Wasatch Conditions 10-11

Sure does feel good to get back out in the powdah!

http://www.zachclantonphotography.co...-1-for-web.jpg
Tony Pavlantos on some mini golf lines today. Lots of trailbreaking for lots of shredding. Reached some pretty high speeds in ski mode too... always very scary

No instabilities noted, but I did find plenty of ground facets around vegetation... lets hope it keeps hammering down!

Here's some shots from our first turns on 10.26

http://www.zachclantonphotography.co...-2-for-web.jpg
The struggle.

http://www.zachclantonphotography.co...Main-Baldy.jpg
Photo: Andrew Miller

http://www.zachclantonphotography.co...-3-for-web.jpg
And ofcourse, sunrise in the clouds. It would get so deep at times, we had to resort to mixed rock and ice climbing on the couly walls to get around the bottomless pits.

http://www.zachclantonphotography.co...-4-for-web.jpg
Other times, we... uhhh... got stuck. We couldnt help but laugh the whole way up. We thought about taking the shoulder but didn't want to drop in on a big ol pile o rocks. Little did we know...

http://www.zachclantonphotography.co...-5-for-web.jpg
First line of the season! Coulda sworn in was mid winter!

http://www.zachclantonphotography.co...-1-for-web.jpg

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Originally Posted by Lone Star

some serious lack of perspective with a comment like that. were you in a different Wasatch or does your attitude just suck?

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Despite the ok spring, most old timer locals consider last year one of the worst in memory. You just haven't been here long enough. The only positive thing that I can say about last year is that we were really, really lucky more people didn't die.

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Originally Posted by TeleThor

I think some of you missed the point. The point wasn't October snow vs. cumulative snow during the season. Remember the avy cycles last season?

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DING DING DING DING DING!!!

We have a winner!!!

Congrats to Telethor for seeing the big picture.
There is more to a season than a series of storm totals.

October snow, while relatively common is never a good thing.

Props to all you who got after it right away. Hope you had fun. It may be the last reasonably safe skiing to be had for quite a while. Lets hope not.

zach man, you need verts. they help, a lot. Sick shots you guys put together.

as far as october storms, its pointless to speculate about future snowpack. Nobody can guarantee the weather right? Just remember what's there and what happens to it as time goes on. high pressure next week, not a good start.

Yea Ian, I used some today for the first time and they were definitely a game changer! I would've honestly been stoked to not see snow till december and keep on climbin, but if it snows, i'm there. We'll see what happens right?

Go with the flow and quit worrying about it. Most every year in the Wasatch gets REALLY good at some point.

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Originally Posted by Trackhead

Go with the flow and quit worrying about it. Most every year in the Wasatch gets REALLY good at some point.

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word. QFT.

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Originally Posted by PROVO

zach man, you need verts. they help, a lot. Sick shots you guys put together.

as far as october storms, its pointless to speculate about future snowpack. Nobody can guarantee the weather right? Just remember what's there and what happens to it as time goes on. high pressure next week, not a good start.

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you know anything about the local dudes who redesigned the verts with a better binding system and some other improvements? started a thread on em but never heard anything, they were at the BD swap last weekend.

Just got a pair of verts last week. Stoked!!!!!

where'd you find em steve?

I can't wait to move back for the season... 42 days and counting for me. Thanks for posting the early season stoke.

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Originally Posted by ectreeskier11

where'd you find em steve?

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I actually had a friend find them at a swap. He knew I was looking for them.

i know this is a jong tech question. but, what are Verts?
and ayuh, holy shit! it looks so good out there. keep the eye candy rolling:yourock:

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Originally Posted by TheMessenger

Despite the ok spring, most old timer locals consider last year one of the worst in memory. You just haven't been here long enough. The only positive thing that I can say about last year is that we were really, really lucky more people didn't die.

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correct me if I'm wrong--- wasn't it the early/mid-season crazzzzyyyyy surface hoar that made the second half of the winter months so sketch?

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Originally Posted by Lone Star

correct me if I'm wrong--- wasn't it the early/mid-season crazzzzyyyyy surface hoar that made the second half of the winter months so sketch?

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pretty sure that's the layer that slid on me.

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Originally Posted by ectreeskier11

pretty sure that's the layer that slid on me.

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Mine as well. Feb 16 surface hoar, buried and still reactive in early March in W. Uintas. Read somewhere (will need to find it) that buried surface hoar accounts for most accidents up in BC.

