Freeride World Tour

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Originally Posted by gaijin

I was pissed off at Heitz during his 100mph tour. And Aymar is just recycling that.

Go home. This isn't what we're doing here. Your style doesn't work in the professional, competitive scene where we have to consider safety.

I hope I don't see Aymar ski again in a comp. Which is tragic. I said the same of Heitz. You guys are just going straight until you die. Go home.

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He’d already confirmed a complete lack of judgement at Baqueira Beret, and should have been left to some obscure corner of the internet. He is what he is, and is almost certainly suffering from some variety of post concussion syndrome, but bringing him back as a wildcard on the Bec is irresponsible.

I also have an issue with the judging of control issues, IMO both Tester and Chabloz should have been docked, otherwise they’re rewarding the sort of dice rolling that leads to Navarro(Regner-Ericsson for the win). Chasing ratings through carnage is unethical, and not a sustainable business model for the FWT.

anyone have a link to a replay that does not get flagged by adblocker???

>can't watch the official replay at work anymore:(

/ one of the links earlier this year was viewable on the work computer; just not the official freeride homepage replay with the rider highlight icons.

EDiT*nevermind..the replay that pops on tgr header page is the one that works w adblocker;)

I thought Olivia McNeill was underscored - not enough points for her creative line choice. Still made the podium at least.

Tester went HUUUGE and Chabloz's run was sick hitting those two airs back to back at the bottom. Bummer Turdell couldn't hold it together because where he threw that three right into the chute was absolutely nasty.

Aymar... man... I hope he's okay but right when he went over into that zone I started holding my breath and wanted to cover my eyes. Not the conditions to try something like that. I respect the balls that it takes but I don't want to see it. If he had somehow pulled it off that probably would have been the first perfect 100 score in FWT history, but it's just not worth the risk.

Loved how Moga went for the front flip at the bottom - that's a more responsible way to do something cool / nutty. He already had such a nice run going before that.

He's lucky as hell...

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Wow. You guys know this is a big mountain comp with freestyle aspects, not a freestyle comp where folks get chastised for skiing big lines.

Big lines do not equal stupidity.

There was no Chance in hell of Holding that line together in those conditions.
He would have had a Chance at the mammoth venue, but not on the bec.

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Originally Posted by roQer

Shouldn’t happen with a decent helmet. Wonder what happened. Did she lost her helmet or something?

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You’re daft. A ski helmet offers very little protection from significant hard impact. Get a DOT/Snell certified full face helmet if you want to avoid a skull fx


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

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Originally Posted by powdork

Wow. You guys know this is a big mountain comp with freestyle aspects, not a freestyle comp where folks get chastised for skiing big lines.

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I think the point is most of us saw his line choice (in those conditions) as reckless. No way in hell was he going to shut that down after the third drop unless it was super soft.

Look at this sequence and the snow for his landings... zero chance with the speed and steepness involved - you'd need a foot or more of powder to have any chance of checking speed after the second drop and same for the landing on the third. Still definitely one of the crazier skier line attempts I've ever seen. I mean, holy shit.

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Originally Posted by subtle plague

I like navarro and Heitz, but only in good conditions where you don't die if you make a mistake.

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The conditions don't really matter when you make a mistake. The rocks are exactly as hard in all conditions. As it is both Navarro and Heitz are doing well (I had to go check and make sure Heitz didn't die somehow they way you're all going on).

Have you guys watched South Lines? Navarro is always on the knife's edge between life and death. For him, that's what works and it's what has powered his career.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_hrvsft_gY

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Originally Posted by TahoeJ

I think the point is most of us saw his line choice (in those conditions) as reckless. No way in hell was he going to shut that down after the third drop unless it was super soft.

Look at this sequence and the snow for his landings... zero chance with the speed and steepness involved - you'd need a foot or more of powder to have any chance of checking speed after the second drop and same for the landing on the third. Still definitely one of the crazier skier line attempts I've ever seen. I mean, holy shit.

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He wasn't going to slow down he was taking it to the bottom just like the other events he did. Just like Gerritzen did after she missed her opportunity to shut it down.

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Originally Posted by powdork

The conditions don't really matter when you make a mistake. The rocks are exactly as hard in all conditions. ]

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Uhm it's a giant difference what you tomhawk down. Or how you Lose speed or not if you mess up a Landing? He had done about approximately 52 tomahawks before hitting that wall which would pronably have been a spine in better conditions.

