ON3P SKIS Discussion

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Originally Posted by Quandary

Another question for Scott, I have yet to mount my 19/20 Woodsman 116s, does this mean that it is your suggestion that I should move my mount point back .75cm from the notch?

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I'm completely biased by having already mounted my 2019 WM96s on the 2019 line with STH2s, but with 7.5mm being debated, doesn't a Solly rather than a P14/18 binding (see earlier posts about binding heel piece base length implications for tail length) functionally move the boot center back by extending the heel component of the boot/binding interface more than the toe component? I'm actually starting to think whether I should mount more center-mounted skis like the Jeffrey with STH2s for adjustability, while mounting more directional skis with a pivot binding so that they're truer to the manufacturer recommendations about where a ski should be mounted.

And, yes, overthinking - but isn't that the whole point of TGR tech-talk?

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Originally Posted by Orthoski

7.5mm

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I didn’t get the impression there was a change in mount point for existing models. I read it as the sidecut changed for the upcoming 116 model, which thus changed the mount point for that model.

"minor sidecut tweak"

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Originally Posted by Quandary

"minor sidecut tweak"

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Yes. Makes sense.

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Originally Posted by CascadeLuke

Great update Scott. Both news wise and thoughtful product line adjustments.
Do I read between the lines- any expectation the CD will drop in weight with new tour core? Maybe land 2350 ish?

ETA reread your post and see I was more inferring and hopeful than comprehending. Crossed up the new layup process for just stock and not across the line.. modified question

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We wanted to keep them really damp so kept the 100% bamboo core. We did a run of custom topped CD already that avg weight came in 2400, which I mean....if we're talking this heavy an extra 50 grams is a bit whatever. We'll kick the tires on some different options for 2022 but a lot of other models took up our attention this year. With a low volume model like the CD, you can always email us and ask us to pick a pair that is on the lighter side of average.

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Originally Posted by grinch

They say "prototype" on them, whatever that means.

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90% of the time just means it was made with a generic topsheet that is not size specific. SIA sample skis, demos, etc. Usually by the time graphic is ready ski design is done.

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Originally Posted by Quandary

Another question for Scott, I have yet to mount my 19/20 Woodsman 116s, does this mean that it is your suggestion that I should move my mount point back .75cm from the notch?

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Originally Posted by Joey311

I was wondering the same thing about my new WM96.

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Not necessarily. With a mount change comes a change to sidecut, core profile, binding mat...so your Woodsman are designed to be skied at that recommended line. The vast majority of people skied them there this past season. We wanted to shorten the tail just slightly and felt - at their current stiffness - a bit more tip to drive would be better compared to a bit more playfulness/balance, hence the change. 0.75cm isn't a huge change here, so I wouldn't stress about it to much. If you like a more directional ski, move it back. If not, stick where it is.

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Originally Posted by iggyskier

We wanted to keep them really damp so kept the 100% bamboo core. We did a run of custom topped CD already that avg weight came in 2400, which I mean....if we're talking this heavy an extra 50 grams is a bit whatever. We'll kick the tires on some different options for 2022 but a lot of other models took up our attention this year. With a low volume model like the CD, you can always email us and ask us to pick a pair that is on the lighter side of average.

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That makes sense - good suggestion. Look forward to the new art drop and custom sale.

And now for the 20/21 lineup. Hope the link works: http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=00199rBr...jiBeV7lSd8GQ==

Big news from the Gear:30 podcast!

Of course I would buy the Billy Goat for pow touring right before they release the actual Tour and 50/50 edition lmao

Also Scott sounds burned out :( You'd think announcing the next lineup with all these changes would be exciting stuff. I hope ya taking care of yourself man.

Ohh... a 50/50 Billygoat 108 sounds mighty interesting. Also, seems like the tour core might end up quite a bit lighter than I thought! Very exciting times. Scott, you'll be seeing some of my money this fall for sure. :D

Stoked for the touring lineup (and predicted weights!) - been waiting many moons for this! Can't wait to get on a pair and walk up some stuff.

