Leg extensions. Worth it or worthless

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Originally Posted by jackstraw

And Dan, ditch the plate man. Best thing I did was having the doc unscrew that from my clavicle. Well worth it.

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That's the long term plan. It will cost me about $3k to have it removed and I've had more pressing financial priorities.

I'm definitely on board with ISBDs suggestions of strategic variety and downhill trail running for skiing prep.

I also try to do anything I can to make my life my workout. I don't take an elevator if there are stairs. If it's only a flight or few I run them two at a time. If it's more I still skip every other. In my house I run the stairs, period. I bike wherever possible. If I can't bike I park all the way at the far end of the lot. I do little micro workouts throughout the day at work. At home I stand on a balance board while watching TV or perusing tgr on the phone. Lots of little stuff that adds up to a lot when done all day every day.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

That's the long term plan. It will cost me about $3k to have it removed and I've had more pressing financial priorities.

I'm definitely on board with ISBDs suggestions of strategic variety and downhill trail running for skiing prep.

I also try to do anything I can to make my life my workout. I don't take an elevator if there are stairs. If it's only a flight or few I run them two at a time. If it's more I still skip every other. In my house I run the stairs, period. I bike wherever possible. If I can't bike I park all the way at the far end of the lot. I do little micro workouts throughout the day at work. At home I stand on a balance board while watching TV or perusing tgr on the phone. Lots of little stuff that adds up to a lot when done all day every day.

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This topic got some legs...

That’s funny. I do the same stuff. My wife makes fun of me because I stand on one foot when I dry off after a shower. Next shower is the other foot. When I work my upper body I flip over a bosu ball and stand on the flat side for bicep curls, shoulder presses etc. Always working on balance.

Ski season is nigh. Lots of great info in here. If you haven’t started getting ready, the time is now. Grab some bits and pieces from this and put together a work out. Esp leg blasters. Your body will thank you come ski season and may save you from an injury. I train year round with the occasional hiatus. Just got back in the gym after 2months off. I was still active though. Feels great.

Training for the New Alpinism has some excellent thoughts on periodization so it might be worth mentioning here. Especially the idea that strength forms the basis for endurance, which I’m sure has been around for a while but that’s where I read it. So a typical 6 month periodization might be 1-2 months of transition to training (especially important if you’ve taken time off recently), 2 months of max strength, and 3-4 months for muscular endurance. So if you’re looking to piece together a training plan, definitely consider something along the lines of that progression.

But yeah, more movement in general is always good. I love that I can (have to) walk to work these days.

The most effective exercise program is 3x48, whatever you can do at least 3 days a week, 48 weeks a year.

The best exercise program is one that incorporates all / most types of movement and strength; movement / flexibility, explosive movements, power, strength, muscular endurance, endurance and conditioning. The amount and frequency of these vary.

Don't get injured working out. An exercise that is less effective but safer is a good trade. Those less effective exercises are probably not noticeably less effective.

Probably the best exercises I have found to prepare me for resort skiing are relatively heavy high rep kettlebell swings; 12-15 reps, 3-5 sets, 60-100lbs (I like to pair them with KB Squat too), and leg blasters. Resort skiing mainly makes you sore due to the eccentric component of skiing. You have to train the eccentric, remember when Bode had that eccentric squat machine in his barn? You don't need one, but it was cool.

I miss the Crossfit thread

worth it.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Yeah, that's a good move. But, no bumpers in my home gym (man would I love some, though) so for safety reasons I generally shy away from snatching.



Well, if that's the case, just put the bar on your back and move more weight, eh?



Well, like I said, the next day I'll feel it more in my back than my legs. I squat plenty too, though. It's been working for me. This was closing day at Snowbird this year the day before my 36th birthday (in total sun-baked mank):

*Warning--Dickwaving Below*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQBGQLfmzmA

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Nice wave. That was awesome! Mineral basin? Curious, have/had you any spinal issues you’ve overcome in your ski history?

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Originally Posted by neufox47

Don't get injured working out. An exercise that is less effective but safer is a good trade. Those less effective exercises are probably not noticeably less effective.

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My mantra these days in a gym setting. Less is more.

Mtn biking, skiing or any outdoor sport...I'm working on it.

