Official ATK Binding Thread

PSA - ATK Universal Freeride Spacer 20% at BD now:

https://www.blackdiamondequipment.co...eeride-spacer/

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Originally Posted by Melee

Rotate the tower either direction and step down on the brake.

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Rotate it how far? I'm a little confused because aren't you supposed to be able to use some of the risers when the heel is in the "ski" position?

Does anyone know if you can use the brake from a Helio 200 on a raider 12. From pictures the brake looks the same plus a plate. So unsure if it can be broken down and use the brake separate from the plate. Tried a search, but didn’t see an answer

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Originally Posted by cat in january

Does anyone know if you can use the brake from a Helio 200 on a raider 12. From pictures the brake looks the same plus a plate. So unsure if it can be broken down and use the brake separate from the plate. Tried a search, but didn’t see an answer

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I didn't think the Helio 200 had a brake? https://www.blackdiamondequipment.co...o-200-binding/

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Originally Posted by Spyderjon

I didn't think the Helio 200 had a brake? https://www.blackdiamondequipment.co...o-200-binding/

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I never saw a brake option for the Helio 200 (Haute Route) either. My Helio 200 from 3 or 4 years ago certainly didn't have a brake option.

... Thom

I was guessing at the model. Guess wrong eh. The brakes are at the front of a track the heel attaches to. The brakes look the same in pictures as the raider brakes just with a mounting plate

Attachment 423737

Hello guys, I'm new here. Planning to get the ATK raider bindings next season but have question on how you settle on which release value to use?
From your experience, how does the release value relates to downhill DIN numbers? Eg DIN setting you used for downhill bindings vs release value for the ATK

I've only used a shift and mtn bindings so far which have quite straightforward way of deciding.

cat in january, yep, they're the standard Raider/C-Raider/Freeraider brakes. Note that the brakes for the new Raider Evo model for 22/23 are different.

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Originally Posted by JustinLeafweaver

Hello guys, I'm new here. Planning to get the ATK raider bindings next season but have question on how you settle on which release value to use?
From your experience, how does the release value relates to downhill DIN numbers? Eg DIN setting you used for downhill bindings vs release value for the ATK

I've only used a shift and mtn bindings so far which have quite straightforward way of deciding.

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Justin, I generally land pretty close to my DIN numbers; just keep in mind that tech binders don’t have the elasticity and release characteristics that DIN binders do, and touring encourages more conservative choices for self preservation. I’m an 8 on DIN, same for tech.


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Hi All - mounting up a designated pair of touring skis this year (114 waist, 188 Length).
Coming from Hojis with Shifts.

I can't discount all the positive reviews on ATK bindings and just how light they are. I am 6 Ft, 92KG so weight isn't the number one requirement for me, but ATK sure do look great on paper. One thing I'm still trying to get my head around is lateral release on the toe. Originally, I was only considering a pair of Dynafit Rotation 14s, but all research indicates the ATKs ski vastly better with some level of elasticity.

Can someone help me understand the safety and knee safety particularly between the ATK FR14/FR16 and something like the Dynafit Rotation 14?

Apart from the convertible tech bindings (Shift, CAST, Marker Duke PT, and Pindung), the only tech bindings which release laterally at the TOE, are Vipecs and Tectons.

... Thom

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Originally Posted by rockymtn

Hi All - mounting up a designated pair of touring skis this year (114 waist, 188 Length).
Coming from Hojis with Shifts.

I can't discount all the positive reviews on ATK bindings and just how light they are. I am 6 Ft, 92KG so weight isn't the number one requirement for me, but ATK sure do look great on paper. One thing I'm still trying to get my head around is lateral release on the toe. Originally, I was only considering a pair of Dynafit Rotation 14s, but all research indicates the ATKs ski vastly better with some level of elasticity.

Can someone help me understand the safety and knee safety particularly between the ATK FR14/FR16 and something like the Dynafit Rotation 14?