Looks like 184 Billygoat 108 Tour will be sub 1800g or so... ON3P will be getting some of my stimulus money when they start custom orders. Really stoked Scott!

Shit thats sweet. Cuts out any thinking on that. Now hope the cad claws back a bit on the usd before fall

Sent from my SM-G950W using TGR Forums mobile app

Really excited about a tour woodsman 108 over here. In house cores is super cool, even if Scott don't sound super stoked.

I wore my ON3P shirt today, good luck I guess.

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Originally Posted by eSock

Big news from the Gear:30 podcast!

Of course I would buy the Billy Goat for pow touring right before they release the actual Tour and 50/50 edition lmao

Also Scott sounds burned out :( You'd think announcing the next lineup with all these changes would be exciting stuff. I hope ya taking care of yourself man.

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For what it is worth, I think I'm usually pretty level & matter of fact (or boring) on these things. I'm just not a rah-rah person. Also Jonathan and I talk outside of these podcasts, so a bit hard to get in a sales/marketing type mood here (though I know I likely should). It is not unspoken between Jonathan and I that he thinks I need some caffeine before we talk.

For full transparency, though, if I did sound tired (I never listen to these) - that is because, on top of my normal day to day, I've been basically a cat nurse about 4-5 hours/day the last two months working to stabilize/comfort one of my cats with hyperthyroid and failing kidneys (to a modicum of success thus far at least). I have a whole treatment protocol every morning/evening (fluids, oral meds, syringe feeding + time to monitor his breathing/heart) and while we've started seeing marked improvements over the past 2-3 weeks, it is chewing up a lot of my time & energy. So that + dealing with Covid + trying to get new line all ready to launch definitely has me running on pretty limited sleep right now. I'm hanging in, though, so thanks for the positive thoughts. Pretty important time to make sure we're all taking care of ourselves as best we can.

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Originally Posted by Adrgha

Ohh... a 50/50 Billygoat 108 sounds mighty interesting. Also, seems like the tour core might end up quite a bit lighter than I thought! Very exciting times. Scott, you'll be seeing some of my money this fall for sure. :D

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I really don't follow the weights of other brands much (should probably check those out), still seems like we'll be on the heavier end of things, but internally we're all really happy on the balance of weight and stability. We had a few lighter core variants we were also testing that didn't include bamboo, but we were pretty dead set to make bamboo work.

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Originally Posted by bigdeaner14

Stoked for the touring lineup (and predicted weights!) - been waiting many moons for this! Can't wait to get on a pair and walk up some stuff.

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Originally Posted by Muggydude

Looks like 184 Billygoat 108 Tour will be sub 1800g or so... ON3P will be getting some of my stimulus money when they start custom orders. Really stoked Scott!

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As soon as we crank out a few more pairs to up our data set will post weights. Just a bit behind there from Covid.

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Originally Posted by snowaddict91

Really excited about a tour woodsman 108 over here. In house cores is super cool, even if Scott don't sound super stoked.

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I probably sounded more bummed than I am. Call it more just laughing at how things work out. Just some context - but we've been building these proto cores in house for about 3 years, and there has been a lot of discussion with more than a few suppliers about them. You don't bring a process in house unless there is inherent value in doing so (and core blanks aren't exactly a super complex process). Until maybe mid March, we literally never had a serious conversation about bringing them in house (over the past 2-3 years), so for us to decide to start building production cores ourselves would have proven quite the shock to everyone here from even 3 months ago.

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Originally Posted by iggyskier

I really don't follow the weights of other brands much (should probably check those out), still seems like we'll be on the heavier end of things, but internally we're all really happy on the balance of weight and stability. We had a few lighter core variants we were also testing that didn't include bamboo, but we were pretty dead set to make bamboo work.

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At sub 1800 grams for a 184 cm 108 mm type ski, you're right in there with the other brands (my 184 Wildcat 108 tours are 1750 grams). Personally, I wouldn't want this type of ski to be any lighter.

Am I in the ballpark assuming that 50/50 will add around 150 grams on top of the new tour layup?

Edit: And best of luck with your cat. My late cat also had kidney issues..

