Wasatch 08-09 Conditions

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Originally Posted by David Witherspoon

If anyone is interested in keeping Flagstaff/Cardiff open to bc skiing, get in touch.

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I can't see a reason not to, but I think the landowner should be involved. Maybe I'm giving the guy too much credit, but I'm guessing the reason he's up there is either a lack of understanding, or a lack of communication. It's possible that he's just a spiteful douche, but I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt. The only logical reason I could see that he would want to restrict access is potential liability for injury/death on his property, but it would clearly be unreasonable and exile-worthy for a BC skier to sue for getting him(her)self in a jam.

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Originally Posted by David Witherspoon

That troll doesn't want or deserve a clue. As for you - I thought I wasn't supposed to take you seriously?

If you've changed your mind, email me.

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I don't know that I have any specific questions, and don't really want to waste your time, but if I can come up with some, I'll sure contact you.

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Originally Posted by David Witherspoon

Were the guys at Guardsman's ripping it up just past the USFS "NO SNOWMOBILING PAST THIS SIGN" sign? As usual.

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I can't be sure, I only had my boots, but I would say that they definitely were. There were probably six or seven fully enclosed, multi-machine trailers parked at the upper end of the pass, and some serious(ly expensive) machines running around up there. I thought we had winterized africanized bees from all the noise. The road looked like the track for the snowmobile races at the X-Games, and the air smelled like gas. So much for a lovely still Wasatch evening.

Sort of surprised by how few people were out today (Sunday) given the quality of the new snow.

^^^ In any event, it would be nice to have a better understanding on what the actual property rights are. So at the risk of engaging in conspiracy asshattery, this seems like a response to the Friends of Flagstaff and everything else TeleThor described; as if the property owners are testing the waters and pushing back to see what sticks or even anticipating the lift being built and along with it the potential for increased property values.

And, I’m also curious not only about who owns the mountain tops but what kind of property taxes the land owners in the Wasatch pay. The property taxes in the valley are fairly high and it would be unfair if, what amounts to squatters claims, were paying lower tax rates on land that is considered low value—but actually contains the greatest snow on earth;)—while at the same time engaging in this sort of behavior.

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Originally Posted by TeleThor

Then the dude in camo turned out to be the Sheriff's Deputy. He said he was just making sure everyone played nice. We got added to the list. No fine, but if they catch us back there again, we'd get a fine.

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This is a chilling development. In spite of what’s been said, encroaching on another person’s property is not to be taken lightly and if they do own most of Cardiff, Days, Silver, etc. then I hope they continue to allow skiers on it.

Just trying to bring a little stoke back to this thread...corn harvest in the Ogden mountains yesterday....full trip report to follow....

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...s/DSC00442.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/n...s/DSC00514.jpg

^^^ More Stoke :yourock:
Less Drivel:nonono2:

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Originally Posted by Researcher

So lets say that property that has been in YOUR family for over 100 years happens to be in a great place for skiing. You let people recreate and play on YOUR family land because its the nice thing to do, and people who enjoy the mountains are nice, and its all good.
Then within the last 10 years- (some longer...but most less) people move to town and decide that it can't be your property. It is too nice to belong to you, and they like to ski there too much to allow you access your land. I mean these people (found) the place ten years ago (after reading the guidebook) and now kind of should decide who uses it. This person Cannot be happy sharing the land with helicopter skiers, other skiers and especially the rednecks who have the nerve to access their own property by snowmobile. These new arrivals are so upset by others using "Their" ski terrain they are absolutely rude to anyone they encounter and dedicate themselves to eradicating any kind of "different" use. (IE anyone who isn't just like them, lets say: wearing an Arcteryx jacket, Dynafits and a camera to document their rad day on the internet.)
If it was YOUR LAND... it might piss you off if someone you allowed on your land was a complete and total rude asshole to you. Yelled at you, pulled down your signs, started and supported orgainzations to make your land useless, and try to take it away. You might even get so dissapointed that you decide to close it to anyone without your permission.

Bottom Line:
You should be careful about who you are a dick to. They just might own the ground you are standing on. If people were just willing to show respect for others, share, tolerate, and be nice to eachother in the mountains (god forbid be friendly) there might not be an issue. It may however be too late, and you have no one to blame but yourselves when you need an access pass to ski Cardiac. (end rant)

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I personally think the landowners up there troll for conflict, though I would bet a number of skiers do as well. In numerous run-ins with the most well known of the landowners, my take is that he approaches you to see if you will pick a fight, but that if you are very mellow (which you should be if you are out there enjoying a day in the mountains) he quickly backs off and becomes friendly. I've looked at the maps up there, the private property does stretch annoyingly far up there. However, it is patchy. My take is that the bilers are breaking the rules by traversing onto county land, and the skiers occassionally trespass. So, when we are dicks to them about breaking the rules, they are dicks back. Personally, I'd say live and let live. Unless they come highmark near me and put me in danger (which I've never seen), I don't want to spend my free time in a pissing match.

Witherspoon or anyone else - Can someone post (or tell us how it get) an accurate detailed map showing the property lines? That would be helpful. So are people still skiing out of Cardiff regularly, or are any of you shying away due to the bullshit and risk of getting ticketed?

You might try this

http://maps.slco.org/website/assesso...wer/viewer.htm

We're getting a bit off track with all the Cardiff Fork stuff, but since people are asking, here's a link to the TTips thread. A map showing a bunch of the private parcels in Cardiff was recently posted: http://telemarktalk.com/phpBB/viewto...25662&start=45

It's close to accurate, but to quote DW: "But the important part is what that map does not show: who owns what. Some of the non-USFS parcels belong to SLC."

