2 fatalities north of Silverton - Battleship

Yeah, their approach is not indicative of "highly experienced backcountry skiers" for this tour. The standard route up the Battleship is to ski down from the Ophir pass parking area towards the power transfer station, veer off towards the creek, cross it and then begin skinning up the skin track that ascends up through dense timber on the northeast area of Battleship.
Last season I skied off the Battleship on various aspects roughly 15-20 times. I exclusively tour these days in the Red Mountain Pass area. I'm by no means, an expert of that area. There are folks I know who ski that zone all the time. I've never heard of or seen people dropping into that shot they were ascending from the top, or skinning it from the bottom. Its simply too exposed from above -with tons of hang fire from below. The times I've skied off the west/northwest side of Battleship (the side opposite why 550), I've gone off either straight north nose-skiing dense timber, or I've eased in near tree-line on the west side- skier's right.

I have ascended up the west side before on the far skinner's left through dense timber-emerging just below the main summit approach ridge on a protected nob. I've never considered skinning up the gut of the west/northwest bowl- even in relatively stable conditions- simply too risky and really, nowhere to run if something lets loose.

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Originally Posted by goldenboy

For those of you who ski this area more often, I don't get it- is it standard to skin right up the gut and then stop 2/3rds (or whatever) of the way up, before it gets steeper? Therefore skiing lower angled terrain (which is of course connected to steeper terrain)? There are a couple of sort of similar tours here where people ski the flatter runout of large paths, except most of the skintrack is in deep timber, so at least the "safe ski" is fairly limited in time exposure.

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Originally Posted by goldenboy

For those of you who ski this area more often, I don't get it- is it standard to skin right up the gut and then stop 2/3rds (or whatever) of the way up, before it gets steeper? Therefore skiing lower angled terrain (which is of course connected to steeper terrain)? There are a couple of sort of similar tours here where people ski the flatter runout of large paths, except most of the skintrack is in deep timber, so at least the "safe ski" is fairly limited in time exposure.

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In my ski group, No. We aren't even getting near avalanche terrain currently, on it or below it. Hearing stories of remote triggers from large distances away (1000'). Thinking about alpha angles and how far away from overhead hazards we should be, etc.

It does seam like a common practice for other groups, especially early season. Those dense trees on either side of the path would be really difficult to ascend with our low snowpack. This is from a couple years back, but very similar.

https://www.avalanche.state.co.us/ca...=699&accfm=rep

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Originally Posted by durangobrad

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It does seam like a common practice for other groups, especially early season. Those dense trees on either side of the path would be really difficult to ascend with our low snowpack. This is from a couple years back, but very similar.

https://www.avalanche.state.co.us/ca...=699&accfm=rep

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Thanks to you and Bovine for the explanation. My question came up because of that other accident, and because they were skinning straight up it too.

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Originally Posted by durangobrad

In my ski group, No. We aren't even getting near avalanche terrain currently, on it or below it. Hearing stories of remote triggers from large distances away (1000'). Thinking about alpha angles and how far away from overhead hazards we should be, etc.

It does seam like a common practice for other groups, especially early season. Those dense trees on either side of the path would be really difficult to ascend with our low snowpack. This is from a couple years back, but very similar.

https://www.avalanche.state.co.us/ca...=699&accfm=rep

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I want skier 2 as my partner.

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Originally Posted by kootenayskier

Having serious shit going on in your mind (positive or negative) isn’t conducive to good decision making in the mountains.

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Thanks for that. I hear education is knowledge that changes behavior. I found that educational. Life stress growing without a day on snow ramps up the motivation to get out right at the nadir of objectivity. Recipe for mistakes (talking personally, not speculating on causes here).

Such a sad read. Knowing nothing about these guys it just kills me that they had 3 friends who rushed out in the dead of night only to find them dead--and one with a hand out of the snow. Brutal.

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Originally Posted by durangobrad

Those dense trees on either side of the path would be really difficult to ascend with our low snowpack.

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I gagged and fucking wept at that accident report

Chilling read. Thanks for posting it in full as hard as it was to read

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Originally Posted by Mudfoot

Regarding the "Expert Halo:" Back in the 1970s I had the good fortune of attending an avalanche seminar in Jackson Hole where many of the top names spoke. When Ed LaChapelle (probably the top guy in N. America at the time) was introduced as an "avalanche expert" he said something I'll never forget: "Don't call me that, most all the "experts" are dead. If you think you're an expert you are dangerous." During his talk he gave several examples from his experience of situations where according to the science the slope should have been safe but it slid anyway. His conclusion was "avalanches are a bitch."

The classic definition of an expert is someone who just knows more than you about the subject. Be very careful whose hands you put your life in, including your own.

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thanks for that gem
before the turn of the century back when me and my crew were bc noobs and trying to figure things out
bruce and tom kimbrough came into the shop
where the chuting gallery and his book were our guides and daily readings
i had him sign it
https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...080&fit=bounds
took me over a decade, a lot of mistakes a few celebrations of friends lives and a lot of doings, formal and unformal edjucation and a shit load of fuck yeahs smiles
but i figured out i just wanted to be a seasoned journeyman and good partner who attempted to use knowledge and experiance to make good decisions make it back to the trailhead dnc and safe n sound and ski again another day.
and not seeing your name in the avvy report or obs or being on the news ment you were doing it right in my book that i aint never gonna write
and the oag kimbroughs stills my hero

The three friends who found the bodies were likewise experienced. The three rescuers were willing to accept a level of risk that was not appropriate for Search and Rescue. While they found the bodies hours before Search and Rescue would have, the swifter discovery did not change the outcome of the accident.

Grim. I've been involved in the recovery of a few avalanche fatalities, never a friend. Has to be unbelievably painful.

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Originally Posted by whipski

The three friends who found the bodies were likewise experienced. The three rescuers were willing to accept a level of risk that was not appropriate for Search and Rescue. While they found the bodies hours before Search and Rescue would have, the swifter discovery did not change the outcome of the accident.

Grim. I've been involved in the recovery of a few avalanche fatalities, never a friend. Has to be unbelievably painful.

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I cant imagine. Especially with their hand sticking out.


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Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick

I cant imagine. Especially with their hand sticking out.


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Yeah the hand on top is the worst part.

Many years ago I dug someone up alive after my beacon failed, only because the tip of their boot was sticking up above the surface.

The glove on top gives you hope... if there's someone else there to dig.

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A friend of mine got dug out alive only because his hand was sticking out, and his LA Dodgers ball cap was sitting on the surface nearby. No beacon.

Sadly, the trauma seemed to trigger latent paranoid schizophrenia and he was never the same following that incident. Last I saw him was when I visited him in a mental health hospital.

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Originally Posted by yeahman

A friend of mine got dug out alive only because his hand was sticking out, and his LA Dodgers ball cap was sitting on the surface nearby. No beacon.

Sadly, the trauma seemed to trigger latent paranoid schizophrenia and he was never the same following that incident. Last I saw him was when I visited him in a mental health hospital.

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That's heavy even for my tolerance.