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It was very mellow skiing! Just sliding around on some easy groomers - more details up the page.
Going again in about 3 weeks which will be just over 6 months post-op. Hope to ski some more challenging stuff - longish off piste runs if the snow's decent. Still won't go mad but it'll be a bit closer to normal :)
The other thing that my first doc explained to me when I kept asking about this over and over and over again is that if you're a pro athlete, it's sometimes considered worth the risk of retearing or causing permanent damage that you'll pay for in the long run. And they just will not advise anyone else to risk it unless they've got big bucks on the line or some race/event/opportunity that will never come again. Are a couple extra ski days worth re-tearing it and having to go through surgery all over again, starting from a weaker point than you did the first time and possibly with more damage, and also meaning you might be missing out on a lot more good future ski days while you're rehabbing all over again? Probably not. But the Olympics, or a bowl game or whatever else probably is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arno
Good point. Judging from my experience, it isn't that hard to tear a healthy ACL so you can understand them being conservative about a newly replaced one.
Also, apparently the football players on that program had hamstring tendon grafts with the graft taken from the strong leg. Apparently this means you need to rehab both legs, but neither is weakened as much as the single leg if the graft comes from the weak leg.
Well put, AG. It's all about risk/reward ratio, and I gotta say that mine has changed since this event in my life. The look on my kid's faces when they understand that I can't run around with them any more or ski with them or join them on the skating pond hurts like hell. My four year old actually thought that I was going to be on "crunchers" for ever. I don't think she actually believed that I was going to heal until she saw me hobbling around without them. Now every night when I carry her upstairs to her room, the limp is less and less pronounced, and by spring, hopefully, I'll be the old active dad that she probably doesn't even remember. When I'm coaching soccer again, and running 5ks with my 10 year old, and taking long bike rides with the little ones in the tow trailer, I'll think twice before I jeopardize all that for some extra air or a faster steeper line on the mt. bike or skis. You don't know what you've got till it's gone, and sometimes you don't realize who you're taking it away from. Sorry for the rant. I can't wait to get better. That is all.
Ok...nearly at 4 month's post-op (just a few days away) and here's where I'm at:
Went mountain biking yesterday...not just lame fireroad strolls, but muddy semi-tech long singletrack with a few grueling climbs and lots of fun fast downhill. Knee felt freaking bomber. I was a little sketched taking turns fast, so I kept the speed down pretty low in spots just in case. I did have one instance though that sketched me out pretty good....I was maneuvering through a tight little hairpin turn, got messed up, and got thrown forward a little and had to quickly click out with my "bad" leg and stomp my foot down to catch my fall. Just before I stomped my foot down to catch my fall, I thought "NO!", but then nothing happened. I stomped it and knee felt fine. Phew! Well, at least I know it can handle that. :)
Woke up this morning expecting my knee to be a little sore from the previous days mountain biking, but nothing. Cool. So went on a 35 minute run and it was the best run I've had yet. Knee felt completely normal. Hamstring felt normal and I ran at a near normal pace. Also threw in a few hills and everything felt great. Got back home and threw a leg over the roadie and spun 40 flat miles. At 4 months, my knee feels nearly 100%.
However, there still seems to be an upper limit to flexion. I think flexion is pretty where it was before surgery, but it just isn't comfortable yet hanging out there. Should work itself out over the next month or so.
Feeling like I'm getting sooo damn close....
don't stress over the flexion thing. It may take some time before it comes back fully.
Congrats on the progress and breaking through that first psychological barrier of trusting the knee to support you in a fall.
Rock on Ty! I can't wait for the snow to melt around here so I can hit the trails myself. I need to test it.
You are man. What like 1 month and you can ski again?Quote:
Feeling like I'm getting sooo damn close....
Congrats on the running. I am about 2.5 weeks from running. I've never really done any running in the past but as soon as the Doc ok's it I will.
