arrived and are mounted, de-tuned and ready for a weekend of icy groomers and rocks in the Canadian Rockies. :D
Mounted with Griffon demo's and I'm starting on the line first, and the line "looks" pretty good to me. Shape looks pretty awesome in person and the very minimal camber under foot is exactly what I want... but there's a bit more rocker in the tip and tail than I anticipated. Still not much, though, which is what I was looking for in this ski, which I'm hoping is going to be my daily driver.
As expected, build quality is top notch and the weight is spot on as listed in the specs at 9 pounds. Subjectively, they feel pretty light for a 187 with this width under foot.
I have 187 carbon med stiff mounted with a baron on the dimple.
Only have had them out twice. Once early season on spring like conditions and they were fine, but a little flappy at speed compared to my mantra. But that was not a fair comparison imo.
Yesterday got out into a variety of conditions. East coast.
Untracked just below knee deep they performed incredibly well. Just responsive and playful. Easy.
Wind blown fairly firm carvable steep they were spot on. Responsive and held the edge perfectly.
Cut up powder on the side of a groomer to get back to the lift was just stoopid fun.
Firm carvable moguls...ahh, I hate that shit these days, but they worked just fine. :tongue: I'll be taking them to Taos next week and I'm sure I'll see plenty more of that.
So far very happy.
Anyone have a direct comparison between this and the GPO? While the MVP is more of the waist size I was looking for, on paper the longer camber contact area and lower tail rocker of the GPO seem to make it more versatile. Or am I talking out of my ass here?
I have both, love both, but they are two completely different skis... I will say this, I have a ton of skis and if I was forced to keep only one pair w/o hesitation it would be my 193 Praxis MVPs... This ski to me is the closest I have come to for a true one ski quiver... Fun as hell, easy to ski, but still handles speed, steeps and crud beautifully... If I am traveling or skiing and have no idea what the conditions will be like than the MVPs are getting the call... Now if it has snowed and I am staring at a POW day the GPOs are coming out to play... I know many people that use 117+ underfoot as daily drivers, but if you are looking for a daily driver I would go the MVP... I absolutely love this ski... I guess through the design Keith was able to make a fun playful ski and at the same time one that will pretty much knock down anything in front of it will little issue...Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffman
Not sure if I answered your question, but if there are traits/abilities of a ski you are looking for than let me know and I will try to break it down and be a bit more specific...
I've got an issue with my mid-stiff 187 MVP's. I'm 6'3" and 175 and have them mounted on the dimple. I got these in the middle of last year and probably detuned them too much. I got them tuned again at the beginning of this year and haven't detuned them since. We've had a bunch of snow so I haven't really noticed that I hadn't detuned the tips and tails.
I love them in anything other than firm conditions where I find that they won't let me lay them flat and just cruise back to the lift or on a traverse. The tips feel very hooky in those conditions. On anything soft, groomers, pow, cut up, etc. they feel fine but on hard pack I feel like I can't pressure the front of the ski and they get squirrely perhaps due to the mount. This also happens if I'm trying to ski between lifts and my boots are unbuckled or loose. The downhill or outside ski won't carve and just keeps going in the "wrong" direction. This occurs with boots buckled as well but is less obvious.
I fully admit that it could be a result of me skiing lazy and being punished for it. I think part of that is I feel really far forward and I'm trying to compensate and the result is this hookiness. I guess I'm trying to figure out the issue and if I just need to detune the tips and tails or remount further back.
Any input is appreciated as I love these skis as a daily driver and would like to figure out what my issue is.
Anyone skied both the MVP and the ON3P Jeffrey and care to compare/contrast?
concrete, that sounds like a (lack of) detuning issue to me. I generally have that exact problem with Praxis skis until I work on the edges.
I'm thinking it's your tune. I finally have a number of days (I don't keep track) on these boards from knee deep powder to bulletproof EC conditions. I have the same boards and weigh the same as you.Quote:
Originally Posted by concretejungle
I have not touched the side or flat bevel, so still the factory tune. I detuned tips and tails a few inches at best. I am also mounted on the dimple.
It almost sounds like they are railed a little in the shovel area? It does seem like a lot of people have a hard time dialing the ski in when it comes the sharpness of the edges. But personally, I put a true bar on those and take a look at what kind of bevel is on the base edge. Shops can f up skis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by adrenalated
Not Jeffrey, but my MVP's are going to get replaced with Steeples.
