Ukraine

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Originally Posted by Benny Profane

Whoops. I guess the Capricorn One scenario didnt work out.

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That’s actually a decent movie.

Good utuber leaving kyiv

https://youtu.be/hzBxFH_hEwA


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Originally Posted by Summit

There is more to NATO and US policy than the text of Article 5.

I suggest this as the relevant summary in USAF nuclear doctrine as the briefest you'll find on Extended Nuclear Deterrence, which is the policy and concept at hand.

This concept has been present and stabilizing for over 60 years. The relevant NATO policy discussion is here.

"The supreme guarantee of the security of the Allies is provided by the strategic nuclear forces of the Alliance, particularly those of the United States"

However, the source of truth is the US Nuclear Posture Review. 2018 is the latest, but there is currently one underway that was started late last year which will critically address the sudden and massive Chinese nuclear forces expansion.

"Assurance of Allies and Partners

The United States has formal extended deterrence commitments that assure European, Asian, and Pacific allies. Assurance is a common goal based on collaboration with allies and partners to deter or defeat the threats we face. No country should doubt the strength of our extended deterrence commitments or the strength of U.S. and allied capabilities to deter, and if necessary defeat, any potential adversary’s nuclear or nonnuclear aggression. In many cases, effectively assuring allies and partners depends on their confidence in the credibility of U.S. extended nuclear deterrence"

Attend pages 54-55 in that PDF for a discussion of Russia and deterring limited nuclear strikes by Russia in the "escalate to deescalate" role, but note that it is most specifically referring to use against US and protected allies subject to extended deterrence like NATO which is covered on pages 58-60. NPRs are public so that our clear stance is visible to friend and foe alike.

"Effective deterrence is the foundation for effective assurance. Allies under the U.S. nuclear umbrella, and potential adversaries, should not doubt our extended deterrence commitments or our ability and willingness to fulfill them."

Assurances cannot and do not waver here. This is nothing new. The certitude of our promises are the cornerstone of deterring aggression.

If you have two hours to kill, here is a 2019 discussion of extended nuclear deterrence.

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Thank you summit. I will scare myself after my swim.


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Originally Posted by ötzi

Is the Ukrainian air force still a thing? I haven't heard a word about them since the "Ghost of Kyiv" business. Just wondering.

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Losses are mounting but the Ukrainian air force is still a thing. NATO also has AWACS planes flying over Poland supplying info to the Ukrainian military and American volunteers are on the ground coordinating with the Ukrainian air force. Poland and other former eastern block members are sending MIGS, although it might take time for Ukrainian pilots to get up to speed. The Ukrainians also have armed drones.

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Originally Posted by Vt-Freeheel

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I've seen that dude once or twice before. Quite a sight to behold. I used to come across the AN-124 more tho. Or as we called it, the C-5ski. Russian pilots actually invited us on board for a tour and it was fascinating to say the least. Although built around the same time as the C-5 and kinda resembled it in typical commie copycat fashion (+ a few inches longer so they could brag theirs was bigger), it felt more like it was out of the WWII era. Ancient avionics, a wooden cargo floor, a non-pressurized cargo compartment, the list goes on. Really was a great example of how far ahead of the Russians we ACTUALLY were in the 60s/70s. On the outside, they looked plenty impressive. On the inside, they were total junk. Those aircrews do make the most of them though, I'll give em that.

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Originally Posted by MultiVerse

..Poland and other former eastern block members are sending MIGS, although it might take time for Ukrainian pilots to get up to speed.

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Thanks for the info. Just to clarify, from the article, it appears that the Ukrainians could pretty much jump in and fly Mig and Sukhoi aircraft, but it would take them time to get up to speed on other aircraft they're not trained on such as F-16's (not surprisingly).

One of those massive Antonovs lands at SeaTac every July, gets filled with Rainier cherries, and fly’s back to Russia. I wonder if we will see it this year?


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IRL I get asked why Israel is sitting on the fence. https://www.timesofisrael.com/why-is...n-ukraine/amp/

I assume Biden is pressuring Israel to provide significant cyber war resources. Seems like a no brainer, along with the blankets and shit.

I wanted to wake up to hear that there was peace in Ukraine, that Putin had "retired to his Dacha," and Russia wanted to partner with the West instead of being adversaries.

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Originally Posted by nickwm21

One of those massive Antonovs lands at SeaTac every July, gets filled with Rainier cherries, and fly’s back to Russia. I wonder if we will see it this year?


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So Chekhov was full of shit then?