Well, I think I'm 2 months out from skiing. 2 months from now would be 6 month's post-op and that's what have been told since day 1 to get back on snow. I do have an upcoming visit with the ortho on 3/24, so I will see what he says then...maybe I ski groomers cautiously at 5 months...who knows.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Ranger
My advice on the running...is to just take it real slow and listen to your knee. I used to run quite a bit prior to surgery and things felt weird at first. i.e. hamstring felt tight, knee proprioception seemed a little off, etc. etc. Just take it slow...maybe jog a little, see how it feels, then walk a little, then jog again, take yer time and take 'er easy.
I was told 5. But really I think that I will let my body decide. I am planning on snowboarding untracked powder/skiing groomers cautiously at the 5 month mark. However, I would hate to come back to early in May and tear the damn thing again.Quote:
Well, I think I'm 2 months out from skiing. 2 months from now would be 6 month's post-op and that's what have been told since day 1 to get back on snow. I do have an upcoming visit with the ortho on 3/24, so I will see what he says then...maybe I ski groomers cautiously at 5 months...who knows.
I've been slacking. With two kids and a pregnant wife there is little time or motivation for rehab. The roads around here are covered in sand, and there are no shoulders due to all the snow. A little xc, and a few bike rides and thats it. Is there anything more boring than lunges and squats? But that's what I need to be doing more of to get where you're at, Ty. Good goin', I'm jelous.
4.5 month update (just updating as this has become a little journal of all this for me...no need to reply..will probably just update about once or twice more after this)
Alternating days of run/bike/run/bike....Running 30-35 minutes every other day and bumped it up to 40 minutes for the first time yesterday. Felt fine, but hamstring felt pretty tight that everning afterwards. Happy with the progress since @ 3 months I had to stop running after like 10 minutes to walk a little. Goal is to be able to go on runs of an hour @ 8 minute/mile or less pace at the 6 months mark. We'll see...might be too aggressive pace wise...gotta shoot for somethin though.
Still riding road mainly 'cause I can log more miles and get a better work out than mountain. Lots of hills on the weekdays after work with longer rides of 3 hours or so on the weekends. Gotta get those longer rides...longer...with the Death Ride coming up in July.
Watched my soccer team play the other night. Was passing around with them before the game and the knee felt fine with passing and just generally knocking the ball around. I decided to rip a shot....and it felt GREAT. Definitely will not return to really playing though at least for another month and a half (6 months) to be safe.
Skiing for the first time since surgery...tomorrow. Making a coupla groomer runs and then watching the comp mainly. Will probably be favoring my non-operative leg, but we'll see. Will be wearing brace of course...
Good luck and have fun with the skiing!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces
I'll echo Altagirl!
I've been skiing a couple of times since my first effort 4.5 months in. The difference is huge but not really going for it yet. That'll have to wait until next season. Still, 6mths post op, I managed a long off-piste descent at Gressonney (1700m) vertical with a bit of walking, mixed snow and some billy goating at the end which was really motivating.
Hope that provides a bit of encouragement!
(x-posted from a thread in the main forum...wanted to keep this in this thread)
Quicky First Day Back TR
Got there around 8:30 and was immediately met by skier666 who pulled in right behind me after a 2 and half hour cruise from downtown SF. He was all jacked up on caffeine, speed, and loud D&B music from his drive, was talking about gnar descents in OB Thunder Bowl, and this being my first day back I'm like, "Hmmm...I think I need to take a few runs with no one around & no one watching".
So I was off to ski the ultra kickass radness that is Chair 5. For those that don't know, Chair 5 at KW has some of those most extremely, gnar flats around the mountain. Chair 6, 10, & the OB might get all the press, but mustering up the courage to risk the chance of being seen lapping the bunny pancake flats of Chair 5 takes balls of steel I tell you. Balls of steel.
So I clicked into my bindings, took a deep breath, and skated up to the Chair. Truth be told, I was pretty apprehensive. I didn't know what to expect. With the exception of coming back from a fairly serious head injury when I was 15, I had never come back from an injury before. Would my knee hurt? Will it feel unstable? Did I rehab hard enough for the extremo terrain of Chair 5? Will I damage it if I angulate too much into a turn...if I ski too fast? All this plus more flashed through my mind simulataneously.