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Vipecs and tectons are the only full on tech bindings that actually release at the toe, dynafits toe wiggle thing is more about keeping the bindings from releasing too easily I believe. I think there were maybe some rumors up thread of an atk with toe release in the future but it doesn't exist now.

The whole toe release being better thing is also about bone fractures not soft tissue damage, I'm not really sure what the latest is on whether toe/heel release is better for knees. Probably best to just not fall :)

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Dynafit rotations are TUV certified but the ATKs use the cam system that probably provide more consistent release at the heel. I wouldn’t expect a significant difference in reliability between the two. The Rotations have a steeper ramp angle but both bindings can easily be shimmed.

The ATK raider EVO bindings are supposed to be released in February-ish last I heard, and they claim
they will have adjustable tension in the toe piece.

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Originally Posted by Benneke10

Dynafit rotations are TUV certified but the ATKs use the cam system that probably provide more consistent release at the heel. I wouldn’t expect a significant difference in reliability between the two. The Rotations have a steeper ramp angle but both bindings can easily be shimmed.

The ATK raider EVO bindings are supposed to be released in February-ish last I heard, and they claim
they will have adjustable tension in the toe piece.

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Thanks - appreciate info.
Indecision is killing me. Looks like some trade off between weight and elasticity, with not so much difference in actual "safety". That is at least until the Raider Evo is released.

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Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un

Apart from the convertible tech bindings (Shift, CAST, Marker Duke PT, and Pindung), the only tech bindings which release laterally at the TOE, are Vipecs and Tectons.

... Thom

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And Trab TR2/Titan Vario. Dynafit Rotation bindings still release laterally from the heel, they just have a smoother pivot point at the toe. In terms of knee safety, probably the best solution is something with upward release at the toe (KneeBinding, Tyrolia Protector) which doesn't exist yet in the touring world.

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Originally Posted by fleaches

dynafits toe wiggle thing is more about keeping the bindings from releasing too easily I believe.

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Dynafit's marketing on Rotations / Radicals is pure rubbish. I guess "we finally released a binding that doesn't pre-releases at the mere sight of a bump" doesn't have the same allure.

The design has no more elasticity than any comparable tech toe, it just limits pre-releases. Just think about it - a binding that rotates around a given point has no increased elastity relative to that point. So what you get is a 600gr binding doing the job that any other brand 300-350gr binding does just as well. (The same goes for Kingpins, though the at least have a heel that brings something particular to the table).

yes, I am no Dynafit fan boy. But there is just no reason what so ever to buy Rotations. Like get ATKs or Tecton/Vipecs - done deal, best bindings in their respective segments by miles.

The trab titan vario does not release at the toe. It has lots of elasticity but it does not release. I just tried to double check. With a boot in the toe I can put lots of weight at the BOF and it does not release. Maybe at DIN 50+? The vipec is relatively easy to release by pressing at the BOF. The TR2 does, and I would love to score a cheap set since I have some compatible la sportivas.

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Originally Posted by kid-kapow

The design has no more elasticity than any comparable tech toe, it just limits pre-releases. Just think about it - a binding that rotates around a given point has no increased elastity relative to that point. So what you get is a 600gr binding doing the job that any other brand 300-350gr binding does just as well. (The same goes for Kingpins, though the at least have a heel that brings something particular to the table).

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I don't normally jump in because it doesn't make my life any easier... but in my opinion this statement is just wrong. The Toe piece is usually the limiting factor in the angle a boot can rotate before it releases from one of the 4 holding pins. The rotating toe allows the binding to use more of the the heel elasticity before the jaws open at the front. The Rotation/radical 2 has a higher impact energy absorption than the standard tech bindings.

I'm not saying which binding is safer, there are too many factors for that, but the Rotation system does increase energy absorption on a side release.

You forgot the fact that the rotation makes it a pain in the ass to actually attach the thing to your boot. So that’s nice.