For those involved in the водка wars, don't forget that Ukraine puts out some fabulous spirits. My go to for vodka and brandy is Shevkoff. While they make a great vodka and all, their brandy is absolutely off the chain. Support Ukrainian brands! There are many if you actually take a closer look next time you browse the aisles.

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Originally Posted by frorider

IRL I get asked why Israel is sitting on the fence. https://www.timesofisrael.com/why-is...n-ukraine/amp/

I assume Biden is pressuring Israel to provide significant cyber war resources. Seems like a no brainer, along with the blankets and shit.

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They wouldn't even sell Pegasus to Ukraine a couple of years ago despite giving it to journalist murdering regimes because they didn't want to piss off Russia. Lethal aid would jeopardize their missions in Syria, so I don't see it happening.

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Originally Posted by ötzi

Thanks for the info. Just to clarify, from the article, it appears that the Ukrainians could pretty much jump in and fly Mig and Sukhoi aircraft, but it would take them time to get up to speed on other aircraft they're not trained on such as F-16's (not surprisingly).

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To add, military and humanitarian supplies are still getting flown in to airfields in western Ukraine. Russia does not control the airspace. There are also few reports of Russian aircraft directly supporting troops in contact with Ukrainian infantry. That might be a comms issue, poor training, logistics due to a lack of forward bases, or the fact that Ukraine has MANPADS and fighter jets.

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Originally Posted by nickwm21

One of those massive Antonovs lands at SeaTac every July, gets filled with Rainier cherries, and fly’s back to Russia. I wonder if we will see it this year?


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There was only one.

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Originally Posted by Benny Profane

https://twitter.com/ItsDeanBlundell/...pLevHEn-jtxS3g

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Posted that yesterday

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Originally Posted by Cono Este

Thank you summit. I will scare myself after my swim.


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I have a copy of Threads (TV Movie 1984) on DVD if you, or anyone else, want to borrow it. It’s the most terrifying movie of all time and makes one convinced that nukes are never an option.

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Originally Posted by Summit

I wanted to wake up to hear that there was peace in Ukraine, that Putin had "retired to his Dacha," and Russia wanted to partner with the West instead of being adversaries.

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Me too.

As was mentioned up thread, the US and EU should offer asylum and a path to citizenship to any deserting Russian troops and pleasant quarters to any Russians surrendering in active combat. Publicize the hell out of it. Publicize the hell out of it and they could remove a significant portion of Russian forces.

Benny and Cono, if you had any decency or credibility you’d be too busy eating crow to be posting in here.


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Attachment 407697

Every child should be watching this right now as a minimum mandatory introduction to world politics.

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Originally Posted by neufox47

Benny and Cono, if you had any decency or credibility you’d be too busy eating crow to be posting in here.


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I don't think either of them are capable of admitting they were wrong.

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Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush

I don't think either of them are capable of admitting they were wrong.

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Wrong about what? The Ukraine using irregular troops in the Donbas? Some of which had questionable plolitics? That’s fact. Go google the Vice program from a couple of yrs ago. I won’t do it here.

Some of You guys just want any excuse to push your own domestic Narrative as you have for 5 yrs. If things get worse your divisiveness should be a hanging offense.

Laughable to call me a traitor or Putin sympathizer when you associate me with Pinochet and it Wasn’t long ago some clowns in here were praising Hugo Chavez.

I was raised to hate communists more than most of you. I still have to watch what I say around some when I visit Chile. You guys have tainted me.



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Originally Posted by Cono Este

Wrong about what?

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How about the quote you agreed with that Bennymac has circulated here. Was that wrong?

You and SumJonguy claim that those resisting Russian occupation are Nazi sympathizers. For example, President Zelensky is a Nazi sympathizer in your estimation.

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Originally Posted by ::: :::

Posted that yesterday

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damn your twatter games tighter than the bunners you must be a pro
id share a foxhole but shes gonna need to cut off the trigger finger of them gloves

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Originally Posted by Cono Este

Wrong about what? The Ukraine using irregular troops in the Donbas? Some of which had questionable plolitics? That’s fact. Go google the Vice program from a couple of yrs ago. I won’t do it here.

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Dude, Russia moved the little green men from Crimea right after their victory to the donbas where they started causing trouble. Ukraine used their military to try to calm things down and ended up just getting shelled by Russians for 8 years. The same dumbfuck uninformed Russians that shot down MH17 killing hundreds of completely uninvolved civilians. Literally, when will putler's balls be clean enough for you to stop licking them?