Riding the lift I had the chance to watch some racer types & IFSA competitors getting some early warm-up runs in slashing deep fast carves coming down from the top of the mountain. ( I think I used to ski that fast. I think I used to turn like that. Can I still do that? What if I can't?)
So I get off the lift, slide down the ramp, (Hey this feels familiar), and start slowly on down. Naturally I turn right with my 'good' leg downhill and weighted (Hey that's a carve, that feels right), then cautiously unweight, roll the knees, edges, and skid out a quick left with my 'bad' leg weighted (ok no pain, I turned, sorta, great, let's go faster), carve back to the left, swivel to the right, carve, swivel, carve, skid...(faster, start arcing 'em, angulate that knee in, holy shit things feel fine)...carve to the right, (c'mon no more skidding out, weight that knee, you've done enough, go faster), roll the edges across the fall line back to the left, weight that downhill leg, pressure that tip (more more, tuck that knee IN, feel it touch the uphill boot, fuck I'm carving, I'm flying, I'm fucking skiing again!!).....approaching the last steep pitch coming down to Chair 5 & 6...snow is softer here....arc 'em, carve 'em, lay 'em down, hold 'em, fast, faster, go faster........
I'm not seeing the slope anymore, but I'm on the bike, back in December, or January, coulda been February, I'm on the trainer in my garage, it's dumping outside, it hurts, but I'm pedaling sweating cursing fighting through it, cursing my knee, cursing the lost season, telling my surgeon to F-off, swearing my fucking ass off that I'll never stop pedaling and feeling the pain until I come back, so that when I come back it will be like I never left. Like I never missed a day. Like I never even got hurt in the first place.....I skied that last pitch like I knew I could. It felt like I had been skiing all year and my knee felt so damn good. Screw chair 5...get on 6
So I head up 6 to the top...Zachs, Janek, Olympic, and Sentinel were all groomer corduroy. Take a run down Janek exloring how the knee feels. Exploring how my feet feel again in my boots. Exploring how it feels to pressure an edge and hold it through a fast arc. Exploring how the wind feels in my face & through my jacket. See 666 riding up as I'm heading down. I waited at the bottom for him....it was back on......
:) :) :)
Congrats Ron.....that had to feel amazing.
I am glad that it didnt swell and you could road ride today. Definately continue to take it a bit easy (or at least short days). Britney came back at exactly 5 months (opening day at Kirkwood), and we skied short days both Sat and Sunday. Then the next Sat (Halloween) we skied all day at Squaw (off piste and just all over), and it was a real setback for her. Her knee swelled like crazy and she had to take two weekends off (couldnt even ride the exercise bike).
So, dont do that.
I would like to hear what kind of lateral exercises you did to prepare for actual skiing? Britney had been running 10 K races, riding around lake tahoe, all kinds of stuff.....but skiing was a different ballgame all together. I need a good game plan for months 5-8 (Sept + Nov).....thinking "Reebok Slide" thing, maybe some blading, and hiking (with sticks). Thoughts, anyone?
I did a lot of balance work (on an Xerdisc), in combination with cariocas, lunges in a circle (where you step forward and then out at clock positions, firt with your foot pointed straight forward at each one, then with your foot pointed out in line with your thigh.) I did some work on a skier's edge (which would be about the same as the reebok slide thing), but mostly the other stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckwheat
I've yet to have my knee swell up from skiing, but I've been careful to quit at the first sign of being tired and weak. It was a little tender after the last pow day (the high T was a freaking mess and didn't feel so great), so I took 2 days off to rest up, but I was able to XC ski and bike and everything right afterwards, I just didn't want to risk overdoing it going too nuts with regular skiing. But even soft bumps (the kind that show up on a groomer mid-afternoon on a soft day) have felt great too.
Well, I may have already done some of that....what I didn't mention in my TR above is that as the day went on, I started slowly venturing off-piste. Into the crud. By the end of the day, I was making cautious turns off the wall ridge and then all the way down through Waterfall.....this is all off-piste. Was skiing pretty fast through all this too...keeping up with the crew and all that. Knee felt fine the entire time and didn't really swell, but I probably did ski a bit more terrain-wise than I should have....er, maybe not, because everything is fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckwheat
As far at lateral stuff, I haven't been doing any too specific. I guess the closest thing would be a ton of Bosu Ball exercies. I got one to use at home and spend a lot of time on that thing working on balance. You can also do lots of ski specific movments on it...think like sideways lunges (probably a better name), jumping on & off of it side-to-side one leg and two legs, etc. Also do the standard one-footed balancing exercises on it and stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces
That sounds key....I love that thing. How far in where you when you started using it?
