University choice

I was always under the impression that California public colleges were pricey for students from out of state.

I went to UCSD and lived/worked at a mountaineering shop in Berkeley for several year who employeed a lot of students. UCSD has good access to climbing and so-so access to skiing. I lived and played with skiers, so we made it happen, but it was a well planned and high motivation effort with minimal sleep to make quality skiing regularly happen. Bay Area is pretty far from good climbing and good skiing, though there are several gyms and some famous small outdoor crags. It always felt like a full day outing to enjoy some time with the good stuff, but the climbing and skiing communities there are strong.

University of Utah has a strong math/physics/engineering program, at least at graduate level. Plenty of those professors and grad students get after it in the outdoors in the wasatch and Colorado plateau.

What about university of ak in anchorage?

My now junior is likely not going to a 4-yr university after graduating. Last year was super rough for him and he’s only doing so-so with the transition back to being in-class. He is extremely gifted but motivation only comes in fits and starts.

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Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

My good friends in stumptowns' kid almost went to Reed. but chose Columbia because he grew up in Portland (went to OES).

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is Columbia's math profile any good?

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Originally Posted by ::: :::

I’m gonna bump this one


The kid is a junior this year so we’re talking about college

for clarity, it’s me & mrs ::: ::: mostly, not the kid…he’s somewhat ambivalent for the moment…he is somewhat of a procrastinator so it’s not yet risen to the front of his preparation/research radar. Mrs ::: ::: is a total nerd & academic go-getter so she keeps bringing up the rigorous programs. I keep leaning into where can he have a life in addition to good academic programs. He has the intellectual chops to go to a big name, but, as a white male from a comfortable family who doesn’t do any extracurricular stuff, he’s not necessarily that competitive as a recruit beyond academics.

He is likely looking at a math major, also physics; MAYBE engineering but he always seems to list it as a concession option when we talk about this. He’s doing Calc BC as a junior and seems to be the class curve-wrecker for now.

OR State is the easy answer, esp as he doesn’t yet seem to be super ambitious. In-state. Cheap. Solid but not epic programs. Let him go graduate somewhere name-brand when he gets his direction nailed.

He will say Cal Tech if you ask his preference. I think that opinion hinges on there being a climbing gym there, coupled with the math/physics reputation, but it’s a semi-serious opinion at best. And his chances seem slim TBH.

So, asking the collective…what western schools with reasonable proximity to the mountains for skiing/climbing offer reputable math/physics programs?

Or, if you are in or came out of a math heavy program, what is on your radar for solid programs irrespective of mtn access?

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Coming from a dad with a senior in college at an expensive private school and a recent grad from UO unless your kid is a serious climber I would say go BEAVS. It's virtually impossible to get into a tier one school without a resume showing something extraordinary these days and if your kid has great numbers you might receive some money at OSU to retain local talent. My second kid passed up a OSU presidential scholarship to attend a second/third tier NE liberal carts college and the experience has been awesome but as a guy who looks at things with economic the $150K plus delta is tough to justify. If you were to ask my wife she would tell you it's worth every penny FWIW.
She was VERY interested in physics starting school and after a couple semesters knew it wasn't for her and switched to Econ.
Keep in mind that my kid was a national merit scholar semifinalist with 99 percentile test scores with shitload of extra curricular activities and she was wait listed at all the top tiers.

If you look at private options find a place that will lock in rates for 4 tears and offer merit aide. My kid is at a place that is "financial need" aide only. After my oldest finished school her rates doubled and I'm in the process of selling a kidney to pay for her last year.

I will second Utah as an out of state option. I have talked to a parent of a graduate there and they offered easy ways to obtain instate status for their recruits and are in a arms race to increase thier national status by making it more desirable for out of state students.

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Originally Posted by bodywhomper

I was always under the impression that California public colleges were pricey for students from out of state.

