Where should I do my Europe camp?

:biggrin:

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edit for the rest: i must say that cham is sorta played. everyone goes there and the town is more of an english pub than anything and the hunt for fresh is annoyingly competitive. la grave is not THAT bad.

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man, you haven't even skied it :D (speaking of cham) . and you were there for like what, 3 hours? of course there are operations running in la grave and chamonix. but they are not with gordy AND they aren't organized from overseas. (accept for coombs?) If I were american and coming over the big pond to be skiing in the alps, I'ld like to get to know those resorts. plus, in those two resorts most people are extremely limited without guides. whereas engelberg and verbier you can explore for the most part on your own.

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Originally Posted by greg

actually

but seriously, st8line. if you had the connections to rent mont gelé for a week, go for it. that would be killer..

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rent a mountain. even if it wasn't mont gele that would sound cool :D

Was trying to post further images of Pic du Midi (as mentioned by Jonski) but they didn't work... anyway some of the skiable lines are on here:

http://www.pic-du-midi-guides.com/topos.html

Ditto for Cham/Argentiere. I don't care what anyone says it's a fking awesome place. I was there for 7 weeks last season and barely scratched the surface of what's possible there. Plus there's the Tom hookup, it's close to Geneva and it's easy to hit up other places (G3000, verb etc.).

....but truthfully I'm not all that bothered where it is, just where to sign up!

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Originally Posted by comish

The couple years I spent over there I dug and dug for stats and info on snowfall amounts and consistency. St. Anton, Engleberg, and Andermatt win in this regard.

Spent a week in St. Anton every year for the last 4 and have had at least thigh deep every year! The Rodelbahn there is very fun but very dangerous :D Search for pictures of my trip from last year.

Oburgurgl is largely flat and while snow sure because of the elevation, doesn't actually recieve that much snowfall. Yes there is good touring, but the verts a little small and there just isn't much steep around there. If you think Zermatt doesn't have anything steep then Oburgurgl definitely doesn't have anything steep.

The town of Andermatt kinda blows. People weren't particularly friendly (wife speaks German so it wasn't an American thing), expensive, food very marginal, and just not fun. Fun medium size mountain with lots of snow. don't be there on a weekend as the crowds from Zurich were a bit rough.

La Grave/Serre Che while having absolutely amazing terrain, really cool glaciated routes, awesome vert, has unreliable snow. Alagna is all that and more inreliable in the snow realm. If you hit it with good snow its fricken insane, but the probabilities when traveling that far aren't in your favor.

I would go with St. Anton or Engleberg. Literally the only thing you miss out on in St. Anton is glaciated terrain with huge vert. Engleberg has that, but probably not quite as fun a village/vibe without the Mooserwirt/Kangaroo, Tirolean vibe.

Verbier is definitely on the dry side and very expensive. good terrain though.

Champery is way too low. Went there 3 times. Once was great, once was raining, and once was green grass. We kept moving East on that final trip. Verbier was hard pack and ice, and Zermatt was soft fluffy 6inches of fresh. But altitute matters in the alps so I wouldn't fly over from the states for Portes du Soleil because you never know if it will rain.

Sounds like good fun. Damn I love the Alps. This will be the first year in the last 5 I won't get over there. :frown:

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Lots of good stuff in these last 20 or so posts. Thanks!

I like your thinking Comish. My top 3 right now in no order are:

Engelberg/Andermatt
St. Anton/Lech/Zurs
Serre Chev/La Grave

Also still in the running are Cham/Argentiere and the whole Davos/Engadin Valley zone.

My dates are limited to either the last week of January or the 3rd week of February because of Alaska camps in March.

When exactly are the school vacations in France, Switzerland, and Austria?

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Originally Posted by str8line

My dates are limited to either the last week of January or the 3rd week of February because of Alaska camps in March.

When exactly are the school vacations in France, Switzerland, and Austria?

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They are staggered through February. Go at the end of January!

str8line, could you please direct me to some information about this camp?

I'd search it but what do I search for, str8line camp??

Last year the French school holidays were staggered from 5th Feb until 6th March.
The Italian ones were 12th-20th Feb.

Next year, I think it's 11th Feb that the French ones start.

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Originally Posted by horizon

str8line, could you please direct me to some information about this camp?

I'd search it but what do I search for, str8line camp??

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Well, my site is:

http://straightlineadventures.com

But there isn't any specific information about the Europe camp yet. Although it will have the same basic formula as the other camps.

you got me all stoked with your eurocampplans, so I did a quick google for you.

these are the exact school vacations in Germany (deutschland), österreich (austria), schweiz (switzerland) and the niederlande (netherlands) for 2006 (in dd.mm - dd.mm): http://www.familotel.de/service.php

that's for 2006 in france in:
[dd-mm-yy]
till
[dd-mm-yy]

http://www.education.gouv.fr/prat/ca...lendrier.php#2

I hope you'll be able to read those charts..

edit: oohh, ehm, to sum it up:

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Originally Posted by WTFH

They are staggered through February. Go at the end of January!