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Originally Posted by Cocximus

The trab titan vario does not release at the toe. It has lots of elasticity but it does not release. I just tried to double check. With a boot in the toe I can put lots of weight at the BOF and it does not release. Maybe at DIN 50+? The vipec is relatively easy to release by pressing at the BOF. The TR2 does, and I would love to score a cheap set since I have some compatible la sportivas.

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Thanks for the clarification. I've played with the TR2 demo and assumed the Titan Vario would be functionally the same . . .

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Originally Posted by plugboots

You forgot the fact that the rotation makes it a pain in the ass to actually attach the thing to your boot. So that’s nice.

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The new ones have a centering feature when the lever is down. Dynafit marches to their own drumbeat, sometimes they get it right, sometimes not so much.

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Originally Posted by gregL

The new ones have a centering feature when the lever is down. Dynafit marches to their own drumbeat, sometimes they get it right, sometimes not so much.

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Yeah I remember that, but I still have a pretty good memory of my buddy using every cuss word in the book on a changeover once.

Thanks for the info here.
Looks like some are ok with the Dynafit Rotation and some people have major issues with it.

Waiting to see if I can find a deal on some ATK otherwise I may look at the Rotation again.

All the shops in my town in the french Pyrenees stopped drinking the dynafit rotation bindings because of usability issues

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And not only stopped drinking but also stopped selling them

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I bought Verticals so I used to think Dynafit was an amazing company

then my Rad1's blew up, Dynafit introduced the Beast and the Khion

I realized Verts and the Vulcans were just lucky mistakes

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

I bought Verticals so I used to think Dynafit was an amazing company

then my Rad1's blew up, Dynafit introduced the Beast and the Khion

I realized Verts and the Vulcans were just lucky mistakes

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^^^ QFT ^^^

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Originally Posted by kid-kapow

Dynafit's marketing on Rotations / Radicals is pure rubbish. I guess "we finally released a binding that doesn't pre-releases at the mere sight of a bump" doesn't have the same allure.

The design has no more elasticity than any comparable tech toe, it just limits pre-releases. Just think about it - a binding that rotates around a given point has no increased elastity relative to that point. So what you get is a 600gr binding doing the job that any other brand 300-350gr binding does just as well. (The same goes for Kingpins, though the at least have a heel that brings something particular to the table).

yes, I am no Dynafit fan boy. But there is just no reason what so ever to buy Rotations. Like get ATKs or Tecton/Vipecs - done deal, best bindings in their respective segments by miles.

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That's pretty much the story. I don't see Rotations entering the room, let alone being in the conversation.

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Originally Posted by Matt D

I don't normally jump in because it doesn't make my life any easier... but in my opinion this statement is just wrong. The Toe piece is usually the limiting factor in the angle a boot can rotate before it releases from one of the 4 holding pins. The rotating toe allows the binding to use more of the the heel elasticity before the jaws open at the front. The Rotation/radical 2 has a higher impact energy absorption than the standard tech bindings.

I'm not saying which binding is safer, there are too many factors for that, but the Rotation system does increase energy absorption on a side release.

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In fairness to the design concept behind the Rotations (not that this would convince me to by them), they're arguing for retention by virtue of the pins not spreading as the boot heel rotates laterally. Taken on it's own, this makes sense, and it might (over time) reduce wear in the boot's toe fittings.

With tech heels, the lateral elasticity seems to be the limit, in the sense that the anecdotal comments point toward stiffer toe springs working just plain fine, with 300g less weight and a whole lot less complexity.

Stated another way, if tech heels had more lateral elasticity, then the heel could rotate enough (in a non-release situation) so that the toe wings spread to the point where even stiff jaws would pop out of the toe sockets.

... Thom

I forgot about the Hoji debacle

I duno who at Dynafit thot it would be smart to put a shark nose on a freeride boot but it meant the new boot didnt fit a whole shwack of bindings in the focus group the boot was designed for, I dunno if Hoji had a word with Dynafit or what ?

They were probably trying to encourage skiers to switch to tech toe bindings, and the more efficient pivot point on the speed nose is real

That ^^ may be but you don't try to make the consumer buy your product cuz its good for them, if you are a company trying to sell a boot to a group of people who have multiple pairs of skis AND don't forget the crampons that need to at least take a boot with an AT sole

the end loser will just take a pass even if they liked the boot fit

I think Shimano tried that same idea with rapid rise which failed twice

FYI, the 2023 raider evos are available now on telemark pyrnees, if anyone is interested in being an early adopter

They are on the site but you can’t purchase them yet

Anyone have feedback on the Kuluar yet? Despite the atrociously butchered name (listen to the Blister podcast with the ATK guy about that, hilariously harebrained way to stay away from using the French word), it ticks several boxes for a buddy who has been dragging feet for 3 seasons to get new bindings. Can't find anything wrong with them on paper, if I weren't so content with my Superlites and completely adverse to the ATK hype I'd probably buy a pair just because...

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Originally Posted by ezgzy

FYI, the 2023 raider evos are available now on telemark pyrnees, if anyone is interested in being an early adopter

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Here's ATK's page on the 15 Evo. Not much on the toe (and they haven't published the manual yet):

https://www.atkbindings.com/en/produ...ee-touring-en/

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Originally Posted by Boissal

Anyone have feedback on the Kuluar yet? ...

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So, it's an Haute Route, with a heel base plate assembly that accommodates brakes?

... Thom

The Kuluar is a fine binding but hasn't made a huge splash because it lacks the two features that make ATK special these days: the integrated freeride spacer and the cam system heelpiece. Another consideration is the ~12mm of ramp but you can shim the toes pretty easily to lower that if you want.

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Originally Posted by Benneke10

The Kuluar is a fine binding but hasn't made a huge splash because it lacks the two features that make ATK special these days: the integrated freeride spacer and the cam system heelpiece. Another consideration is the ~12mm of ramp but you can shim the toes pretty easily to lower that if you want.

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Thanks. Buddy is on ancient bindings with a higher pin delta (+16 I think) and he wouldn't know what a freeride spacer is if I showed him one. Same for the fancy cam system. When you skis on 15 yeah old tech with your toes locked and send it harder than anyone I can think of while weighting about 120 lbs, your standard are a bit loose I guess.

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Originally Posted by Benneke10

All of the Raiders/Freeraiders have the same toe this year, which has ~11mm ramp in stock configuration. The FR16, however, includes the new AL12 shim stock, which raises the toe height 4mm and is optional. The other bindings do not include the shim stock but you can buy it aftermarket https://www.haganskimountaineering.c...2-pro-toe-shim

I linked the Hagan site since they are charging $40 but currently out of stock. Other sites are charging $70 for the shim which is nuts. The shim is compatible with all Raider and C-Raider toe pieces (and the C-Crest, available in Yurp).

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shims are available at Hagan

Skimo, Backcountry (1 left) and Moosejaw all have them available for $40 a pair.

Also, for anyone considering the new Evo series, you will need a new freeride spacer for the Evo 11s and Evo 13s (the 15s come with). It is the new AL13 spacer, not the old AL09.

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Originally Posted by Beder

shims are available at Hagan

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ATK Rolling in U-springs feature - really makes any practical difference or just kind of a gimmick?

They said: ATK "Rolling in System U-spring promises easier use, better consistency, and improved longevity compared to traditional U-springs".
So "improved longevity" as a main concern, longevity for traditional U-springs (longevity of boot heel insert and U-spring itself) - is a real world issue?

I'm looking on lightish ~DIN 8-10 heels (like Trofeo) for high mountain setup to franken it with Dynafit Speed Turn toes, but never actually used U-spring type heels.

You do have to replace them from time to time to have consistent vertical release. Rolling pins obviate (or mitigate?) this need.

There is some concern that steel pins can wear down the heel fitting on your boot, which, depending on construction will require you to replace either the fitting or perhaps even the boot. I haven't seen this myself, but my only U spring bindings use Ti springs, which won't wear down steel heel fittings.