Printable View
Apologies for rehashing because I'm pretty sure the answer is buried in this thread somewhere but.......
Raider vs Raider EVO??
I think Evo has a new brake that requires heel piece to be rotated and therefore 3 riser levels not 5. Evo appears to be a little bit heavier, Also 11/13 v 10/12/14
Is that it?
There's a 15 too that comes with the freerider spacer (which btw is a new design and not the same as the old Raider spacer).
Was tempted to try the Evo for my setup this year, but then remembered you should never buy in the first year of a new model release, especially for something as techy as an ATK binding. Think I'll wait for next year.
The toe release value adjustment seems to be a good touch, not sure how effective it'll be though
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcpnz
This is a pretty obvious question, but just wanted to confirm before dropping $$$ on new binders...
I'm working on fitting some likely new ATKs (likely Kuluar) onto some skis with existing hole set that I'd like to re-use, at least for the heels.
My take from the template is that the "solid line 3" is where the boot heel edge should be in order to put the boot in the center of the heel range (in this case, 20mm range so 10mm forward and 10mm back). And also that this line takes into account the 4mm heel gap.
So net-net, if the new toe holes put my heel edge at that line (~1 cm back from the forward heel holes), then I should be centered and have full adjustment range.
Sorry to be so pedantic. Thx!
Attachment 431953
Evo doesn't come out for a few more months and I don't think anyone has skied them or even fondled them yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcpnz
In stock and already on sale at Oliunid https://www.oliunid.com/atk-raider-1...-bindings.html
That's a really good deal for a brand new model, but then again, it's a brand new model. Still intrigued by how the front RV adjustments work.
^^ to clarify above, the video on the ATK website shows how it works, I'm more wondering whether it'll actually work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benneke10
Wow, Oliunid always delivers! I reached out to ATK a few months ago and they said they wouldn't be available till February so cool to see they're ahead of schedule. Lame that the brakes look integrated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pins and Skins
Isn’t it kind of weird that ATK stock images of the EVO models show brakes up but heel pins forward - I thought the whole thing with new brake design was it worked like everyone else’s and relied on heel rotation to lock up brake in touring mode.
But then again maybe I just dont understand what this means and what is innovative about a system used on tech bindings for decades
I thought the front brake was innovative but apparently didn’t catch on. This … not so much.Quote:
AUTOMATIC BRAKE SYSTEM: an extraordinarily innovative system that eliminates any action for activating the rear skibrake. The mechanism is set fully automatically and, when switching from uphill to downhill mode, the skibrake is activated without the need for any additional activity.
And also, auto/integrated brakes mean more moving parts --> generally not good for tech bindings. You can see a scenario where something freezes over or breaks, and as a result, the brakes don't retract or release
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcpnz
Search didn't turn up "gapless" in this thread so apologies if this is a repeat question. Has anyone tried running their ATKs, specifically the raider heel with no gap or sub 1mm? Seems like the heel has the travel to do it, so I'm wondering why ATK still specs a 4mm gap and what the consequences of ignoring that?
ATK says that the Cam system - which has parallel pins that move perpendicularly - eliminates the need for gapless with comparable performance. I wouldn't run them gapless, it would probably be much more difficult to release than intented.Quote:
Originally Posted by flip
Ill gladly exept the extra travel before you hit the brick. Seems like a design feature
Sent from my SM-A536W using TGR Forums mobile app
Bob's Leisure is now carrying the entire EVO line
https://www.bobleisure.com/listing/m...pplier/295?p=1
Do free ride spacers al09 work on Rt10 s? I know it says it doesn’t but the DPS r10 looks like it does work with the spacer. These look like rt10’s hence my question.
https://escaperoute.ca/products/dps-r10-bindings
ATK's own website says AL09s do not work with the normal RT10s, but your link says otherwise! Maybe best to email DPS?
For the new RT10 EVO, you would need the new AL13 spacer: https://www.atkbindings.com/en/prodo...spacer-al13-3/
Quote:
Originally Posted by iac27
DPS RT10 =/= RT10 EVOQuote:
Originally Posted by Pins and Skins
Unless I’m mistaken aren’t they more like Haute Route 10 with the old push button brake. In that case maybe they do work with the old spacer not the new one.
Gawd ATK’s line up is confusing
The DPS RT10 is equivalent to the original RT10 from ATK (https://www.atkbindings.com/en/prodo...g-en/rt-10-en/)
The RT10 EVO is different due to its new riser design and auto brakes.
It seems the AL09 brakes will work with the original RT10s (DPS or ATK) per iac27's link.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcpnz
They really need to consolidate the product line, it makes zero sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcpnz
I'm pretty sure the AL09 spacers don't work with the regular (non-EVO, non-DPS) R10s. I was fiddling with a pair of R10s and AL09 spacers a few weeks back, and I'm 99% sure they were incompatible.
Choice is bad? Most of us have figured out their line, it’s not difficult.
I'm very familiar with their product line, that doesn't change the fact that producing dozens of slightly different models doesn't serve anyone, least of which the consumer.Quote:
Originally Posted by plugboots
I still don’t get your point. As a consumer I can stay within one brand and get an ultralight binding or a heavier free ride binding and anything in between, including color choices.
If that’s confusing just go to one of their private label lines like BD or whatever, as they have narrowed the product line for you.
It’s like Costco they don’t carry every single Sharp TV they just carry a couple, BD is like Costco.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jongle
Thanks for this!