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he is right! :D

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Originally Posted by greg

you got me all stoked with your eurocampplans, so I did a quick google for you.

these are the exact school vacations in Germany (deutschland), österreich (austria), schweiz (switzerland) and the niederlande (netherlands) for 2006 (in dd.mm - dd.mm): http://www.familotel.de/service.php

that's for 2006 in france in:
[dd-mm-yy]
till
[dd-mm-yy]

http://www.education.gouv.fr/prat/ca...lendrier.php#2

I hope you'll be able to read those charts..



he is right! :D

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Thank's Greg. That gives me a good idea of when to schedule in Switzerland vs. France vs. Austria.

I wish I had the extra $'s to throw at something like this. on a different angle... any chance in the future of a purely backcountry/touring oriented camp that focusses on how to safely access/ski the bc poop? theres a sled operation on the pemberton ice cap (http://www.totallyawesomeadventures.com/index.html) that could be a sweet stepping off point to ski amazing terrain (as you know Im sure). just a thought.

yurp school holidays gravitate in the winter around carnival, which is dictated by easter, which is dictated by when there's full moon...
2006 mardi gras (end of carnival for most of europe, milan and southern switzerland being the only exception because of a 17th century pestilence) will be the last day of febraury. Thus, the big mess will be in the second half of february

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Originally Posted by greg

whenever I skied verbier, I was pissed about the three trams with three liftlines connecting siviez and mont fort

I really like verbier, 61, but not for guided skiing. there's not much terrain I'ld consider a guide appropriate for (accept for exclusive mont gele rides) and if the taxometer is running I hate standing in liftlines.

but seriously, st8line. if you had the connections to rent mont gelé for a week, go for it. that would be killer..

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OK, let's make this way... I'll be very happy if you stay on line to go to the mont fort, so you don't track attelas couloirs (much more narrow and vert than anything on mt fort), col de creblet, vallon d'arbi, stairway to heaven, louettes econdues, bec des etanges, bec de rosses, col du momin, rosablanche, glacier du grand desert, glacier du mont calme, greppon blanc, plan de fou, l'etheygeon, le marlenaz....... ;)

agreed, last week of jan should be best!

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Originally Posted by verbier61

... so you don't track attelas couloirs (much more narrow and vert than anything on mt fort), col de creblet, vallon d'arbi, stairway to heaven, louettes econdues, bec des etanges, bec de rosses, col du momin, rosablanche, glacier du grand desert, glacier du mont calme, greppon blanc, plan de fou, l'etheygeon, le marlenaz....... ;)

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V61, mon ami. Will this be the season to finally show me the goods?

if les alpes vaudoises are dire (and, they were not last season), then i will be trippin' down to your 'hood. skins and all! :D

Last week of January would be the primo pick as regards timing. You'll have no school holidays and that means less queues and more affordable accommodation wherever you end up.

As regards vehicles, why not approach one of the major manufacturers and try to attract sponsorship? A car like the Audi Q7 SUV would be being launched at around this time, so if you could secure two of these vehicles and ensure a write up in Audi's in-house magazine or something (Audi are very good with snow sports sponsorship in Europe) that could be one way around the logistics issue.

Naturally location depends very much on solving these sorts of problems. If I had to be based in one place, I would definitely aim for France as it will help to keep costs in check. Austria and particularly Switzerland will work out considerably more expensive bases to work from.

The two biggies are La Grave and Chamonix. The downside of this is that everybody knows these areas and as a result there is plenty of competition from other camps/experiences. That said, the skiing at these two areas is absolutely bloody astonishing and is unlike anything in the lower 48. I think the Tarentaise region is being unfairly overlooked here. Yes, there are the moon stations and huge networks of pistes but people tend to forget that resorts like La Plagne, Les Arcs, Courchevel, Val d'Isere and Tignes have off-piste that's world class and plenty of local knowledge is available to help with guiding. Face Nord du Bellecote at La Plagne is real fun. Basing out of Bourg St Maurice or Moutiers would give easy access to many of these areas as well as St Foy and the heli possibilities out of La Thuile.

I'd personally stick with La Grave. Your camp's offering is sufficiently differentiated to not tread on Doug Coombs' toes, majoring as it does on instruction. It's possible to lap the top 1500m of vert between 3400m and 1900m if snow is thin in the valley which is still nearly three Silvertons piled one on top of each other. Guiding shouldn't be an insurmountable issue there, accommodation costs are manageable and the whole vibe of the place is attuned to the ethos of Str8line Adventures. Get people there and they won't want to leave. Get people there on a powder day and repeat business isn't going to be hard to come by.

Also chiming in late:

Zermatt is well worth the look. It rises to almost 4000m.
And it is a true Euro/Swiss experience. Plus, you got Cervina/Italian side.
I always enjoy Zermatt, some aspect of it!

