Stage 7 was brutal, 4 laps in the jungle. No real rest on that parcour.
Managed to hold 3.4w/kg for 1:05:33, after skiing all day. Legs were smoked!
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Stage 7 was brutal, 4 laps in the jungle. No real rest on that parcour.
Managed to hold 3.4w/kg for 1:05:33, after skiing all day. Legs were smoked!
I did a mix of A/B/C, ended up 18th in A on Stage 6/Innsbruck @ 3.6w/kg average. Figure these rides definitely helped that result.
Not finished all of the stages yet, but I've also been doing A and B rides. Definitely getting my racing legs back although I've plateaued at the moment.
Attachment 362093
6 riders tonight.
Attachment 362129
Dee Hubbs
jamal (P.L.)
justcuz (K.R.)(late joiner)
Wendigo
EWG (F.T.)
F.Trucker
See ya Thursday at 6:00 EST or next Tuesday at 6:00 MST.
(That’s meant for the new comers or seldom showers.)
just cuz was late (or had technical issues), so when he joined late Zwift put him in the middle of the pack, at pack speed and pack power and Zwift gave him 15 seconds to get his pedals up to speed. (He would have gotten a message up on the screen “pedal assist ending in 14 seconds...”)
Easy to join late, no catch up, no being left behind. We (the pack) will even slow to let you get comfortably up to speed in the pack.
D.H.
I did 3 laps of the TGR course today as I knew I wouldn’t make the ride tonight. That’s a fun little loop, really enjoyed it actually. Crushed the sprint but that’s my thing... short bursts!
nice ride tonight - continue to be amazed at the power that a few folks can put out, damn impressive.
in other news, went to shower after our ride - frozen pipes and drain, fun...
was thinking it might be fun to hit reverse at the beginning one of these rides
Great ride as usual, gents. Also amazed at the power I see showing up from some of y'all.
Thanks to Dee for the tow at the end of Lap 2 / beginning of Lap 3, and for the rest of y'all for waiting up for me. Those Lap 3s seem to be getting a little faster each week, and it's definitely helping me to be in that mix and push it some.
Oh, and Zwift informed me I increased my FTP a bit as well... I should have a look at that!
Cant U-turn in a meet up, you leave the meet up and rejoin the rest of the virtual world.Quote:
Originally Posted by wendigo
I’ve been looking for a different ride similar to this one, but haven’t found one that checks all the boxes.
I don’t like the climb being right at the end, I like that our climb is the jumping off point to race.
I like the distance for 3 laps in 45 mins (under 1hr (with warm up/cool down)
So many <10km courses have have a stupid long run in to the beginning of the first lap.
Attachment 362134
QUESTION: Have any of you followed any of the Zwift training plans? I'm looking at the "Dirt Detroyer" plan and thinking about givin'er a go.
Tried to join tonight a few times, but my work phones VPN was on and was preventing it from joining thought as able to ride a lap up the big climb in Innsbruck while watching a movie. Should be back for next Tuesday.
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This time of year I'm mostly just trying to ride a reasonable amount to keep some base fitness and keeping the high intensity stuff down to like once a week, just because I feei like I still need a bit of a break. Although it's kind of weird, all of my racing has been this winter on zwift, and I'm not optimistic about real racing until, like, late summer or cx in the fall. But I suppose there will be some more "individual" type events in the spring at least.Quote:
Originally Posted by Full Trucker
So yeah, I haven't really looked at the plans on zwift but have browsed the workouts a bit and there is a lot of fairly "elaborate" stuff. Which is fine, doing a plan is better than no plan and a bunch of different workouts makes it more engaging. Personally my plan is to mostly do ftp oriented workouts plus some vo2 stuff for the next month or two and then i'll be able to start getting some good outdoor miles. We also have another local zwift race series going so that's kind of my one really hard, intense day a week.
On the other hand I can't say for sure that my plans are any good. Usually I just ride a lot, but having a smart trainer that reads power has motivated me to add some actual structure and set some rough power goals. Which, for all I know I'll hit just doing my normal things outside (or, will never reach no matter how well I train). I got this thing at the end of october and had been slacking for like 2 months up to that point. Also, did no workouts or races last year, just rode a lot.
Didn’t know that about the uturn kicking out. Thanks again for setting this up!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dee Hubbs
I officially reached a burn out phase this week while juggling working construction in damned 3 deg f and then skiing hard on the weekends and then TDZ efforts in the mix. This is the first winter in many where I have managed to prioritize a skiing a bit and it is real interesting seeing the counter effect it has on my 'endurance training stuff'. A good problem to have for sure!
I like hearing other people's training block plans and seeing what the objectives are. That is why I love endurance stuff because is like owning a car and slowly building out parts and making it faster and faster. I had a good running block through the fall and into first week of new year than changed gears to zwifting solid through the winter in prep for more Strava racing next summer, as to Jamal's point about there being no real races.
I threw the Big Island bike thing out there more as excuse to have something to train hard for in the spring and then have nice spring board into summer. Then I was thinking about just doing a 10 staycation instead, and slaying some lines!
Also to Jamal's point, I have never followed a 'real' training plan other than getting X amount of miles or hours on the week with a blend of 80-20 along the way. I will build hours and miles through a block as it peaks to a big race or something but never followed a plan plan. I can follow big trend but am too finicky on day to day basis as to whether I want to do long run or speed work or whatever, as prescribed.