I think I solved it. Last year's R10 didn't have the spacer but as per skimo.co "Update 2022/23: DPS is now including a toe shim to increase the toe height and an attachable stomp pad to reduce the space under the heel of the boot." which means they're the RT10 EVO. There was a review on last year's R10 (https://offpistemag.com/dps-r10-tech-binding/) that didn't mention anything about a stomp pad. Voila!
This is my point. There is no need for it to be this in complicated. Besides, big varying BOMs do wonders for quality, don't they?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jongle
Remember to lube your heels prior to the new season
100% agree, ATK’s lineup would benefit from some consolidation. I’m a gear nerd (like most people reading this), and I struggle to understand the difference between the feature sets and value propositions for the RT vs. Crest lines (for example). Any other company would collapse them into a single product line. Just my opinion as an armchair product manager…Quote:
Originally Posted by Westcoaster
Tell me about this, I'm only used to lubing something else :fm:Quote:
Originally Posted by cat in january
A question that's probably been asked before:
I've got a pair of Trofeo Plus 10 sitting around that I was planning to mount on a volcano ski. Now I'm looking to put something on my new pow skis (Hyperchargers) that will probably get skied a bit harder with bigger boots, and am considering using the Trofeo rather than a binding with some heel flex compensation (Marker alpinist or Kuluar or something). The past couple years I've used Dynafit rotations and dug the smoothness of the kiss gap with flex, but the weight is overkill.
I don't get much air unless conditions are soft, and I'd say I only go "medium" fast when it's firm. I ski in the PNW and weight about 180 lbs. Do you think I'm going to blow up the Trofeos using them on my bigger skis?
From what I read, prerelease is not as bad as with Dynafits and durability is good except for a couple random toe pins falling out. Just wondering what the hive mind thinks.
Anyone know of a shop in NM (ABQ/SF, preferably) that mounts or otherwise has ATK/BD jigs?
I’m 180, ski in the PNW medium fast, only catch air on pow days, and have Trofeos on a pair of 90mm and 108 skis- maybe i can help, maybe I’ll make the decision harder.Quote:
Originally Posted by kamtron
On the skinny skis I have no problems; on the wider ones I’ve had enough startling prereleases to ski with toes locked most of the time now. I think the toe spring pressure just isn’t very high, anecdotally. I also had a toe arm pivot pin walk loose a few times and had them fixed by BD under warranty. I’ve been debating finding a pair of MTNs for the big skis, as I’ve got a better track record with them.
In short, you may not physically damage the bindings, but you might lose confidence in skiing medium hard on a wider ski.
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
I know this is the ATK thread, but this is a perfect situation to try Trab bindings because the toes use the same mount pattern (and you can drop an original Vario heelpiece right onto the ATK adjustment plate)Quote:
Originally Posted by riff
Thanks, Riff, I was hoping you'd chime in because I remember the pin issue for you. Unfortunately not what I was hoping to hear.... Kind of sounds like the experience you've had is what I've had with past Dynafit non-rotation models: they work great in predictable snow but prerelease in the deep and heavy or choppy. I want to get away from locking my toes except in extreme situations. The rotations, while heavy, did a good job with not releasing except when needed.
BTW my Trofeos have crimped pins holding the toe arms on, looks like they've upgraded the toes to deal with the press-fit pins falling out.
Anybody else have similar or different experience? I may still just try these on the big skis and see what happens.
Anecdotally I think Cy Whitling uses trofeos with a homemade stomp pad on his pow skis. He skis pretty hard and I tend to trust his decisions for binding choices
No issues with my trofeos at 190 on skis 78-100 width. I think its clear that mtns have a very high toe clamping force, i imagine the trofeos are more sensitive to U spring strength than the Mtns with respect to release.Quote:
Originally Posted by kamtron
I have trofeos on my BG108 and have had zero pre releases (180 pounds, RV 10 spring).Quote:
Originally Posted by kamtron
Usually I get those out for soft snow though and I don't really catch air when touring. They have held up fine the few times I had them in more variable/weird snow.
It does sound like the mtn probably has a stronger toe spring, I am always hearing about how people can skin in them unlocked. I think wildsnow has an article with measured spring constants or something?
Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
Yeah the post is here: https://www.wildsnow.com/18803/compa...er-g3-dynafit/
Plum, Atomic, Marker, G3 strongest springs. Trofeo (aka helio) measuring slightly above standard Dynafit.
Thanks for the other feedback.
I feel like I'm splitting hairs but it's hard to find a binding which is light, solid, accepts Dynafit ski crampons, and has >25 mm of BSL adjustment.
ATK R12/FR14/FR16, ATK C-Raider, Ski Trab Vario Adjustable, Ski Trab Vario.2, Marker Alpinist long travel all meet your criteriaQuote:
Originally Posted by kamtron
While I appreciate the sentiment, I'm definitely in "follow me at your own risk, I'm not sure where I'm going" territory with the Trofeos this year. Listen to other people in this thread over me haha!Quote:
Originally Posted by ezgzy
That said, just got back from my first real day on them with the stomp pad idea that I stole from somebody in this thread I believe? They ski good. Like, really good. But also, it's by far the least "safe" binding I've ever used, and I feel like I'm skiing them differently because I'm counting on them not releasing when I want them to. And maybe I'll blow a heel tower off the ski in a compression because I'm fat and they have no compensation? IDK. Definitely taking some calculated risks there.
Yeah I want release when I need it. I don't think I would put in a block under my heel personally.
I'm honestly surprised I haven't exploded any dynafit speed turn heels in compressions myself, because I've definitely skied those pretty hard.