Glad the off piste went well for you. Hope you spring season continues to be great. We got over a foot last night, so the spring base is continuing to build. :)
Hmmm...not sure how far in. My PT had me on the Bosu pretty early...definitely within the first month...maybe a couple weeks post-op? Granted, at this point, I was only standing on it, to work on proprioception and balance. I'd stand on it with two feet and hold onto a bar for balance. Then I let go of the bar and see it felt. That was pretty easy, so then they had me standing on it with one foot. First time I did one-foot was pretty tough...I was doing 30 second 'reps'...gave your ankle a heck of a workout too as it was trying to compensate for the instability in the knee.Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckwheat
Once balance on one-foot on the bosu became no big deal, then they had me progress to doing squats while standing on it and such.
And actually, the place I ordered my own Bosu gave me the option of getting a free workout DVD with the ball. They had sport specific DVD's that run you through Bosu exercises specific to your sport. So I got the skiing DVD and the soccer DVD...which are actually pretty similar. I'll ask Mrs. Shoe where she got it from...
Well my 5 month post-op date has come on and gone...this will my last update here until I hit 6 months in about 3.5 weeks, then this thread is killed.
Right at 5 months, went on some lift accessed OB skiing @ Kirkwood. Lot's of yo-yo'ing..lots of skinning & touring. Knee felt great but with all the skinning/touring I was a little worried about what it feel like because this was something new that I hadn't tested it out yet. I was a little sketched keeping purchase on a few steep-ish switchbacks, but mostly everything was fine. The only time my knee felt remotely weird is when I had to do a 90 degree kick turn on a slight uphill...twisting my knee that much 'caused a stretching sensation, but nothing dramatic.
On the downhill, we encountered all kinds of conditions...lots of corn, and lots of heavy mank as the day wore on...knee felt a little weird in the mank, but I just slowed it down and was ultra-careful...on the corn, I was opening 'er up :cool:
Best thing...no swelling or soreness whatsoever the next day! Wohoo!
One bad thing though is I found skinning with my brace sucks. This one strap kept digging into the back of my thigh and I have a painful "burn" cut thing there now...ouch.
Flexion seems like it's nearly back to 100%....there's only just a slight discomfort say if I were to squat all the way down to the floor and hold it...but that's it.
I'm still heeding the docs orders though and not playing soccer until 6 months. I have been shooting around though with my old team, and blasting shots and passing feels good. Can't wait to get back out there. And I'm sure I won't really be letting loose on skis (i.e. crazy straighlines, any type of hucking, billygoating) 'til next season, but that's fine. My skills are rusty anyway from a winter off and my head has to find it's way back...but for most intents and purposes, the knee isn't such an issue anymore, and soon this damned "winter" will be memory...
Skin without the brace, and put it on for skiing.
i dont have any issues skinning with my brace.
but if i did, i dont think i would take it off, unless the skin track was super mellow and had no areas of exposure where anything could take me down the mountain (icefall, rockfall, partners falling into me, undermined snowpack collapsing suddenly). lots of things can still go wrong going up where you leg is at risk.[/worrywort]
Yeah I should probably wear it while skinning....besides, it would be too much of a pain in the ass anyway taking it on and off. Maybe I'll just rig some more padding to the back strap or something.
O.K., kill this thread, the discspace is such a harassment.Can you understand your thread is interesteing to me ? That we are doing ACL since yaer only? That I can´t walk anymore properly ? That I want to know how it fels etc and don´t care if some grasshopper hopps 1 yard or 1000, his romance , schispringe as they say here, please keep posting as much about it as possible.I am interested not in the ten-aidis or tän-nointies or whatever comes after them - the tenhundreds probably ? If since I was skiing 15 years ago when I had peace in an alpendorff till today this mad fighting spirit had not broken out that made people so aggressious I am now waiting for an operation.What medications did you take ?