I went to UCSD and lived/worked at a mountaineering shop in Berkeley for several year who employeed a lot of students. UCSD has good access to climbing and so-so access to skiing. I lived and played with skiers, so we made it happen, but it was a well planned and high motivation effort with minimal sleep to make quality skiing regularly happen. Bay Area is pretty far from good climbing and good skiing, though there are several gyms and some famous small outdoor crags. It always felt like a full day outing to enjoy some time with the good stuff, but the climbing and skiing communities there are strong.

University of Utah has a strong math/physics/engineering program, at least at graduate level. Plenty of those professors and grad students get after it in the outdoors in the wasatch and Colorado plateau.

What about university of ak in anchorage?

My now junior is likely not going to a 4-yr university after graduating. Last year was super rough for him and he’s only doing so-so with the transition back to being in-class. He is extremely gifted but motivation only comes in fits and starts.

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our impression thus far is that out-of-state is about as expensive as going private, depending on the private...sort of in the same order of magnitude anyway

and rumor has it that small privates are more likely to try to provide financial incentives to balance it out more...

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Originally Posted by ::: :::

is Columbia's math profile any good?

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He's doing EE/Comp Sci there.
I think their math program is good, but again. look at the links via that Reed link regarding graduate success. That says a lot, more than US Spews and World Report.

See table 4: https://www.reed.edu/ir/NSF-PhD-STEM2011.pdf Princeton and Hahvahd have better results than Yale or Columbia.

MIT was the only other place I went to that had a comparable math program to Reed.

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Originally Posted by fatnslow

Coming from a dad with a senior in college at an expensive private school and a recent grad from UO unless your kid is a serious climber I would say go BEAVS. It's virtually impossible to get into a tier one school without a resume showing something extraordinary these days and if your kid has great numbers you might receive some money at OSU to retain local talent. My second kid passed up a OSU presidential scholarship to attend a second/third tier NE liberal carts college and the experience has been awesome but as a guy who looks at things with economic the $150K plus delta is tough to justify. If you were to ask my wife she would tell you it's worth every penny FWIW.
She was VERY interested in physics starting school and after a couple semesters knew it wasn't for her and switched to Econ.
Keep in mind that my kid was a national merit scholar semifinalist with 99 percentile test scores with shitload of extra curricular activities and she was wait listed at all the top tiers.

If you look at private options find a place that will lock in rates for 4 tears and offer merit aide. My kid is at a place that is "financial need" aide only. After my oldest finished school her rates doubled and I'm in the process of selling a kidney to pay for her last year.

I will second Utah as an out of state option. I have talked to a parent of a graduate there and they offered easy ways to obtain instate status for their recruits and are in a arms race to increase thier national status by making it more desirable for out of state students.

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congrats to your daughter on the NMS semifinalist -- that's great
PSAT is coming up here on Oct 10, so we'll see how he does re: nat'l merit scholar stuff

I'm kind of in the OSU works for now camp atm...good to hear that's not unreasonable
i'll put more scrutiny on Utah too

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Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

He's doing EE/Comp Sci there.
I think their math program is good, but again. look at the links via that Reed link regarding graduate success. That says a lot, more than US Spews and World Report.

See table 4: https://www.reed.edu/ir/NSF-PhD-STEM2011.pdf

MIT was the only other place I went to that had a comparable math program to Reed.

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cool, thank you -- the comparison is enlightening

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Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

My good friends in stumptowns' kid almost went to Reed. but chose Columbia because he grew up in Portland (went to OES).

At Reed. you can take grad level abstract algebra (groups, rings fields, modules, Galois Theory) as a sophomore. It's a kickass school.

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Let's not forget the drugs!

Have been around some Reedies (an old employer hired a few interns from there), and they do tend to be rocket scientists, though I have the impression that the less driven / focused students there just wind up taking a lot of drugs for 4 years.

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Originally Posted by dan_pdx

Let's not forget the drugs!

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Gee, I don't remember any drugs.

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Have been around some Reedies (an old employer hired a few interns from there), and they do tend to be rocket scientists, though I have the impression that the less driven / focused students there just wind up taking a lot of drugs for 4 years.

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Well, that was an option. It was kind of like a drug Olympics for some: see who could dose the most and still ace classes.

Where was I again?

Oh yeah. I was a Rocket Scientist for the star wars project in the 80s.

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Originally Posted by ::: :::

our impression thus far is that out-of-state is about as expensive as going private, depending on the private...sort of in the same order of magnitude anyway

and rumor has it that small privates are more likely to try to provide financial incentives to balance it out more...

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You might look at the Western Undergrad Exchange program that caps out of state tuition at 150% of in state tuition for students from participating states and institutions.

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Originally Posted by ::: :::

The kid is a junior this year so we’re talking about college
...
He is likely looking at a math major, also physics; MAYBE engineering but he always seems to list it as a concession option when we talk about this.
...
OR State is the easy answer, esp as he doesn’t yet seem to be super ambitious.
...

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Not from math & physics background, but interacting with different kind of propellerheads in various fields of academia, so take my opinion with a bucket of salt.

One could suggest that one option could be a place that has solid programs in math & phsysics, but also expose him to the novel/future fields of research: AI, Computational Linguistics, Cog/Neuroscience etc.

In the field of M&F (from my personal experience), there seems to be a large variety of aptitude between the individuals. The absolute top tier ones (in general) seem to be very, very driven...to the borderline of being monomaniacs. A very peculiar breed, indeed. Then there are a group that might not find themselves optimized to the "general" maths or physics, but yet find a niche that they excel in. Say, logic, quantum physics or bioinformatics.

I think the gist is to throw the young guns into an environment where they are exposed to the multitude of possibilities within the larger community of physics & maths, and let them find their own kicks. Your better half might be of help when zeroing in certain aspects of your sons interests, but even for an academic it might be hard to be aware of all the possible possibilities.

I personally think the mnt access as bonus; if the school is up his alley, he will revel there regardless of the climbing/skiing possibilities. If not, no amount of climbing & skiing will save him from being a jaded old fuck and start posting here on TGR.

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Originally Posted by ::: :::

this actually came up last night
he kind of winced at military...not sure it isn't a good idea tho...it checks some boxes
[tho doesn't hit my "have a life" segment much if I'm understanding academy life at all. Waay back in my own college search, I did a week at the naval academy as a pre-college visit for students thinking about the academy]

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From what I have heard, the first year is fairly structured, but after that, it is supposedly similar to a traditional university, except you wear a uniform. It is definitely not as hard core as the Naval Academy.

One of the guys I know from USAFA went from never skiing or fly fishing to becoming one of the best skiiers and fishermen I know during his 4 years at the academy. It definitely isn't for everyone, but there is a lot to be said for getting an ivy league-ish education for free.

Let me know if you are interested in chatting with someone about it. A good friend of mine (Air Force Lt Col) is an instructor there right now and another younger friend graduated form there about 4 years ago. I am sure they would be more than happy to share their knowledge.

I would not recommend a true CC for someone who is way ahead in math. No idea what Oregon CCs are like, my opinion is based on my location. UO sounds like a great "CC" like option for someone from Oregon who is not sure about direction but is into math and wants to figure out if they want to go to a top tier school.

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Originally Posted by cspringsposer

From what I have heard, the first year is fairly structured, but after that, it is supposedly similar to a traditional university, except you wear a uniform. It is al definitely not as hard core as the Naval Academy.

One of the guys I know from USAFA went from never skiing or fly fishing to becoming one of the best skiiers and fishermen I know during his 4 years at the academy. It definitely isn't for everyone, but there is a lot to be said for getting an ivy league-ish education for free.