Navarro is a great skier who’s mostly terrible at big mtn comps. There’s just something off about his ability to read the terrain/conditions and/or his understanding the limits of his abilities. Or maybe he doesn’t fully get that being in control is a huge part of big mtn skiing? Who knows.

I’d say the same if he was out there throwing freestyle tricks he couldn’t stick and getting broken that way too.

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Originally Posted by subtle plague

Uhm it's a giant difference what you tomhawk down. Or how you Lose speed or not if you mess up a Landing? He had done about approximately 52 tomahawks before hitting that wall which would pronably have been a spine in better conditions.

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He did zero tomahaks, but did do about 4 spins. It could have been a spine in different conditions. But if they just got 18" of snow the conditions would have been great and it would have still been a rock.

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Originally Posted by kathleenturneroverdrive

Navarro is a great skier who’s mostly terrible at big mtn comps. There’s just something off about his ability to read the terrain/conditions and/or his understanding the limits of his abilities. Or maybe he doesn’t fully get that being in control is a huge part of big mtn skiing? Who knows.

I’d say the same if he was out there throwing freestyle tricks he couldn’t stick and getting broken that way too.

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He's not mostly terrible. He stood on the podium in Verbier last year and has made to to Verbier twice. You can't be terrible and succeed at the sport's highest echelon. He simply has a high risk/reward ratio. He's not always gonna make it down but when he does he is usually going to score well.

Jess Hotter crashed badly three times this season and she's crowned the champion.

"Wow. You guys know this is a big mountain comp with freestyle aspects, not a freestyle comp where folks get chastised for skiing big lines."

Thank you, Powdork.

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Originally Posted by powdork

He's not mostly terrible. He stood on the podium in Verbier last year and has made to to Verbier twice. You can't be terrible and succeed at the sport's highest echelon. He simply has a high risk/reward ratio. He's not always gonna make it down but when he does he is usually going to score well.

Jess Hotter crashed badly three times this season and she's crowned the champion.

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You’re confusing being a good skier with a good competitor.

A good skier can always eke out a comp podium here and there by sticking a poorly chosen line that nearly breaks them.

A good competitor is rarely injured, has a decade+ long career, and might win the whole FWT a few times. Navarro seemed to have this side figured out in Andorra, but looks like that was maybe just a fluke.

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Originally Posted by ddraver

Come ooooooon Hedwig!!

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:frown::frown::frown:

So close...

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Originally Posted by kathleenturneroverdrive

Navarro is a great skier who’s mostly terrible at big mtn comps. There’s just something off about his ability to read the terrain/conditions and/or his understanding the limits of his abilities. Or maybe he doesn’t fully get that being in control is a huge part of big mtn skiing? Who knows.

I’d say the same if he was out there throwing freestyle tricks he couldn’t stick and getting broken that way too.

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I do wonder if his inability to keep up with the freestyle aspect that the younger crowd on the tour incorporates so well now actually pushes him towards even more extreme and risky big mountain lines in order to try to still be able to stand out from the crowd and get wins. It's a risky strategy. On the other hand he has always just kind of skied with that shit or bust mentality.

His two crashes this year are sobering though - I really don't want to see anyone die and participants repeatedly escaping relatively unscathed from huge gnarly crashes shouldn't numb us to the ultimate risk that ever present out there.

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Originally Posted by powdork

He did zero tomahaks, but did do about 4 spins. It could have been a spine in different conditions. But if they just got 18" of snow the conditions would have been great and it would have still been a rock.

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There's always a risk of hitting rocks but it's inarguable that firmer conditions reduce already fine margins. You tend to fall further and faster on hard snow compared to deep pow. It's also harder/less likely that you'll be able to dump a little speed on big cliff landings and between features so the snow conditions absolutely play into the risk factor of bigger, more exposed lines.

I agree but that applies to everyone on the face for the whole comp. I was more referring to Navarro’s style of skiing, which applies to many (Barkered, Malakov , Heitz, Bimboes,etc) where you’re already bringing the super high speeds around the rocks. And it doesn’t matter too much how much snow there is because they are always going to go where the most rocks are cause that’s where the points (and fun) are.

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Mama always told me not to look into the eye's of the sun
But, mama, that's where the fun is

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Originally Posted by gaijin

Super blown away at Maxime's season. Who is this guy? He just schooled the entire sport.

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I could not disagree more.

Sure, he's been on a run this year, but I've found that like with Arianna he is getting over-scored for freestyle moves in what is a freeride comp.