I have Chondroitin, Saponin was considered, homoepathic stuff, calciumpowder, glucosamin ... some more arginin and other growth hormon excitators, MSM ...
Ummmmm.....
I've been taking a Glucosamine/Chondroitin/MSM combo product 3x a day since I was diagnosed and all through rehab. Other than that, just Ibuprofen if I worked it too hard.
And I know it would be hot when you're skinning, but like long running tights or something might help with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces
i used a soft brace often when i would stress it bauernfeind but i thought up my injury came from the "stylisch" not wearing jet pants that keep the knee compressed so it stays a little more stable so i bought some odlo like tights to compress the knee and stabilise knee leg while stressing it
harvard seems to be working on growing them that is better than allo or auto type in anterior cruciate ligament harvard main page search then around the top
In 91' had my left ACL done, and it was like butchery. Morphed up for a week in the hospital. Hardcore physio though and it's still pretty solid. Managed to tear the right in 02', and the procedure was way better. Recovery time was like cut in half. I think I skiied on it too quickly though, and had some setbacks. Bike, bike, bike. The best thing for it I found. Stationary at first with not too much tension, then out on the road. Just try not to giv'r on the trails too quickly. I thought I F'd it up again (flat landings anyone?) and had an MRI done last fall. No new tears, and the new lig. is still there, just suffering from the original trauma. They used part of my patellar lig. to fix my left, but I don't even know what they used this last time. Could I have part of a dead guy in me? Sick. :eek:
Forgot to add this pic...
This is what my leg looked like after I pulled my brace off from skiing for the first time since surgery. 4.5 months post op. Looks worse than it was. The bruising color was just dye from the brace straps...and my leg looked normal by the time I got home.
Needless to say I don't crank the brace down like this anymore, and it doesn't come out like this anymore :redface:
Did it swell at all?
From the looks of my shin in that pic it looks like it did, but it really didn't....if it did, it didn't last very long at all. No swelling issues at all any of the other times I've gone as well.
Well then, you are back! :yourock:
OK...I'm ending this short of 6 months. Here's the 5.5 month post-op report:
My lines on Nov 16th '04:
http://www.tetongravity.com/usergall...rpics/acl5.jpg
My line on April 29th '05 (this photo isn't mine, but I just found it on biglines and drew my line in)...the climb up was more of a challenge than the descent by far. Me, slim, skier666, telenater, & Geoff Small hiked up along the lookers left ridge and it was a hell of a rocky scramble on the ridgelines. If it weren't for slim and smally helping me out with pole assists to get me over some rocky cruxes that I couldn't get my knee over, I wouldn't have made it. Then at the top before dropping in I was like, "WTF am I doing here? I haven't skied anything significant in nearly 6 months.". But following the tracks of 666, slim, and Smally helped with confidence and it felt so damn good descending. Snow was boot deep mid-winter pow. Kinda sloughy but well-bonded. I wasn't able to completely rip it like I wanted, but just a few months earlier, I didn't even think I'd be skiing til next year. so I'll take it. Thanks again guys for the help and motivation on the climb up...wouldn't have made it to the top without 'cha.
So stoked for you, and inspried by you bro...your recovery keeps me motivated.
Thanks. Now go buy that Madone ;)
I don't know... you look pretty stoked with how it went.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Shoelaces
Kick Ass!
Gimp Central Futbol Club represent! Returned to the indoor pitch tonight and scored a goal in my first 2 minutes! Sooooooo stokedd!!!! Finished off with an assist as well. But ddaaaammmmmnnn am I far from "match" shape. Luckily we had a lot of subs :) Wore my brace and my knee felt fine...feels fine now afterwards. One scary moment when I thought a big collision with the keeper was coming on but I hurdled him and landed ok. And I'm very very slow in a general "game play" sense...I'm just not thinking ahead a move or two like I used too...I'm just more reacting to what happens around me...oh well, that'll come back. So stoked to be back!!! :yourock: