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Make sure to do Tahoe next year. The few of us on your skis around the lake are always surprised there aren't more - people just need to get on them. Had at least 10 different people at Squaw yesterday ask about my Billy Goats. Praxis and Moment can handle a little indie competition.Quote:
Originally Posted by iggyskier
Starting with the demo @ Loveland this Saturday, April 5th...we will have a stiffer version of the new 186 Wren 112 if anyone wants to test the size of their testicles.
See you Colorado mags on Saturday!
Attachment 153668Quote:
Originally Posted by PowTron
:biggrin:
Pretty much 2mm. Same lack of camber underfoot, same rocker profile in tip and tail, same flex, same bi-radius sidecut. Just 2 more mm of lovingQuote:
Originally Posted by lordf
It is pretty comparable to the BG Tour, so it is going to be rounder and more even flexing than the BG. If the BG flex was around a 8/10, the Steeple 112 would sit around 6.5-7. The biggest difference is how much more even the flex is, allowing the tips to plane up at much slower speeds.Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliBrit
Some of the guys at the factory want this ski too, and we've built some 191cm Jeffreys in the past to test, so it is something that probably happens soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertow
The Caylor to Jeffrey 122 was one of the smallest set of changes we made. The Caylor was just so dialed. Besides the change in the width, we have updated all the sidecut on all of them to be based off the 191cm, so in the 181cm size, the Jeffrey 122 is a bit straighter. Lastly, we tapered out the tip shape a bit, so they are not as boxy and a bit smoother overall.Quote:
Originally Posted by lordf
It will definitely happen next year. We just picked up a demo truck right before SIA and it has been on the road almost constantly since then, so we hit has many places as possible but could only do so much in the few months since we got it. We will definitely be sure to spend sometime down in Tahoe and Mammoth next year.Quote:
Originally Posted by TahoeJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertow
Steeple 112 in the 189 would be the ticket. Think I'm just little taller than you, and damn sure fatter. 189 length is a sweet go between the 186 and the 191/193 range. Never felt short, and wasn't wanting more tail with it.
I could easily replace me Viciks and Billygoats with the two Steeple widths. Being a C&D guy, I'm not as in love with Billygoats as most guys, but I liked the Steeple more than the Billygoats by quite a bit.
Steeples are a homerun in both widths!
I would sport a BG in a 215 Iggy. I hope that's in the master plan.
Word. Looking forward to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by iggyskier
Ripped all Tuesday on my Billy Goats at Squaw, Alpine today. If a mag with a BSL of 306 +/- 1 or 2mm wants a lap give me a hollar.Quote:
Originally Posted by TahoeJ
Think conditions for them are done though.....
Looking forward to the Whistler demo. Might hurt my wallet though cause I'm sure I'm going to want a whole bunch.
Loveland demo today was a good time. Ryan and Steven are cool dudes and seemed pumped to be there. Conditions weren't great, but gave me a chance to test the skis ability to mach through chop and crud. Up top it was tracked out 1-2 day old dense snow and crud setting up into low angle bumps at lower elevations.
I could go for a BG, both width wrens, and a Jeffery 114. All are excellent. In today's conditions I think I had the most fun on the 186 wren 102. Not quite as confidence inspiring through crud as the 114 for me, but fuck that baby will lock into a turn on hardpack.
I think my next ski purchase will be the 186 BG. It just works. Very stable at high speed through chop, yet still incredibly maneuverable in tight places and easy to shut down. Although everyone already knew that, it's a revelation for me. In the few short shots of untracked consolidated snow I found, the RES tip felt very surfy and didn't hook at all. Would love to give them a shot in some fresh snow.
ALRIGHT. There's been a lot of chatter about the 186cm Wrenegade 112. Good and bad.
I was one of the people clambering for a 186cm Wren to begin with. So obviously I was stoked when ON3P announced it was happening. Mostly people have been bitching about the fact that the new Wren was softer and had a tighter turn radius than the old Wren. Some of that was me - I was a little hesitant on the new ski, before I even tried it. When I said I wanted a 186 Wren, what I really wanted was the 12/13 or 13/14 191cm Wren, exact same shape and flex, just scaled down slightly to 186cm.
So I skied the first iteration of the 186cm about a month ago. Honestly, I was disappointed. It wasn't a bad ski by any means, but it just didn't quite have enough ooomph. The increased sidecut I could live with. The flex... notsomuch. It was definitely much easier to ski, and still damp and stable like all ON3Ps, but it wasn't quite the "charge through chop and small children" ski that I was hoping for.
Rather than bitch about it more on TGR, I emailed Scott. That's one of the rad things about ON3P, you can talk directly to the owner of the company and he actually gives a shit about what you have to say. He had already been considering pressing a double carbon 186 Wren and giving it a shot. Maybe it would become the production ski, maybe it would become a team/special order "comp" edition. But one way or another, ON3P seemed to agree that they needed to try a true charger version of the 186cm Wren.
It got built and found it's way back into my hands to test. Unfortunately I only got two runs on it. However, the two runs I got sold me. Simply put, this is THE ski for really getting after it and charging on firm and variable snow. The ski is powerful, precise, has tremendous edgehold, and no speed limit through all sorts of variable crap snow.
Don't get me wrong, this is a very specific ski for a very specific type of skier. And it probably won't be a quiver of one for most, although it could be. If you are the type of skier that goes skiing primarily when it is soft/fresh, or spends most of your time seeking out soft snow, this is not your ski. You'll be better served by the Billy Goat, which does an incredible job of providing great stability at speed in all soft snow conditions, while still being incredibly maneuverable and having great float. Where the BG lacks is precision, grip, and stability on firm snow. Don't get me wrong, the BG isn't bad on hard snow, and if you're only concerned about hard snow performance to get to and from soft places, it's great. But if you're trying to ski the same, burly lines at speed no matter what the snow conditions are, that's where the Wren comes in.
It's not a pow ski. It's a comp ski.
Four of us, ranging from 140lbs to 180lbs, skied the stiffened 186 Wren and loved it. I suppose a few heavier dudes might still want the 191. But the new 186 is no longer a bastardization of the Wren, it's the real thing - just sized so that average sized people can ski it. From the sounds of it, the stiffer version will be the production flex, at least in the 186cm size (dunno about the 176).
FWIW I've also owned or skied 185cm Blizzard Cochise, 184cm Blizzard Answer, 189cm Praxis RX, 190cm Icelantic Seeker, OG 181cm Wren, 184cm Praxis Freeride, and 182cm Moment Belafonte and feel the 186cm Wren is a superior ski for this type of skiing to all of these. My other three friends are coming from the current 191cm Wren, 187cm Belafonte, 190cm Icelantic Seeker, and 189cm Rossi RC112 - so a pretty good collection of skis built for a similar purpose - and all of us agreed that the new Wren is the best of the bunch.
Thanks ON3P for making this ski. Can't wait to get my own pair.
I thought the 186 wren 112 I rode on Saturday was a tank, but still easy to ski and pretty forgiving. I bet the stiffer version absolutely crushes.
I was told the production version would be stiffer than what I skied. So I suppose that was the version you were on Adrenalated.
I wanted to try the Steeple 102, but really didn't have the time to get it into the conditions I wanted. I also wanted to try the 193 Cease and Desist, but didn't have the time, right conditions and terrain to test. Hopefully I'll get the chance when a local gets a pair. I really need to get those out in my normal midwinter terrain over a couple days and send some serious cliffs to know if it'll blend what I like about the Kusalas and Billygoats.
I got a few runs on both the soft and stiff Wren. I also own the older balls-to-the-wall '11-12 191 Wren and the '12-13 191 Billygoat. The older Wren really doesn't compare, its got much more tip to it, so its quite a bit different. You really have to muscle it through bumps. The stiffer Wren, you still need to muscle it a bit more than the soft Wren, but when the speed is high, the stiffer Wren is definitely a bit better. My old 191 Wren, even more so. If I was skiing chair 1 all day long in skied out conditions, I'd choose the soft Wren. If I was skiing chair 9 all day long, I'd choose my 191s about 1-2cm more forward (sidecut moved also). If I was skiing both, and especially South Chutes, I'd want the stiff Wren - fun ski in that terrain! On a charger scale, the soft Wren is a 7, the stiff Wren is a 8.5, and my 191s are an 11. I think a 191 stiff Wren would be money, maybe 1cm-2cm more back. Got to take the stiff Wren off a couple cornices and sent Crack Rock a couple times. Pretty good landing pad, and felt good coming in hot into variable snow after the cornices. I think the 191 at 1-2cm back, if it existed, would have stomped a bit better, of course, and this would be the main reason I'd go for that over a 186. No big hucks? The stiff 186 would be enough I think.