Compare his and Turdell's lines in Kicking Horse. Turdell hits the backie as a first male to hit that part, does novels lines throughout and like Max Palm has a much better balance between tricks and big mountain chops. 3rd....

Today Carl Regner's run should have landed him on the top step. His controll issue when landing the last cliff was smaller than both Ross' and Max', and his entire line is more exposed and technical - yet has the same flow as the other two. I kinda wonder if the angle the judges saw the three runs in was what ultimately decided it. Dissapointing judging to say the least, though I am perhaps more annoyed with myself being annoyed at poor judging than the judging itself.

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Originally Posted by kootenayskier

I also have an issue with the judging of control issues, IMO both Tester and Chabloz should have been docked, otherwise they’re rewarding the sort of dice rolling that leads to Navarro(Regner-Ericsson for the win).

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The judging has slanted way too far towards freestyle / doing tricks imho (it has been a major issue in the female ski category for years, where tiny, sloppy 3s score better than dropping massive cliffs with anything but a 110% perfect landing), leading purist to attempt lines the / Aymarro should not - high risk / high reward thinking notwithstanding - in order to be anything remotely close to competitive. Again, Reine would have eeeked out Aymarro on the podium in Verbier if he had landed his extra credit backie. Same line, just way more composure. His attempt today turned the nob to 11, and then some. He should not have tried it, though scoring a massive "triple"(esque) to straitline would have been hard if pulled off. Really hard.

And yes, they should def stop letting wildcard placements on the day affect the scoring towards the overall imho.

Hmm. Jess Hotter won this year with big ass straight drops mostly (she consistently went bigger than the other ladies) and less freestyle so I'm not sure I agree with that assessment. I can see it for the men, however, but it's worth noting that tricks aside Maxime still charged down that face and his line would have been solid just with straight hits. He did tricks but he also went huge in the process.

Judges may be overcounting the freestyle but some of you are undercounting it a bit too. Oh, that was huge but meh, he did a backflip instead of a straight air. ;-) Most of the freestyle-ish winning lines this year included tricks that were being absolutely stomped on the landing.

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Originally Posted by TahoeJ

Hmm. Jess Hotter won this year with big ass straight drops mostly (she consistently went bigger than the other ladies) and less freestyle so I'm not sure I agree with that assessment.

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The critique was regarding the scoring of Arianna Tricomi in years past, not Jess this year.

If you are in doubt, go back and watch how the judges scored Arianna vs say Jackie Paaso and Jacqueline Pollard the last few years. We are not talking big flips that were stomped like Hedvig in Japan and other riders too, but tiny 3s uphill / cross court off windlips that made an average run amazing all of a sudden. I am not dissing Arianna and her skiing here - I am dissing the judges.

just btw - I love the ski women category. It is really competitive, gets better and better, and is way more relatable. Not like ski men that is just another sport than what I can ever hope to do on skis :) Not that I am at ski women level either, but it is a bit closer to something I can fool myself into thinking that I might do :)

FWT is kind of going in the direction of red bull rampage. What started out as a big mountain discipline has become a big mountain freestyle event. Big freestyle tricks required to win.

But if that is what the competitors want to do, and that’s what is cutting edge, it’s hard to shut it down. Clearly these guys (and girls) who can do 3’s and flips and straight line entire venues are at the cutting edge of what is possible. But as an old man I wonder if this is sustainable.

Back in the giant huck days of free ski comps (early 2000’s) there was plenty of competitors willing to take massive airs into questionable landings. I remember watching the Blackcomb comp in Diamond/Ruby that turned into a medivac event. Multiple competitors getting totally mangled and flown out because the judging at the time seemed to reward massive airtime regardless of landing the air or not. Whistler/Blackcomb hasn’t hosted a major free ski event since. The optics were terrible. Do the organizers need to save these competitors from themselves? Massive deductions for loss of control has curbed the huck and pray in the junior categories. I love to see the cutting edge of what’s possible, but some of the tomahawks this year were pretty wild.

But if Aymar had stomped that run I’d be here declaring him a ski god and calling it a 100 point run. Tough calls all around. I’m glad to be on the sidelines on this one.

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Originally Posted by Clownshoe

FWT is kind of going in the direction of red bull rampage. What started out as a big mountain discipline has become a big mountain freestyle event. Big freestyle tricks required to win.

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I also think that's just a reflection of where skiing has gone. Ski around any resort with big mountain terrain and youth programmes and everyone from the kids to the coaches is tricking cliffs and natural hits.