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Originally Posted by Self Jupiter

Nice wave. That was awesome! Mineral basin? Curious, have/had you any spinal issues you’ve overcome in your ski history?

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Looks like Rasta Chutes to me, that cliff is usually buried for most of the year but fun.

I'm resigned to finally gym exercising this fall, I hate gym exercising. Shit. But I need to. This thread is a good reference, thanks all.

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Originally Posted by neufox47

I miss the Crossfit thread

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We have a nutrition science thread now, maybe we're due for an exercise science thread.

Great post, agreed all around, especially not getting injured in the gym. Getting hurt skiing or riding? All in the game. Getting hurt lifting is unacceptable.

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Originally Posted by Self Jupiter

Nice wave. That was awesome! Mineral basin? Curious, have/had you any spinal issues you’ve overcome in your ski history?

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It's out past the end of Road to Provo a little ways. You can see it from Little Cloud. Took a tumble over some rocks once in '09 and bruised a vertebrae a bit, but otherwise no spinal issues thankfully. Never blown an ACL or anything else in that vein either, knock on wood.

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Originally Posted by muted

I'm resigned to finally gym exercising this fall, I hate gym exercising. Shit. But I need to. This thread is a good reference, thanks all.

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Age-related decline is primarily the result of reduced production of testosterone and HGH. Lifting heavy shit and sprinting stimulates test/HGH production like absolutely nothing else.

Nice, thanks DTM. You’re an inspiration.

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Originally Posted by neufox47

Resort skiing mainly makes you sore due to the eccentric component of skiing. You have to train the eccentric, remember when Bode had that eccentric squat machine in his barn? You don't need one, but it was cool.

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If that were strictly the case, why not do loads of eccentric pistols, reverse hamstring curls, eccentric quad extensions, etc? You can make basically any single-leg exercise purely eccentric by doing the concentric part with both legs. But I don't see anyone who claims eccentrics are key recommend that. AFAICT, Rob Shaul seems to have popularized the idea (at least with the general public) that eccentric loading is key and came up with leg blasters to address the issue...though none of the exercises in leg blasters actually have a purely eccentric component.

Personally, I don't think it's so much the eccentrics as I think it's the idea of resisting downward acceleration. Of course, resisting downward accelerations is a primarily eccentric load on the legs, but it's different than a slow eccentric load. That's why I like banded barbell back squats, where the bands accelerate you downwards faster than gravity, and the drop snatch, where again you have to accelerate downwards faster than gravity by pushing yourself under the bar. I also love jumping lunges, which as DTM said, is probably the best part of the leg blaster complex.

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Originally Posted by Self Jupiter

Nice, thanks DTM. You’re an inspiration.

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Thanks. I'm definitely pretty proud to still be skiing like that this close to 40. I even went through a period where due to some unrelated injuries and general life shit I skied <5 days over three seasons.

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Originally Posted by auvgeek

Personally, I don't think it's so much the eccentrics as I think it's the idea of resisting downward acceleration. Of course, resisting downward accelerations is a primarily eccentric load on the legs, but it's different than a slow eccentric load.

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Circular logic is circular? IDK, it seems like anything that has a pronounced eccentric component is going to cause the Repeated Bout Effect to kick in and significantly improve ski fitness.

This is pretty amusing. Exercise selection, outside of competition movements) is pretty low priority when building a training plan. For skiing, the primary exercise should always be skiing, except in the off-season. Even then, we don’t need to make any gym lift more important or less important than others. No one is gonna squat, deadlift, Romanian deadlift, or box jump their way down the mountain. Your exercises are there to make your muscles stronger, and more durable, while increasing your GPP, and endurance. Principles of strength training, endurance training and stamina training are much more important than exercise selection. If you apply those principles effectively exercise selection isn’t that important.

Nice stompage DTM!! This old boy doesn’t send much over about 15-20’ any more unless really soft and a nice transition. It’s not the stomping that is the issue, is a small miscalc that will make an old guy pay. Much longer recovery and with a family to take care of, missing work for a long stint sucks on the pocket book. Hurt my shoulder on a crash on firm conditions at Mission Ridge in Feb. out of work for 4 weeks. Luckily it was at full pay but it still cost me close to $1,500 for PT and tests.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Circular logic is circular? IDK, it seems like anything that has a pronounced eccentric component is going to cause the Repeated Bout Effect to kick in and significantly improve ski fitness.