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Originally Posted by Ermine

Mine as well. Feb 16 surface hoar, buried and still reactive in early March in W. Uintas. Read somewhere (will need to find it) that buried surface hoar accounts for most accidents up in BC.

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surface hoar's primarily a maritime issue, that's why last year was so anomalous. usually when it's clear and calm here it's so dry that there's not enough moisture in the air to form surface hoar, while it's obviously abundant in coastal ranges. correct me if i'm wrong but that's my understanding.

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Originally Posted by ectreeskier11

surface hoar's primarily a maritime issue,

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http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/s...hore_mouth.jpg

this thread is devolving so fast... when's it gonna snow again?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ectreeskier11

surface hoar's primarily a maritime issue, that's why last year was so anomalous. usually when it's clear and calm here it's so dry that there's not enough moisture in the air to form surface hoar, while it's obviously abundant in coastal ranges. correct me if i'm wrong but that's my understanding.

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Makes sense to me. And some years there is considerable overlap between the regions (Maritime, intermountain, continental). I'm sure one of the pro avy dudes/chicas can chime in.

I think it also helps that many N. Utah storms come in warm, wet and windy. Sun and wind help destroy surface hoar. Warm snow helps bonding. It's those dark, hidden, wind protected N. facing open slopes that can keep the surface hoar there when a new storm comes in. Tree run right next to a slope like this might not have the buried surface hoar....pockety.

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Originally Posted by otter

Just got a pair of verts last week. Stoked!!!!!

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bwa :biggrin:

By analyzing local meteorological data, we confirm that low to moderate wind speed, humid air, and clear-sky nights are the necessary ingredients for the occurrence of significant vapor fluxes toward the surface and thus for the growth of surface hoar.

From a swiss article...whose url I just deleted.

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Originally Posted by lionelhutz

By analyzing local meteorological data, we confirm that low to moderate wind speed, humid air, and clear-sky nights are the necessary ingredients for the occurrence of significant vapor fluxes toward the surface and thus for the growth of surface hoar.

From a swiss article...whose url I just deleted.

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i stayed at a holiday inn express last night :tongue:. no actually i just finished reading "staying alive..." which was something I should have done before last winter. the surface hoar thing just makes sense though and i remember talking about it during avy last year. anyone taking avy 2 this year?

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Originally Posted by buttahflake

what are Verts?

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Verts are for climbing directly up anything that is too steep or deep to skin. very effective little snowshoes for going up chutes and whatnot.

http://ianprovo.smugmug.com/photos/7...19_S2A35-L.jpg

WTF didn't I think'a THAT!!!:yourock:

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Originally Posted by PROVO

Verts are for climbing directly up anything that is too steep or deep to skin. very effective little snowshoes for going up chutes and whatnot.

http://ianprovo.smugmug.com/photos/7...19_S2A35-L.jpg

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oh shit, those make total sense. thanks for sharing. they look wicked easy to stow away in a pack. good stuff.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PROVO

Verts are for climbing directly up anything that is too steep or deep to skin. very effective little snowshoes for going up chutes and whatnot.

http://ianprovo.smugmug.com/photos/7...19_S2A35-L.jpg

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nice snowlerblades!!

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Originally Posted by ectreeskier11

surface hoar's primarily a maritime issue, that's why last year was so anomalous. usually when it's clear and calm here it's so dry that there's not enough moisture in the air to form surface hoar, while it's obviously abundant in coastal ranges. correct me if i'm wrong but that's my understanding.

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Surface hoar forms when there is a temperture gradient between the snow and the air. Snow warms in the sun during the day, gets moist, it get cold and clear and then that moisture moves to the surface to create the hoar frost. In other words, Utah is a great climate for surface hoar, you see it form during most periods of high pressure.

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Originally Posted by zion zig zag

Surface hoar forms when there is a temperture gradient between the snow and the air. Snow warms in the sun during the day, gets moist, it get cold and clear and then that moisture moves to the surface to create the hoar frost. In other words, Utah is a great climate for surface hoar, you see it form during most periods of high pressure.