Other than your rather understandable frustration regarding Covid-19, you sounded more or less the same as last year imho Iggy. Sad to hear that your feline companion is a bit worse for wear. I hope its state improves and it def sounds like it is in capable hands!

As for the touring line that you will offer for 2021 - I think it sounds like a 100% bulls eye wrt what people have been wanting; ON3P's awesome shapes in a lighter, yet still bombproof construction. The wider offerings is def in my sweet spot wrt weight - aka enough mass to ski great for full on charging, yet light enough to do big days (aka the quiver slot where I currently use Völkl V-Werks Katana).

Hell, I've heard that for instance Völkl sell a lot of their touring skis - like their BMT line - statesides to people who want a lighter ski with full on alpine bindings for resort use. As such, I would not be terribly surprised if that could be a rather substantial segment for you as well. Hell #2, it could be that the other 50/50 option (thinner edge/base and standard core/lay up) could be what those people are looking for - I dunno.

I guess we should cue some differing opinions wrt the shedding of weight in the time to come though. :) I for one really like the idea of optimizing the construction wrt build integrity / sturdiness and ride feel first&second, with weight as a close third. A full on bamboo construction with extra thick edges and bases will luckily never be feather weight (at least within ON3P's performance envelope), but still strike a good compromise wrt mass vs lightness. I think the new construction sounds terrific.

I can't wait to see the rest of the line up and what graphics are in store. I have yet to decide if any new skis will join my quiver, but if so it will only be to "merge" several skis into a single ski. A wood102ti could be such a ski. :)

I've been checked out for a while. So the skinny goat is coming in a tour layup? I still miss my custom skinny goats from several years back and the friend I gave them to due to mounting hole issues loves them.

Iggy....
How does the new Wren 102 compare to the old 102, with regard to geometry, flex etc?

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Originally Posted by TahoeJ

I've been checked out for a while. So the skinny goat is coming in a tour layup? I still miss my custom skinny goats from several years back and the friend I gave them to due to mounting hole issues loves them.

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Sounds like stock in tour layup, custom in any layup.

Standard layup on that sounds like a Goldilocks ski to me...will be ordering.

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Originally Posted by sf

Iggy....
How does the new Wren 102 compare to the old 102, with regard to geometry, flex etc?

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From what he said in the podcast, it’ll be more similar to the current wren than the old 102. They took last year’s 96/108 wren ti, merged them at 102mm and increased taper to help it initiate turns on firm snow.

The wren 110 “pro” sounds like essentially the new version of the old 102/114 with the flat tail and ti laminate. Really looking forward to checking out that ski.

Me too. The 110 pro sounds awesome.

I’m a little worried about the skis getting lighter as I think ON3P has always been in a sweet spot for weight (and most of my on3ps are on the heavy side of the stated weights too), but I will reserve judgment until I ski them.

The custom milling of the cores is really cool too. The carbon layup changes always changed the ski feel for me so really excited to be able to play with stiffness without changing that.

I'm stoked by ON3P's getting lighter, just like Moment has done in recent years (I know Scott and Luke are friends so maybe not a coincidence?). I've always loved the pop of those bamboo cores but the swing weight in tight / steep spaces isn't always optimal, especially later in the day when you're tired and/or early in the season when your legs aren't in ski shape yet.

The Wren 114 is still my favorite resort ski of all time, curious about the Wren 110 Pro still worried about the 186 length, I have had zero complaints with the 114 for the 189 length.

I think I would likely choose something else from the new line to add a little more diversity to the quiver. I still have not skied a Billy Goat which is seems like the more logical addition. Or one of the 102 under foot variations. Excited to see the topsheets!

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Originally Posted by Tailwind

The Wren 114 is still my favorite resort ski of all time, curious about the Wren 110 Pro still worried about the 186 length, I have had zero complaints with the 114 for the 189 length.

I think I would likely choose something else from the new line to add a little more diversity to the quiver. I still have not skied a Billy Goat which is seems like the more logical addition. Or one of the 102 under foot variations. Excited to see the topsheets!

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If the charger wren is your favorite, SuperGoat or go home. IMHO