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Putting Jokic ahead of Curry and Kobe right now on the all time list? Look, maybe down the road, but come on. He's not ahead of KD yet either but will likely end up there.
Jokic has been to one finals and has one ring. Curry has been to 6 and has four rings. Kobe has 5 rings. I mean... calm down. Future potential doesn't count until it actually happens.
I think we're on the same page - if he got hit by a truck tomorrow I would totally agree. But in the post I said assuming 5 more strong seasons and an MVP this year he's number 11 - not right now. If he does all that he has AT LEAST 1 ring, 3 MVPS and 10 all NBAs - probably more of all of them. Curry has 4 rings, 2 MVPs and 9 All NBAs. Kobe has 4 rings, 1 MVP, 15 All NBAs. I'd put Joker over Curry if he ends up with those numbers, because I think he's more clearly the best basketball player in the world than Curry was in his prime. And to be clear I love Curry. I think he might need another ring to overtake Kobe. Full disclosure about how much I like of Kobe: not so much.Quote:
Originally Posted by TahoeJ
Of course he doesn't have all his hardware yet cause he's still in his prime - which is the point. He's gonna be a top 11ish or better player unless he gets hit by a bus or the aliens steal his talent, and he's in his prime. We don't often get to enjoy that. So I'm trying to enjoy it. I didn't appreciate Duncan as much as I should have. I'm fixing that.
By the way there are only 9 guys who have won 3 or more MVPs. Two of them are Moses and Erving. The rest of them are solidly top 10 all time.
More clearly the best in the world than when Curry was a unanimous MVP? Umm... ok. lol... talk about recency bias.
Yes, more clearly than that. Everyone agreed with him as the MVP. Not everyone agreed that a guard of his size was the best player in the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by TahoeJ
ESPN didn't even rank that year as Curry's best season and ranked it 36th overall:
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29094953/ranking-top-74-individual-seasons-nba-history
Jokic last year made a run at the best season of all time:
https://andybailey.substack.com/p/ni...3-was-arguably
with the best season and overall PER of all time.
https://www.basketball-reference.com...er_career.html
So yes, more clearly best in the world.
He was voted unanimously. Come on dude, this is some wild homer shit. Jokic is great but let's keep it real here. Jokic vs. Embiid has been a thing.
I'm not going to keep arguing with ya cause it's just silly, and if you want to defend your player on your team that's cool, but you are essentially arguing that Curry had the most dominant season of all time due to him being the only unanimous MVP. Which is hard to justify. Was he better than the year Shaq got all but one vote? Jokic owns the best single season PER of all time and the best career PER of all time. In fact, Jokic owns #1, 11, 14, and 19. Curry's 2015-2-16 was 12th, and then his next best is 76.Quote:
Originally Posted by TahoeJ
And I was watching GSW and loving them then, and almost never heard Curry referred to as the best in the world. That was always Lebron - everyone always answered Lebron. Best in the world isn't a one season thing. Which makes the fact that nearly every one is referring to Jokic now as the best in the world (or among the best few at worst) remarkable. And it's not just the media, it's the players. So maybe it was Lebron that kept Curry down a little from a perception standpoint and Jokic doesn't have to deal with that - and I'd buy that argument. But the fact that Jokic is more clearly separated now than Curry was then is true non-the-less.
Anyway, I'm done with this back and forth. I enjoyed Curry at his height, I'm gonna enjoy Jokic at his. Certainly never intended this as a dig on Curry. Ya got a bone to pick on this one it's with Danno! Go yell at him haha!
Just for critical thinking purposes, do you realize you're using LeBron as the point of contrast for Curry and Embiid as the point of contrast for Jokic? One of these is not like the other.
Dude, you could be talking about George Clooney's flute playing skills and J is going to somehow take it as an afront to Curry. You new here?Quote:
Originally Posted by EWG
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Is prime Jokic better than prime LeBron? Asking for a friend.
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This thread is attempting to go full retread.
Just working through upthread reasoning.Quote:
Originally Posted by riser4
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Anyway moving on… this might be the most stacked the West has ever been.
The Warriors are the 10th seed and they’re 11.5 games behind Denver. Meanwhile Milwaukee is the 2 seed in the East and they’re 12 games behind the Celtics. Crazy.
By stacked you mean "competitive"? Because part of the reason the east has such a gap between 1 and 2 is because the Celtics are lapping the whole league. If they had that record in the west they'd still be in front of #2 by 6.5 games.
I do not think the west is clearly better than the east, certainly not as much as in years past. So if that is what you mean by "most stacked ever", I disagree.
It’s in no way an affront to the Celtics’ dominance. But the West is certainly a deeper conference. The East isn’t horrible or anything, they’re actually both pretty deep. More than we’ve seen in a while.
Embiid's a bad man.https://en.as.com/nba/embiid-and-jok...0this%20season.
Julius Randle will have season ending surgery; such a bummer for the Knicks. They will still be a tough out because Brunson is playing out of this world, but without Randle it's hard to think of them as even fringe title contenders.
Ugh. To have any chance against Boston they were going to need Randle. Celtics seem like a shoe in for the Finals and have to be the obvious overall favorites right now. They’ve been knocking on the door for a few years now.
The Celtics have a hard time closing the game out with a lead. Maybe I'm being overly critical as a Celtics fan, but I'm not confident with them winning ty. I hope they do, but Denver appears stronger to me.
It is hard to say based on such a long season. Staying motivated night after night with the best record is difficult with every opponent bringing their A-game to knock the #1 off.
NHL and NBA should have shorter seasons.
Denver looks like, since they are finishing out the season without Murray, they are gonna end up with the 2 or 3 spot. No home court and more importantly the 2 and 3 seed have to play each other in the conference semis while the 1 gets to play the 4 seed there.
Interesting to watch them try to balance playing for seeding vs getting Murray healthy. They are a different team with Jamal.
Two months of playoffs sure adds to the season.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackstraw
Love the Celtics. Fingers crossed. They play a spectacular 3 quarters of bball. Unfortunately they seem to be into autoerotic asphyxiation at times.
Embiid and Jokic never came back from 3-1 to beat Curry in the Finals?Quote:
Originally Posted by TahoeJ
:fmicon:
:biggrin:
Exactly! And they never went 7-15 against Curry in the Finals either! They need to get there to do that. [emoji41]Quote:
Originally Posted by BmillsSkier
(Never gets old, does it BMills?!)
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.... bad at finding the entrance to Ball Arena.Quote:
Originally Posted by ötzi
The whole 3-1 taunt thing is funny- it doesn’t even bother Warriors fans at this point. We beat LeBron 3 out of 4 finals and then got another one. Tell me that in 2013 and I’m losing my damn mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by 54-46
Caught a great Spurs game last night in San Antonio. Double OT, sixers had their hands full. Wemby is the real deal, kid is smooth as silk.
Good show and packed house, and there's a lot of love for a last place team which is great to see.