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How is my logic circular? The term "eccentric" simply means the muscle is being lengthened as opposed to concentric (the muscle is contracted). How are squats, lunges, any movement in the leg blasters, etc -- any movement that's performed going up and down equally -- inherently "more eccentric" than concentric? What does a "pronounced eccentric component" mean? I'm not trying to be a jerk; you're knowledgeable and I'm genuinely curious. It's something I haven't really been able to understand since Rob Shaul's original article.

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Originally Posted by XavierD

Even then, we don’t need to make any gym lift more important or less important than others. No one is gonna squat, deadlift, Romanian deadlift, or box jump their way down the mountain. Your exercises are there to make your muscles stronger, and more durable, while increasing your GPP, and endurance. Principles of strength training, endurance training and stamina training are much more important than exercise selection. If you apply those principles effectively exercise selection isn’t that important.

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While I don't disagree with you, I can't ski primarily while I'm in grad school and so I have to show up to a trip ready to ski. As DTM said, the repeated bout effect is real so closer the exercise mimics skiing is key for me. After experimentation, I've found certain exercises are better than others. YMMV.

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Originally Posted by 2FUNKY

Awesome. Greased it. Ah, only to be 11yrs younger.....

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Originally Posted by 2FUNKY

Nice stompage DTM!! This old boy doesn’t send much over about 15-20’ any more unless really soft and a nice transition. It’s not the stomping that is the issue, is a small miscalc that will make an old guy pay. Much longer recovery and with a family to take care of, missing work for a long stint sucks on the pocket book. Hurt my shoulder on a crash on firm conditions at Mission Ridge in Feb. out of work for 4 weeks. Luckily it was at full pay but it still cost me close to $1,500 for PT and tests.

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Did you hit our head yesterday?

Nah. Just killin time. That hit looked well over my old man skillz.

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Originally Posted by auvgeek

How is my logic circular?

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I just felt like you answered your own question in a circular manner.

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Originally Posted by auvgeek

How are squats, lunges, any movement in the leg blasters, etc -- any movement that's performed going up and down equally -- inherently "more eccentric" than concentric? What does a "pronounced eccentric component" mean?

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A jumping lunge, for example, is going to have a stronger eccentric contraction than a regular lunge since you are catching yourself from a fall out of the air, downhill running is dominated by eccentric contractions, etc.

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Originally Posted by 2FUNKY

Nah. Just killin time. That hit looked well over my old man skillz.

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The second reply sounded like you had watched the clip for the first time twice!

Just stoked on the stoke. Esp after self jupiter quoted it and I watched it a second time. We now have a reply quota? Man this place is getting tough.

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Originally Posted by 2FUNKY

We now have a reply quota? Man this place is getting tough.

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Nah, it was just an easy incipient senility joke :D

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

A jumping lunge, for example, is going to have a stronger eccentric contraction than a regular lunge since you are catching yourself from a fall out of the air, downhill running is dominated by eccentric contractions, etc.

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Ah, of course. It's the strength of contraction not just overall movement. Makes total sense -- I'm not generally stupid but sometimes it takes different way of phrasing it for it to click.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Nah, it was just an easy incipient senility joke :D

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Today is soup day.

HehAttachment 247125

Lol. We got soft serve ice cream after lunch. Time for a nap.

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Originally Posted by XavierD

This is pretty amusing...we don’t need to make any gym lift more important or less important than others,

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Glad you're amused, but in a thread about leg extensions this is bad advice.

The preferred workout of Walter Jones, the hall of fame tackle for the Seahawks, was to repeatedly push his Escalade up the hill in his driveway while his wife steered. Obviously this worked out for him. His choice may have been unconventional, but it was certainly well informed. And he sure as hell wasn't doing leg curls and leg extensions.

2 more reasons why exercise choice matters:

-transfer from exercise to activity may be overrated from a physical stand point, but not from a motivational one.
-When you are older weaknesses, imbalances and poor mobility can start to cause big problems. Exercise choice becomes more important when your body becomes more of a puzzle