I went 193 carbon xtrastiff in the MVP and just flat out couldn't get them to do what I wanted. User error, tuning, too stiff, I don't know? On paper I was sure the MVP were the ticket. For my fatass in Colorado snow, the only place I liked the MVP was perfectly groomed. In nice powder I couldn't get them to smear and slarve. Didn't like them in the trees or bumps, to be perfectly honest I'm really bummed with the MVP. I detuned the tips and tails and had them waxed up good, haven't put a straight edge on them.
My thinking why I'm not getting along with the MVP, is that the rocker while long, isn't high enough? Thinking the flattish rocker is making the ski act like a flat ski in 3d snow?
detuned my mvp's tips to round then beat them on the ice for a few weeks to break them in. they ski fine but i still prefer the RX for daily use.
b
It's the tune. Don't be shy with the gummi stone in the rockered sections.
Quote:
Originally Posted by concretejungle
Undertow,
I have the GPO and I love it. Total quiver of one type ride. I don't love it on deep days. But any other time, it's really a great ski. I have 188 mtn jibs that are about to die and 184 piste jibs that I've been using on firm bumps/park days. Considering pairing down the ole quiver at some point and the impending preseason sale has me interested. Thinking I could turn the MVP into my daily/firm, GPO touring and Billy Goat for any fresh days.
Any quick comparisons you can make directly? Quickness, float, bumps, ice, pow, stability at speed, any park laps if you got em...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertow
SC,
I have the 191 Billy, 192 GPO and 193 MVP and unless it is completely blower the MVPs get the call... I will try and answer yor questions below...:
Park - no help here as I am ex racer which equates to anti jibber/park rat...
Groomers - the MVP is a blast on groomers and will rail big GS turns with ease and at the same time is quick edge to edge... The ski to me is extremely damp and even if you load it up it does not pop from turn to turn... It does what you ask it to and does not bitch...
POW - I have not had it out in anything over 6 inches as I will pull out the other fatties in the quiver... However, the new snow I have had it in the ski did great and was an absolute blast... Plus once the snow gets junked up during the day the ski did very well here with little to no deflection... It is no Dynastar LP or ON3P Wren, but sure as hell held it's own...
Ice - unless it was bullet proof the ski holds and never once did it ever slip on me... If the surface is remotely soft the ski holds and enspires confidence...
Speed - I have yet to find a speed the ski will get squirrelly... As stated earlier I am not a jibber and like fast big GS turns and not once did the ski loose it's composure... Once I start getting up there in speed you will see some tip flap,but I only notice this when looking down... Never do I feel it inthe ski...
Bumps - zeros issue here... I am on the 193 so if they are big, deep troughed bumps than yes they are work... However, I recently skied a bump run that the bumps were nicely placed with some new snow and had the biggest smile on my face... Lapped that run probably 8 to 10 times before moving on...
As I posted previously I am absolutely in love with this ski.. I have not experienced any of the issues posted that others have... I love the mount point and do not feel the MVP skis shorts... I can rail groomers and when needed have zero issues throwing the ski sideways (shut it down)... And other than my 192 Opus's the MVP is my favorite ski in the trees... If Keith stated he was dropping the MVP I would order a backup pair immediately... And if he were ever to build a bigger brother - 120 underfoot with a bit more tip and tail rocker I would be the first in line for a POW ski...
Some stats...:
6'4"
205 lbs
Ex racer
Salomon X Max 130 with booster strap
Skis I love...:
191 Billy
192 GPO
196 Ren
194 XXL
192 Opus (this ski is just so much fun and über easy to ski especially with the Fam I broke my rule)
191 Wren
191 Katana
Skis I Did Not Like...:
Bentchetler
Bibby Pro
Rossi Super 7
Hope that helps... I am leaving for a ski trip with the misses and some friends tomorrow and the two skis in my bag are my GPOs and MVPs...
I can relate. I picked up a very lightly-used pair (a total of six runs, I think) of 187 MVPs (12/13) with the carbon layup (med/stiff) here on gear swap. I mounted them with Plums and detuned the tips and tails, but they felt really hooky and weird - even in powder. After 3 days in a variety of conditions, I brought them to a friend's shop to throw on toe shims. He's an experienced tech and took one look at em, and said they looked rail high. After a base grind and working on the base bevel, they skied MUCH better.Quote:
Originally Posted by concretejungle
As another commenter said, get a true bar and maybe do a base grind and bevel if necessary.