Laughable, man.

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Originally Posted by ex-powderbroker

They wouldn't even sell Pegasus to Ukraine a couple of years ago despite giving it to journalist murdering regimes because they didn't want to piss off Russia. Lethal aid would jeopardize their missions in Syria, so I don't see it happening.

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Maybe you misunderstood my vague post. By definition, there are ways Israel can enable cyber support that aren’t visible. This is a shadowy area where plausible deniability is what matters.

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In further evidence that Putin’s invasion of Ukraine is radically changing European views, a survey for the Finnish public broadcaster YLE has found a majority of the country’s population is in favour of joining Nato for the first time.

According to the poll, conducted last week over three days before and immediately after the attacks with a representative sample of nearly 1,400 people, 53% of Finns would now support Finland’s accession to Nato, with 28% opposed and 19% unsure.

In 2017, the last time YLE’s market researchers polled on the same question, only 19% of Finns were in favour of joining the alliance, while a survey for private broadcaster MTV in January showed 30% supported membership.

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And now Switzerland is supporting EU sanctions on oligarch assets.

Shit is changing fast, especially by the sclerotic standards of Europe.

Is there a GoFundMe to buy and deliver more hardware to Ukraine?

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Originally Posted by riser4

Is there a GoFundMe to buy and deliver more hardware to Ukraine?

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Your tax bill.

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Originally Posted by Benny Profane

Your tax bill.

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Doosh.

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Originally Posted by skifishbum

damn your twatter games tighter than the bunners you must be a pro
id share a foxhole but shes gonna need to cut off the trigger finger of them gloves

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Originally Posted by ::: :::

https://metro.co.uk/2022/02/27/ex-mi...ages-16185166/

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https://metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploa...I_90463945.jpg

https://metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploa...I_90467562.jpg

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Originally Posted by neufox47

Benny and Cono, if you had any decency or credibility you’d be too busy eating crow to be posting in here.


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They should, but they won't. And post post post they will. Best practice is when you see their name, just scroll past. Don't pollute your brain with their drivel.

Et Tu, Switzerland?

Attachment 407717

Putin is getting backed into a corner. Be wary of scared animals backed into corners, they are usually unpredictable. (Obvious, but needs to be said)

The pictures from Kharkiv, Ukraine's second largest city, are awful. There are many civilian casualties due to bombing and the use of either cluster munitions or rocket systems on civilian structures.

Unless there's an acceptable exit ramp for Putin things will get uglier.

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Originally Posted by MultiVerse

The pictures from Kharkiv, Ukraine's second largest city, are awful. There are many civilian casualties due to bombing and the use of either cluster munitions or rocket systems on civilian structures.

Unless there's an acceptable exit ramp for Putin things will get uglier.

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I said it upthread, but precision guided munitions are crazy expensive. While Russia does have cutting edge military tech, they only posses it in small numbers that are operational. There is no way that russia has anything resembling a "stockpile" of cruise missiles, precision guided bombs, etc. This means that after the first strong, targeted volley meant to incapacitate the Ukranian military, russian forces will be mostly relying on more conventional, less accurate munitions which will cause far more collateral damage. And it will only get worse as they whittle away at stockpiles.

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Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush

How about the quote you agreed with that Bennymac has circulated here. Was that wrong?

You and SumJonguy claim that those resisting Russian occupation are Nazi sympathizers. For example, President Zelensky is a Nazi sympathizer in your estimation.

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I’ll meet you at the library to go over WW2 history. It’s all in there. Same for Norway and other countries that had part of the population collaborate. Big deal, probably shouldn’t have reminded everyone at a Time like this but it doesn’t mean it’s false.


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Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush

How about the quote you agreed with that Bennymac has circulated here. Was that wrong?

You and SumJonguy claim that those resisting Russian occupation are Nazi sympathizers. For example, President Zelensky is a Nazi sympathizer in your estimation.

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Nope, I only claimed that they have as much of that shit show as we do.. Most countries have that. I added that a choice of them or Putin would be difficult.. I never said I believed Zalinsky or the majority of Ukraine is Nazi bullshit. It's clear now that their idiots are only in control of the separatist zones.

If it came across differently I have zero issues walking that back 100%.

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Originally Posted by ::: :::

https://metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploa...I_90463945.jpg

https://metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploa...I_90467562.jpg

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Oh my.

A friend who travelled extensively on a very good expense account told me that Bucharest had the finest women. This isn't far.