Let me know if you are interested in chatting with someone about it. A good friend of mine (Air Force Lt Col) is an instructor there right now and another younger friend graduated form there about 4 years ago. I am sue they would be more than happy to share their knowledge.

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I would never recommend USAFA to someone given that it is known to be heavily infiltrated with Christian extremists.

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Originally Posted by riser3

I would never recommend USAFA to someone given that it is known to be heavily infiltrated with Christian extremists.

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I can assure you my atheist friend that teaches at USAFA is not a Christian extremist.

To be clear, I am definitely not trying to recruit anyone to go to USAFA, just trying to help folks find information for their research.

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Originally Posted by cspringsposer

I can assure you my athiest friend that teaches at USAFA is not a Christian extremist.

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That is refreshing news.

I would not consider SLO (San Luis Obispo) if your kid wants to ski. I graduated from there and never skied unless I went back home for the holidays. Just too far away, and it's worse timewise now given the traffic. It is a great school and I loved it there. Ocean is close by if he's into that.

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Originally Posted by ::: :::

i put it in the OR thread, but we discovered OSU has a campus in Bend, 15mins from Bachelor. He lit up at that one, but, on further reflection, it doesn't really hit the math/physics directly.

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It's more like 20 minutes from the Campus on Colorado to the Sunrise lot, so long as you leave before 0730 (0700 on weekend)...

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Originally Posted by ::: :::

only issue is it's here, near mom/dad...lol

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Change the locks. Duh.
Or downsize and move to a different state - that's what my parents did

Has he considered International Baccalaureate to help him hone in on what he wants and to give him a leg up in admission applications?

I know some folks in cogsci at UCSD and uiuc. Know a mathematical neurobiologist at the u in anchorage. I can inquire about communications with high schoolers interested in their programs, ie, what the department outreach programs are for prospective undergrads.

Friend was undergrad UCSD, grew up skiing in SLC, grad school in SLC, post doc in Boston. Skied more when living in San Diego than Boston because the quality of skiing available when pre-planning ski trips. Skied at Jay and a few other places in NE. As a grad student in SLC, he skied a lot.

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Originally Posted by KQ

Has he considered International Baccalaureate to help him hone in on what he wants and to give him a leg up in admission applications?

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This!
My daughter, a junior also, is all up in the IB classes and absolutely loves it. There are lots of advantages that I’m still learning about with this program.

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Originally Posted by Buzzworthy

This!
My daughter, a junior also, is all up in the IB classes and absolutely loves it. There are lots of advantages that I’m still learning about with this program.

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IB and AP kind of similar. My daughter graduated with an IB diploma, keep in mind that you need to test and receive acceptable results to get college credit and different colleges have different acceptances of these credits. IB credits at a in-state uni is the easiest to deal with. Some high schools offer college credit courses on campus, my oldest kid's friend was able to graduate in 3 years.

Funny you people mention IB. My daughter, a dual USCANcit who is in school in Canada for her BachEd to be a HS teacher, added IB as one of her qualification options in the hope that it will open up more opportunities. She gets to do her second practicum back home in VT at a school that offers IB.

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Originally Posted by ::: :::

I’m gonna bump this one


The kid is a junior this year so we’re talking about college

for clarity, it’s me & mrs ::: ::: mostly, not the kid…he’s somewhat ambivalent for the moment…he is somewhat of a procrastinator so it’s not yet risen to the front of his preparation/research radar. Mrs ::: ::: is a total nerd & academic go-getter so she keeps bringing up the rigorous programs. I keep leaning into where can he have a life in addition to good academic programs. He has the intellectual chops to go to a big name, but, as a white male from a comfortable family who doesn’t do any extracurricular stuff, he’s not necessarily that competitive as a recruit beyond academics.

He is likely looking at a math major, also physics; MAYBE engineering but he always seems to list it as a concession option when we talk about this. He’s doing Calc BC as a junior and seems to be the class curve-wrecker for now.