FWIW I'm 6', 190#. Mounted 1.5 back from the dimple.
I am now skiing my billys and I'm upset I didn't get a pair sooner.
You like the 196 ren, huh? I found the 186 to be weird, small balance point and really required a "just so" stance to function well. As others have pointed out, I might be doing it wrong, but I never feel that way on the GPO. I've been intrigued by the katana as long as I can remember, but after my ren experience, I am leery of a full rocker.
I agree re: Super 7. I haven't skied the bentchetler. I didn't mind the bibby, but it was inferior to the gambit, BG and GPO.
Always wanted to try the Opus. I envy your quiver. I say that seldomly.
If any needs a 15% discount code, PM me. Another referral or two at praxis, and I'll pull the trigger on some 193s.
My assesment of the MVP is that I found it a bit hooky when I was behind the recommended line, but on the line and I get none of that. It's actually a drastic and noticable difference for me with a 1cm difference in mount point. Go on the line if you haven't already.
If your skis are "railed" or "edge high" they will absolutly be hooky. I'm pretty sure mine are not but now I'm going to check.
I honestly wasn't really sold on mine but took them out a couple of times last week and I think I found my comfort zone with them on my last run.
The minor concerns I still have are:
1) I think they're too stiff in the stock flex for my 160 pound frame to be useful in powder. As a do-it-all ski, I don't want to feel like I can't bring the tips up... for me, that requires a fair amount of speed.
2) They need to be center mounted to work well with the shape, but that's more tail than my skiing style is really comfortable with.
Neither of these concerns is really an issue when you open up the throttle and let them run, but you need to keep your weight fairly centered when doing this and it's at those speeds I usually appreciate a bit more ski in front and a bit less behind. But it was just letting them run in a chopped powder/crud run where I really had an "aha!" moment.
I hate comparisons in someways as its all subjective but I have a dilemma I want solved.
193 MVP next to 191 Katana, me fat bastard who skis like a fat bastard, used to race a little and cant ski switch for shit, never truly fallen in love with a set of non racist skis yet, my Kastle FX94s I enjoy but there not amazing at anything, and Ive skied them that hard on piste Ive added tip rocker to them (I had the non rockered 2012 model) it appears they do have a speed limit and I found this trying to rail like I do on my GS skis, other pet hate the only thing that rails like a GS ski is a GS ski, I want something I can charge on though but I know how to accept theres a compromise when it doesnt have a race plate.
^^^ To me it sounds like you want the Katana.
More traditional mounting point (so you can drive the tips a bit more) and it's likely going to be easire to engage the entire edge when you lay it over.
I presonally think that rocker and sidecut starting points just roughly match... otherwise you don't really know how much edge you're going to engage when you lay it over. I sometimes feel like I had that problem on the MVP, but maybe I still hadn't dialed it in when I felt that.
I still love mine.
My 183 carbon mvps are going on the block this weekend ... sizing up .. anyone interested PM me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by N1CK.
Putting my 193's on the block, holler if interested. 3 days on them, detuned tips and tails with base scratches from riding in the parking lot.
Picked up a pair of carbon 183 medium flex to give the MVP another try. Last pair was 187 medium stiff. Mounted with dynafits skied with vulcans. These are way better! I can control them easily at all speeds, can break the tail and slash anywhere. They must be skied from a centre or slightly back in deeper snow. They take a bit more effort to ski switch in deep pow than my maestros and sickles. I am 135lbs so for smaller guys/gals I would recommend the medium flex.
Thanks for this tidbit. I am going to remount mine with Sollyfits, and move up to the line, or -0.5. Had to mount my tech bindings back at -1.5 due to a prior mount - plus I thought I was going to like it there better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shorty_J
Best result: I get to try em with STHs!
The opinion/help/comments of the collective is once again required:
I'm tempted to buy a pair of MVPs, and would like some sizing assistance. Despite the rocker, it sounds like they don't ski short, so I was wondering if I could get away with the 183s. These would primarily be skied at the NZ club fields, so narrow, steep couloirs opening into big bowls; technical to full throttle. Zero trees. Also, you do a lot of booting and ridge hiking, so the shorter the better in that regard.
Windbuff to boilerplate, crud, powder and cream cheese (sometimes in one run), but no bumps and no groomers.