Steven and Ryan were awesome dudes. Hope you guys got some pow today!
A little bit of old 11-12 Wren stoke from yesterday:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIYJgU9sK7c
^^^^^ ^ I have first gen 191 Wren and still love the ski... Kick ass charger that is easy to ski... Have a feeling I am going to regret not picking up another of this years 191s...
Nice vid Lindahl...
Thank you for the feedback on the new 186 guys. For next season I am going to retire my 190 bibby pros in favor of something with more of a flat tail. I do ski switch from time to time but being that I ride chopped up crud and hard snow most of the time i don't care about the huge tail as much. Skiing more demanding lines and steep open faces fast in conditions where the snow isnt great sums up my skiing perfectly (i ski at mammoth mostly on weekends and the occasional weekday pow day which i will keep the moments for) and i think the wren is the ticket to having more fun/performance doing what I like to do.
i find the 190 bibby definitely skis short (albeit due to the huge rocker) and i am thinking the 186 might ski short for me as well even with the flatter tail. I am 6' 180 lbs. and am still mulling over the new 186 wren vs the 12-13 191 wren and which would fit my needs best.
Any thoughts on either would be great! Thanks.
who's on 176 BG? I'm trying to get a reference from your size and other skis you have!
considering to replace my r2 115 178 by a stiffer better in crud resort pow ski, would prefer a flatish tail, similar to the r2 but longer radius and stiffer but the bg seems to be the best I could find!
me 5'5", ~147 naked, just got a cochise 177 and have a prophet 98 172...
not sure I'll be able to demo and I'm afraid the 176 might feel a little short
I skied several days on the 190 bibby this year and have skied the stiff 186 wren and the 13/14 191 wren. The 190 bibby is nothing at all like the other skis. I honestly don't really know how to compare the bibby to any of the wrens other than to state the obvious - It turns more, is less stable, less powerful and precise, and much more playful and easier going. It's really an apples and oranges comparison.Quote:
Originally Posted by trex_9
I wouldn't say the 186 wren skis short, but it is a 186. It is not a 190 something. They don't have the pure straightline stability of the 191, but it's plenty stable enough imo. If you are happy(ish) with the 190 bibby doing the kind of skiing you do, I would say go with the 186. I used my 190 bibby as more of a billy goat ski as I found it to not have enough backbone at speed. I'm about 10lbs lighter than you but personally I don't feel I need anything longer than a 186 wrenegade.
Edit: In addition to the above, I should mention that the stiff 186 wren is without a doubt going to be my next ski. I'm one of the people that adrenalated mentioned skied this ski; it is far and away more maneuverable than and has 90-95% of the power of my 188 rc112s and is a good deal more stable and confidence inspiring than my 190 seekers. This ski is $$$ provided you are looking for a full on comp ski. It reminds me a little of a 182 moment garbones in that it has no speed limit, incredibly powerful and precise, poppy yet stable. But a much more refined design. This is absolutely the best ski of its type I've yet to ski.
Sounds like I need a Wren in my future, can we get a better topo sheet design. Any leftover Grizzlycorns?
Iggy, any word on this yet?Quote:
Originally Posted by iggyskier
Thanks a bunch for the insight! I realize they are two incredibly different skis and what I feel the bibby is lacking for me i think the Wren will pick up.Quote:
Originally Posted by cooks
I have definitely been drinking the TGR kool aid a little too much and trying to justify the 191 but the 186 will likely be the ticket.
Am I missing something? It sounds like you like the bibby, but don't like it's shortcomings? Why not split the difference and go Billygoat?Quote:
Originally Posted by trex_9
I do like it in certain situations, but unfortunately I don't get to ski in those types of conditions very often. Basically, I want to downsize slightly underfoot, get something that is stiffer, and get rid of the large rockered tail.
BillyGoat looks like a great shape, but its all to similar to the bibby, unless I am missing something.
We are probably going to do a small run of GC tops for sale in May.Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyb
We will be at:Quote:
Originally Posted by tuco
Alta on Saturday - 4/12.
Brighton on Sunday - 4/13
Whistler on Sat/Sun - 4/19 & 4/20