OR State is the easy answer, esp as he doesn’t yet seem to be super ambitious. In-state. Cheap. Solid but not epic programs. Let him go graduate somewhere name-brand when he gets his direction nailed.

He will say Cal Tech if you ask his preference. I think that opinion hinges on there being a climbing gym there, coupled with the math/physics reputation, but it’s a semi-serious opinion at best. And his chances seem slim TBH.

So, asking the collective…what western schools with reasonable proximity to the mountains for skiing/climbing offer reputable math/physics programs?

Or, if you are in or came out of a math heavy program, what is on your radar for solid programs irrespective of mtn access?

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Undergrad STEM classes these days require 3-5+ hours of study per hour of lecture. Shit is hard, and it comes at you fast. It's a 60hr/wk job, and over 80% of STEM grads take over 5 years to get an undergrad. And it's expensive af. It has to be considered irrespective of skiing.

That said, has anyone mentioned Colorado School of Mines yet? Highly respected [and endowed...and selective... ] and can take a nerd anywhere a Cal/Ivy undergrad degree can.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKh7QwsrbMY


Geodesy informs so many applied earth and space sciences that geodesy grads are 1% technocrats of the planet. Ohio State geodetic science grads literally write their own tickets in government, academia, and industry worldwide. Acceptance and standing in the program will get him secondments to any university in the world, should he so desire, and pretty much anyone who can handle the program qualifies for the kind of finaid you don't have to pay back...




What is Geodesy?
Geodesy is the science of determining the size and shape of the Earth (including its temporal variation) using measurements primarily (today) of distance, time, and gravity. Being one of the oldest sciences, with a history of more than two thousand years, the traditional measurements were mostly associated with land surveying (distance and direction measurements of landmarks and celestial objects) and gravity observations (to determine the geoid, as reference surface for heights, and the plumb direction). The age of satellites, radio and optical science, and computer technology have completely transformed these methods and enabled geodesy to branch into many of the Earth sciences where the exquisite measurement precision has enabled observations of ocean circulation, terrestrial hydrology, tides, solid Earth deformation, tectonic plate motions, ice sheet mass change, ionospheric and atmospheric changes, Earth rotation variation, and other geodynamical phenomena with unprecedented detail and accuracy.

Contemporary geodesy utilizes the latest in mathematical modeling, research in physics, astrometry, scientific computations, and statistical analysis to aid in the understanding of ocean currents, sea level rise, the world's hydrological cycles, atmospheric conditions, global climate change, post-glacial rebound, and elastic deformation, particularly as it relates to natural hazards, such as earthquakes, volcanoes, and flooding. In these Earth science applications, accurate terrestrial reference frames, high-resolution global gravity models, and precise time keeping are of paramount and fundamental importance. Geodesy, of course, continues the tradition of forming the backbone for all national and international datums and reference systems needed to establish three-dimensional positional control of regional and global networks of terrestrial points, as well as the world’s civilian and military satellite missions to the Earth and beyond. Many geodetic principles and techniques also have found application in studies of the Moon, other planets, and their satellites.

https://earthsciences.osu.edu/resear...ademic-program

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Originally Posted by fatnslow

IB and AP kind of similar. My daughter graduated with an IB diploma, keep in mind that you need to test and receive acceptable results to get college credit and different colleges have different acceptances of these credits. IB credits at a in-state uni is the easiest to deal with. Some high schools offer college credit courses on campus, my oldest kid's friend was able to graduate in 3 years.

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Yes, she takes both classes. If an IB course isn’t offered she’ll take the AP course for the particular subject. Kiddo is on the premed track with a lot of science work currently.
The tests for IB are certainly not cheap either. She loves the challenge and is keeping a 3.95 gpa through it all.
We’ve been active on the college talks as of late. UW is still number one on her list for undergrad. Out of state for now and also talking about leaving Utah after 24 years here so I guess we’ll see how it all ends up.