Relative Safety of Cat vs. Heli?

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Originally Posted by Hacksaw

I have a little over 9 million vertical feet of heliskiing, with approximately 8,000 hours of flying.

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I'll try some maths here based on a typical 7 day package heliski week with a guest reaching their guaranteed 100 000 vertical feet flying in an a star b2 helicopter. No clue how this compares to flying in the koalas, 407's, B3's, 204.5, 205, 206, 212, 412, etc....
average heliski week 7 day package = 100 000 vert feet
average flight time for 7 day package approx 21 hours for an a star b2 helicopter

100 000 x 10 = 1 000 000 vertical feet of skiing
21 x 10 = 210 hours of flight time

9 000 000 vertical feet of heliskiing = approx 1890 hours of flight time for an a star b2

I think i'm being generous with the flight time, i recall many days of 30 000 vert feet totaling less than 3 hours of flight time if we were skiing in zones closer to the lodge

Some of my flight hours have come without getting any vert skied. I can't speak for Hacksaw, but I've even flown in the summer.

Well, it felt like flying, at least.

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Originally Posted by mcski

Big heli numbers and big money if he’s a client! He did somethin right!

I remember meeting a guy that owns a fairly famous waterside restaurant (don’t remember the restaurant name but any Seattle peeps would know it) in Seattle years ago in Valdez. Super nice guy and the only one I’ve met that has heli trips anywhere near resembling those hours. I recall he was trying to launch a heli skiing website, don’t know if that ever got traction tho

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Salty's?

That Sunday brunch buffet is all time.

Back on track, 9 mil. vert is nothing to sneeze at. "Hi, my name is Hacksaw and I am a Heliholic".

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Originally Posted by Dantheman;[emoji[emoji6[emoji640

[emoji638]][emoji640][emoji639]][emoji638][emoji637][emoji638][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]]Salty's?

That Sunday brunch buffet is all time.

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I don’t think so. I found his name based on a post above and Vons was one of apparently just many that he owned. Should have stayed in touch w that guy lol

Back on track: what’s a molasses purist?


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Originally Posted by rod9301

The biggest avie risk is where you'll be skiing. Continental climate, like Canada, risky or you ski low angle.

Maritime, like coastal Alaska, safer.
But you have to understand that heli skiing operations, even if they know there's a weak buried layer, they still have to fly. Wich i think it's the biggest risk.

When i go bc skiing, i know the snow pack intimately and if there's a buried weak layer,i don't go.

If on the other hand, you hired a guide for a weekend, 4 weeks ahead, you and the guide will go, because you planned it.
Much higher risk.

Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk

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So much truth here. This also applies to traveling to a new location to ski. You’ve been planning the trip and the objectives for a while. All that can really cloud decision making in the moment.

There's a huge financial incentive for operators to go, regardless of conditions.

4 caught, 2 dead, helicopter hit by slide, Norway
https://snowbrains.com/avalanche-in-...ng-2-brothers/

Holy shit, thats terrible. The crown on that was huge. RIP guys.

Terrible story out of Norway.
With respect to the pressures faced by heli ski companies, I’ve sat in on guide meetings and presentations at (the old) Mike Wiegele’s, and they would present tonnes of footage of skiers in blower pow in low angle slopes, well anchored timbered terrain and no overhead hazards when the conditions are sketch. Sure some clients might be miffed on not getting into the steeps, but the company wasn’t going to risk guides and birds when they have oodles of safe terrain to use when the conditions warranted it. Very little experience with other outfits, but I would have thought that was the norm rather than the exception.

3 dead, 1 injured yesterday out of Kaslo. RIP
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...aslo-1.7492840

From the CBC story "The avalanche struck just before 1 p.m. on March 24 in the Clute Creek watershed, east of Kootenay Lake. Two groups of skiers had finished their run and were waiting below the tree line when a helicopter pilot spotted the slide and sounded a siren. One group managed to escape. [COLOR=#080809][FONT="] The second group of four was swept away into the trees. Rescue teams recovered three bodies: the Whistler man, a 45-year-old from Idaho, and a 53-year-old guide from Kaslo. A 40-year-old man from Nelson was found critically injured. [FONT=inherit] Clute Creek below - picture may not load. It's east of Kaslo. Stellar operates in that tenure iirc

^^ Yes, I think youre right. Also, story says Kaslo on the east side of the lake, its on the west side, Clute Lake on the east. Terrible. RIP guys.

Pics of people under the crown always freaks me out. Generally you can't see the amount of hang fire above and assuming it's minimal, but still not my cup of tea.

I don't really think there's any question that heli skiing is way more dangerous, simply because helicopters are fucking sketch to begin with. Some of the LZ dropoffs we did in AK were scary as fuck - those pilots are amazing at nosing the bird into the snow to stabilize.

WRT original thread topic...Generally speaking, cats have much fewer terrain and aspect options than a heli. However, because of the aforementioned, operators often have more intimate knowledge of terrain, snowpack, and recent weather. Helis on the other hand offer many more terrain options most of the time. However, extrapolation of snowpack observations can be trickier across larger distances.



:)

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Originally Posted by Mofro261

I never once had a trip where we didnt do transeiver practice prior to loading to start a trip.

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The adequacy of that practice might vary a lot though. My one heli experience did a pretty through job with the beacon/probe practice. Had to learn the basics of how to do it right, they wanted to see everyone do their own full searches, etc. Resembled a speedy version of how they did it in my Avvy 1 course.

I had a cat day where the practice session was...very bad. Just tossed a beacon 6 inches below the surface of the edge of the cat track and then had the entire group go and "find" it together. No tail guide (said that was standard practice with 6 guests). Only one pack with shovel/probe for the whole group (and nobody besides me brought their own)...take turns having the last person down wear the pack. Hope the people behind you are paying attention, because the guide definitely can't see anything once he goes through the trees.

Almost made me glad the group had some weak geezers and they didn't take us close to anything risky...

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Originally Posted by singlesline

I had a cat day where the practice session was...very bad. Just tossed a beacon 6 inches below the surface of the edge of the cat track and then had the entire group go and "find" it together. No tail guide (said that was standard practice with 6 guests). Only one pack with shovel/probe for the whole group (and nobody besides me brought their own)...take turns having the last person down wear the pack. Hope the people behind you are paying attention, because the guide definitely can't see anything once he goes through the trees.

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That's wild.

Hacksaw, what did 9M vertical cost ? At $10k a week that’d be pushing $750K

I have heli-skied once w/ CMH and it was an eyeopener for sure. Great powder, lodge and food. Agree, the whole heli scene is just too rushed, the other guests were focused on maximum vertical and it was just go, go, go. We had variable conditions w/ rapidly changing temps and fog. One day it was powder up top and cement at the bottom so it was challenging as there is no option to bail onto a groomer when the snow sucks. I saw several avalanches and had the snow shooting cracks under me on a couple low angle slopes. Also watched as the heli intentionally set off an avalanche by hovering right over the ridge top above a slope we would ski.

One scary part was when we were in the heli following a stream/river in a heavily wooded valley in fog; all of the sudden the pilot just dove to the ground and landed in the stream. He then told us that he could feel the blades were icing up so we sat in the river for like 10 mins as he ran the blades as fast as he could to melt the ice. I guess fog is no bueno for more than just visibility issues...

Nuck, I have never kept track of how much I have spent on heliskiing. But, it must be more than $750K when you add in the bar tab.

I already know the answer.... But, it was worth every penny/

Wow. Pricey hobby!! But I’m sure it’s something special.