Forgive me for throwing in some extra pics with the observation. Today was phenomenal.

Good refreeze last night down to the trailhead at 6,800 ft. Made for a pleasant ascent up Deer Creek to Box Elder Peak. Skied north facing from 11K. First 200-300 feet had some small wind pillows. Broke about 4" down. No propagation. Below that, the snow had settled well with 6" of light, dry powder on top. Unbelievable skiing! Good all the way down to 8K. Below that it was wet and sloppy by the afternoon. Overall, a stunning spring day served up by the Wasatch.

Walking the maze of beaver ponds.
http://www.mountainalbum.com/maraude...boxelder/1.jpg

Views north.
http://www.mountainalbum.com/maraude...boxelder/2.jpg

Views south.
http://www.mountainalbum.com/maraude...boxelder/7.jpg

View down north cirque.
http://www.mountainalbum.com/maraude...boxelder/3.jpg

The goods.
http://www.mountainalbum.com/maraude...boxelder/4.jpg

More goods.
http://www.mountainalbum.com/maraude...oxelder/10.jpg

The turns.
http://www.mountainalbum.com/maraude...boxelder/9.jpg

More turns.
http://www.mountainalbum.com/maraude...boxelder/5.jpg

Stunning environment.
http://www.mountainalbum.com/maraude...boxelder/6.jpg

Storm snow totals of 20 to 36 inches expected with storm water totals between 2.5 to 3.5 inches.

:fm:

here we go again.

thank you ullr:D

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Originally Posted by marauders

Walking the maze of beaver ponds.
http://www.mountainalbum.com/maraude...boxelder/1.jpg

Views north.
http://www.mountainalbum.com/maraude...boxelder/2.jpg

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Noice Marauders!! Way to get 'er done :yourock:

Those beaver ponds were less of a maze when we were down there 1 1/2 months ago http://tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152974 ;)

Plus, looks like that summit cairn has lost a little bit of depth too; however the wind looks to have laid down as well enough to allow the NW Cirque to lift its skirt for you to pillage :fm:

Stoked you had a good day down there. :D

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Originally Posted by Xover

Noice Marauders!! Way to get 'er done :yourock:

Those beaver ponds were less of a maze when we were down there 1 1/2 months ago http://tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152974 ;)

Plus, looks like that summit cairn has lost a little bit of depth too; however the wind looks to have laid down as well enough to allow the NW Cirque to lift its skirt for you to pillage :fm:

Stoked you had a good day down there. :D

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I missed your TR when it was first posted, so thanks for the link. Those NE chutes looked incredible yesterday. What a line. That mountain has some amazing stuff all over it.

^^^Choice line Marauders. You picked the right day and were rewarded.

Quick "tramdeck ob": Snow is surprisingly good above the 9,500 ft mark, even milked some faceshots today. Still raining up to at least 8,400 ft. Anything with a Northerly component near and a little ways below ridges will break out, instantly from a ski cut. Some slabs were running several hundred feet, most only around 40-50 feet wide though and maybe 6" deep. With the heavier snow they're not quite as easy to manage if you get caught up in one but it's still doable. Main thing, obviously, know what's below. Almost got carried over a cliff band when the speed picked up more than I expected and don't want to see anyone else in the same situation.

Play safe, densities should be dropping and winds should be going down as well.

^^^ Excellent TR, Marauders!

Went up LCC early this morning ahead of the storm. Rain and Sierra Cement at lower elevations and four inches of fresh pow with a lot more coming down up high. The heavier stuff was sticking to the bonded snow underneath but the pow was sluffing off the crust AK style on steep slopes and running continuously until it hit a shallower slope angle.

Anyone interested in getting out late afternoon or tomorrow morning for some wet meadow skipping? I need to break the 18-hour work day cycle before it breaks me...

Anyone have a view on this weeks storm? Thinking about pulling the trigger on a flight out on Friday night to catch Sat and Sun? Think it will be worth it? I'm really kicking myself for not doing it two weeks ago.

Insanely good this morning at Alta. It'll be mank by Sat., save your $$

How do you think it will be tomorrow? Cold/light enough density to stay fresh?

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Originally Posted by Boissal

Anyone interested in getting out late afternoon or tomorrow morning for some wet meadow skipping? I need to break the 18-hour work day cycle before it breaks me...

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i might be down for something this afternoon. pm me if interested.

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Originally Posted by eysikal

How do you think it will be tomorrow? Cold/light enough density to stay fresh?

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Tomorrow will be better than today. It's only getting colder and will continue to snow between now and then. Saturday morning could even be good, but it will mank up fast once the sun comes out.

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Originally Posted by Wasatch_Expat

Tomorrow will be better than today. It's only getting colder and will continue to snow between now and then. Saturday morning could even be good, but it will mank up fast once the sun comes out.

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Thanks! Gotta love the late powder days!

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Originally Posted by criscam

i might be down for something this afternoon. pm me if interested.

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Looks more like tomorrow at this point, work had its way with me once again...

Just booked a frequent flyer to SLC for tomorrow, Friday through Sunday at Alta coming by myself. Anyone interesting in hooking up for a few laps?

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Originally Posted by Particle

Insanely good this morning at Alta. It'll be mank by Sat., save your $$

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Yes VERY good this morning...should be good through Friday.

Once the sun comes out i say 10 second rule....sun will only need to hit it for that long before it gets manky...

Maybe ill get out tomorrow morning.?? Dont want to puch my luck at work.