Would be mounted with SollyFits, so again, shorter/lighter might be the go.
Thanks for your time :-)
I'm 6'1 x 170lbs plus gear.
Sounds like a great ski for those conditions. I'm 6' 185#. I had the 187 carbon in med/stiff. There's a lot of rocker, so I'd suggest the 187s. I could have gone with a 191 (do they make that length?) and been fine. They skied short to me, but I also found they preferred either high edge angles or going pretty straight, and not too much in between. Which I really liked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Island Bay
The obvious answer is "ask Keith".
I used both 187 and 193 at stock flex last year. While they ski "short" IMO - the lengths handle pretty differently. The shorter length is notably more nimble for shorter carved turns. The longer one has more punch and stability. But the longer one also needs more smearing vs carving in tighter places. Both felt solid to me. I'm not a fast skier at all, but both kept me comfortable at the high end of my speed range. Super nice ski IMO. I weigh about 40-50 pounds more than you do IB...
Thanks for the input; meter-man too. Much appreciated.Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift
I've already contacted Keith the Oracle; will let you know what his reponse is...
...and his verdict is: either or.
He likes shorter skis, and thinks I could get away with either, depending on my taste and style, but would probably just lean towards the 187.
187s just arrived. Great looking skis - with quite a bit of backbone! Definitely no noodles. Perfect build (as usual). Tips and tails have been detuned a bit (a Praxis first!).
Will be mounted with SollyFits on the line, and will be skied on Monday at Craigieburn. Happy camper with high hopes.
Oh, and the top sheet (Maple) looks beautiful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Island Bay
Got mine at the end of last season.
They're perfect
Sent from the other side
Has this ski been updated any?
Strike that, I reread that email...
We changed the tip and tail a bit, going with the same longer/slower rise in the tip and tail upturn that we did for the FRS, but not adding the extra rocker.
He also said he is planning to redesign the 109 this winter to make it more hard snow capable, longer running length and effective edge, tighter radius, better carving type of stuff
Reviews of this ski seem to be all over the place. Talk of changes for next year only add to the paralysis by analysis...
I want a twin, over 190cm, that can rail a soft groomer, hold a decent edge when it's firm but no need to be spectacular there. I want it to enjoy speed and encourage popping off everything. On paper, the 193 mvp looks tits.
What says the collective these days re: mvp?
Just wanted to add that Praxis sends skis out razor sharp, tip to tail, and a lot of people don’t realize this, and ski them and find them twitchy.
They do a review and then later tune them and don’t edit their review.
I'm planning to sell my custom 3+ flex, very good condition 193 MVPs from 13/14 if you're interested. Enduro core, cherry graphic topsheet (nylon), drilled once for pivot @ 301 bsl 1cm behind the line.Quote:
Originally Posted by nickel
Replacing the 193s with 187s MVPs
I'll pass thanks, but would be appreciative of thoughts on the ski? What did you like/ not like, what behavior makes you want to go shorter?
I'm not good at describing the attributes and nuances of a particular ski, but I'll try.
I think the ski is made to power through any rough conditions and get a bit of float in fresh. It isn't a powder ski, or a groomer ski, it's a junk snow ski. Although, it's fun in powder and on groomers.
Used the MVP ~40 days, mostly chopped-up, skied out resort soft snow and it excelled in those conditions. The length and flex made the snow feel smooth and creamy. Very tight trees were challenging, the -1 mount probably didn't help me there. Wish I would've started with my boot center on the line, but I was coming from traditionally mounted skis like a Legend Pro. Well spaced trees were easy and comfortable. Deepest snow I skied was ~3', they trucked along but more through the snow instead of on top.
Always had a great day on the MVP, never really wanted to swap out because of conditions. No new snow, couple feet of fresh... it really did just fine in all of that.
Thanks for the thoughts.
I can't help but feel that the most direct comparison would be a 4frnt devastator, especially if shopping for a twin over 19x. Anyone got time on both?
Well fuck it. Trigger pulled on a 193 mvp. Keith is so far above and beyond in his communication with clients, it's amazing really.
Right on! You'll enjoyQuote:
Originally Posted by nickel
This. I've already noticed a difference taking a gummy stone to the edges but I'm curious on doing more. How much detuning are people doing? I've heard of people completely rounding the edges with a file on Protests, but that's a completely different ski..Quote:
Originally Posted by plugboots