Verbier = no. Way too many people already, and way too expensive.
Sorry Verbier61, until you invite me up to sleep over, I'll commute. :)
But, the place is still one of my favorite for it's excellent lifts and vertical terrain.
I simply hope for weekday dump & shine.
(ok, I confess, the place is full of babes too.)

And finally, always unmentioned:
G3, aka Glacier3000, aka Les Diablerets Glacier at Col du Pillon.
I won't go on about it because every TR with me in it shows the place,
an empty parking lot, and 2 or 3 other people
grinning like idiots at our home court gem.

Not sure what you are looking for exactly. Not sure what your camp is.
But, I teach Wednesdays, thus I am free the rest of my life.
Let me know if you need someone on this side to help coordinate things.
And Cell Block A is available if you need a place to crash.

Edit = Go G3!
I just checked your site, and you are looking for technical descents.
I suggest the North Face from the top back to the Col du Pillon.
2980m - 1450m.
The good news is, when the place is closed,
those 2 lifts which access the top, are usually open.
There are ridiculous lines there, and people are skiing them.
And yes, I will stand by my words on this.
Base out of Leysin, a town with 60+ nationalities, and The Yeti (beer & burgers).

Roo, is Austria more expensive than France? I always felt it was the other way round, in terms of food and lift prices - not sure about accommodation. But I never really compared the two properly.

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Originally Posted by TeleAl

Sorry Verbier61, until you invite me up to sleep over, I'll commute. :)
But, the place is still one of my favorite for it's excellent lifts and vertical terrain.

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I am currently working to fix 3 more beds in the apt. It will be the cheapest place to stay in Verb, guaranteed. Vaud wine accepted for payment :rolleyes: with a preference for the rouge

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Originally Posted by verbier61

I am currently working to fix 3 more beds in the apt. It will be the cheapest place to stay in Verb, guaranteed. Vaud wine accepted for payment :rolleyes: with a preference for the rouge

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I like the Montreux red. Very tasty!
Anything else from this area must be white (Aigle or Yvorne).
See you this winter.
And not sure you know, but there is snow on the Dents du Midi. :D

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Originally Posted by verbier61

I am currently working to fix 3 more beds in the apt. It will be the cheapest place to stay in Verb, guaranteed. Vaud wine accepted for payment :rolleyes: with a preference for the rouge

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Verb, you have to be carefull with your invitations...or you might get a scandi visit there soon. :)

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Originally Posted by horizon

Roo, is Austria more expensive than France? I always felt it was the other way round, in terms of food and lift prices - not sure about accommodation. But I never really compared the two properly.

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Austrian accommodation is more expensive - but with a qualifier. In France, almsost everybody stays in apartments and eats out. In Austria it's usually more of a traditional hotel/gasthaus sort of deal that works out more expensive and restricts choice. "Set menu, please."

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Originally Posted by verbier61

OK, let's make this way... I'll be very happy if you stay on line to go to the mont fort, so you don't track attelas couloirs (much more narrow and vert than anything on mt fort), col de creblet, vallon d'arbi, stairway to heaven, louettes econdues, bec des etanges, bec de rosses, col du momin, rosablanche, glacier du grand desert, glacier du mont calme, greppon blanc, plan de fou, l'etheygeon, le marlenaz....... ;)

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Ok, you win - I mean, verbier wins over lagrave/cham. ;) I didn´t say skiing sucks at verbier, I just said that there are places, that might suit a camp better. but you can't seriously compare les attelas with no matter which face of mont fort. (I'm not speaking of the backside) and you can't argue climbing bec de rosses or rosablache is a good option to get some vert. and where are the steeps in vallons d'abris and gl. des l.econdouè... mont fort offers still the best lift accessed terrain of verbier. (except for m. gele) that's why I was refering to it.

I didn't ski verbier so often because I don't like it, I think it's awesome. but I personally think there are better locations for a camp.

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Originally Posted by bad_roo

The two biggies are La Grave and Chamonix. The downside of this is that everybody knows these areas and as a result there is plenty of competition from other camps/experiences. That said, the skiing at these two areas is absolutely bloody astonishing and is unlike anything in the lower 48. I think the Tarentaise region is being unfairly overlooked here. Yes, there are the moon stations and huge networks of pistes but people tend to forget that resorts like La Plagne, Les Arcs, Courchevel, Val d'Isere and Tignes have off-piste that's world class and plenty of local knowledge is available to help with guiding. Face Nord du Bellecote at La Plagne is real fun. Basing out of Bourg St Maurice or Moutiers would give easy access to many of these areas as well as St Foy and the heli possibilities out of La Thuile.

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that is a very good point. if you could life with the total lack of spirit, those resorts would probably offer the highest potential of pretty much unskied and spectacular terrain. and you should know that just the next valley or village where you might come out after your decent could be just as original as it could be. (just as it is in the les deux alpes - la grave region)

Str8,

I should add Murren to that list. And Grindelwald is next door.
The Eiger is staring at you.

I've skied Murren only.

There is some steep stuff there to be had,
some mountain goat type of stuff too.