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That's what we call surface hoar around here, and I always thought it was surface hoar, but then I remember some sort of event with moist air last year that the UAC was referring to as surface hoar (or maybe they called it hoar frost). It was nasty and persistent. I can't remember the exact cause, but I do remember hearing that it was more common in maritime climates. I think that the stuff we call surface hoar is really more properly referred to as faceted snow.
Anyway, your both right, or wrong. Whatever.

having toured a ton in the wasatch and the high peaks of nh (maritime), i must say that i've skied epic surface hoar in utah and none i can think of in nh.

when the weather goes high n dry for weeks at a time with clear cold nights the wasatch gets deeper and deeper with it. i swear some of my best touring days in utah have been 2 weeks into a high pressure when most folks got fed up and lost interest and the hoar just got deeper and deeper.

up high in nh, we tend to get so many small snow/wind events that we don't ever really grow the stuff.

mmmmmmmm flaky potatoe chip skiing, mmmmmmmmmm.

rog

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Originally Posted by icelanticskier

having toured a ton in the wasatch and the high peaks of nh (maritime), i must say that i've skied epic surface hoar in utah and none i can think of in nh.

when the weather goes high n dry for weeks at a time with clear cold nights the wasatch gets deeper and deeper with it. i swear some of my best touring days in utah have been 2 weeks into a high pressure when most folks got fed up and lost interest and the hoar just got deeper and deeper.

up high in nh, we tend to get so many small snow/wind events that we don't ever really grow the stuff.

mmmmmmmm flaky potatoe chip skiing, mmmmmmmmmm.

rog

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your posts continue to confound me

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Originally Posted by ectreeskier11

your posts continue to confound me

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Made sense to me. Re-read the blurb on the UAC site regarding surface hoar (dictionary of terms), I think you may be confusing the fact that they stated surface hoar accounts for most accidents in the PNW with where/how/why it forms.

mostly was just the NH=maritime statement. i mean sure, it's close to the ocean but... maritime climate regarding snow safety is pretty damn opposite of the NH climate

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zion zig zag

Made sense to me. Re-read the blurb on the UAC site regarding surface hoar (dictionary of terms), I think you may be confusing the fact that they stated surface hoar accounts for most accidents in the PNW with where/how/why it forms.

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Me too. Skiing the loud "hoar" is fun as hell.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ectreeskier11

mostly was just the NH=maritime statement. i mean sure, it's close to the ocean but... maritime climate regarding snow safety is pretty damn opposite of the NH climate

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nope.

rog

Ok, just to clear things up

The most common types of avalanche instability-

Martime Snowpack- new snow instability
Continental Snowpack- persistent weak layer(suface/hoar frost, facets etc.)

The Wasatch is usually somewhere in the middle of these two depending on the year.

Lest you continue to spread your ignorance, take an avalanche class, before you get yourself or someone else killed in the backcountry.

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Originally Posted by TheMessenger

Lest you continue to spread your ignorance, take an avalanche class, before you get yourself or someone else killed in the backcountry.

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For the sake of argument, "taking an avalanche class" doesn't necessarily make one any less likely to get waxed in a slide. In many cases, it may actually lead to a false sense of awareness and an increase likelihood of getting waxed.

Right, people should just go out with no knowledge or any idea what they are doing. Great idea!

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Originally Posted by Trackhead

For the sake of argument, "taking an avalanche class" doesn't necessarily make one any less likely to get waxed in a slide. In many cases, it may actually lead to a false sense of awareness and an increase likelihood of getting waxed.

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getting out there often with a trusted conservative snow vet is crucial to learning about snow. learn safe travel techniques, features, traps, keeping slope angles low, and learning to stay out of the way from looming hangfire and flying hippies above you is some important stuff.

books are good for reading, snow is just as good for reading and better for sliding on. best way to learn snow is to get out and walk in it with yer pole pokin at it and yer eyes open every day if ya can. keep angles low.

rog

Since the wasatch really is a new range for me, I want to pick a spot to dig pits and watch the pack over the coming season. I like the same vicinity/aspect so I can watch it build and morph storm by storm. Here in colorado I would pick a face that is easterly just below treeline, but I wonder about there. True north would be more likely to keep interesting layers, yes?

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Originally Posted by AltaPowderDaze

trackhead, you already thinking about the pfeiff?

shera, welcome to the cottonwood canyons.

to the op: yeah people read the threads and decide where to go but some of that is due to safety concerns (conditions). gotta take the good with the bad. so far the good outweighs the bad, imo.

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Thank you. I'm starting to walk around here and get my legs. Lazy summer but I hope to be pretty strong by the time I get there.