I’ve only been zwifting about a month so definitely a rookie here - but I signed up for the “FTP builder” training plan right away. The first couple workouts were good as it helped me build a bit of a foundation of fitness (I live on planet hoth so other than the odd fatbike outing I hadn’t been on a bike since September)
But it’s a bit annoying being on a plan because it wants you to do each session within a certain time frame (window is a few days) and then it just locks you out of that session and moves you to the next. I’d rather be able to fit these sessions in on my own schedule (working around group rides, races, alp climbs, other non zwift activities, real life commitments etc)
I think what might work better (for me) is to just make a custom workout anytime I want a training session - and then sort of design each session with the idea of mixing in different styles of workouts.
"Zwift has 2 different structures: "Workouts" and "Plans"
"Workouts" are a bunch of single sessions that you can follow on your own schedule, where as "Plans" have set days to complete the next session, and only unlocks the next session once you have completed (or missed) them.
So in "Workouts" you can choose something like the 4wk FTP Booster or 8wk Rase Day Prep, and just click through the sessions at your own pace. Monday, Tuesday Thursday, or Monday 3 Mondays from now. If you want to repeat a session or skip a session, you can do that.
Good beta!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dee Hubbs
Something longer is of interest to me. For example, two laps of Ocean Lava Cliffside Loop where the second time up the climb things kick off. That route should take us an just about an hour (22 miles).Quote:
Originally Posted by Dee Hubbs
I’m a big fan of that new route in Watopia. Climb is hard but not too hard, great loop.
Only problem is that for a group our size the hill is a wee bit longer than ideal. We'll be ones and twos by a third of a way up that hill.Quote:
Originally Posted by buttahflake
I started that way in January hoping not to over do it. Got boring after a month. Started just riding routes which was a lot more fun. Sure enough, over did it last week and skiing on the weekend left me barely able to walk my knees were so sore. Back at it tonight and I’ll try and pace myself better. Going to start lapping the Innsbruck ring so I can learn to pace myself in that and hopefully join a group ride next month.Quote:
Originally Posted by Full Trucker
Thanks for the insight, all. I guess I left the question pretty open-ended, not sure what I'm really after as far as knowledge goes. Maybe I'm looking more for some advice or insight on more generally what kind of training should I be doing / would be helpful for me. Obviously I can't expect y'all to really be able to dispense advice because none (well, most) of you don't know me, haven't ridden with me, don't know my fitness level, don't know my goals, blah blah blah. And for me it's kinda difficult "picking a plan" because I don't race, I don't have an event I'm working towards, I just generally want to be able to ride faster up and down and not get shelled by my buddies on big mountain bike rides. It just occurred to me that maybe the answer is to simply find some slower friends... like rideit.
My "plan" in the past is similar to a lot of ya... just ride as much as I can. I'm guessing I don't do the volume that some of you fast guys do... is that the key for where I'm at now? Just add volume? It sure seems like I've been about as fast as I am now for a bunch of years, despite an increase in trail miles over the years. So will adding some focused "riding" that works on specific things (e.g. slow cadence power, leg speed, general FTP building, increasing cardio capacity, whatever) help push me to a new level? And what of those things am I lacking in? How do you figure that out? Am I overthinking the fuck outta this? (yes, btw)
At any rate... I'm just babbling now. Thinking out loud on the keyboard. DOn't pay no nevermind to the idiot muttering to hisself in the corner... I'll probably see y'all tomorrow afternoon where I once again try to figure out how to sustain 3-3.5w/kg up that fucking tiny hill three times in a row. That shit is tough on Lap 3. Jayzus.
This is kinda my concern with getting on a "Plan"... that I'll get bored. I've never really trained for anything, aside from some light weight training/conditioning for racing slow amateur DH racing 10-15 years ago. And I hated the gym, frickin' bored me to tears. So I was never good at "training" per se. I am hopeful the element of the Zwift engagement for "workout rides" will make it fun enough to stick with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flounder
FT - My $0.02 recommendation is just ride more until that stops working, which maybe you're at now. Beyond that the level and type of training can vary pretty significantly depending on your available time and desire, but the very general two schools of thought are polarized training (LOTS of easy volume, like really easy, and then a little bit of Hard like REALLY hard, which shifts as you get closer to the events/season) or Sweet Spot which amounts to riding pretty hard much of the time with easy and really hard mixed on top of this. Grossly oversimplifying and for most people Sweet spot will get you pretty damn far if you're willing to push yourself, but you can burnout on this with too much of it. The what's too much and what's not enough varies though.
For what it's worth I got pretty damn fast on more Sweet Spot training, but it already kinda worked into my schedule of 1 hr lunch rides x3/wk and <90 min group rides w/ fast guys 1-2x/wk. I raced Cat 1 XC pretty seriously so was complimentary to that, but would often completely fall apart after 2 hours compared to people doing more traditional polarized builds. I used TrainerRoad pretty heavily those days which is almost all Sweet Spot.
Yes, it's a complicated topic with more opinions than anyone has time to read. However, there are some truths;
- Riding with faster people is almost guaranteed to make you faster if you push yourself
- There is very ilttle chance you can replicate outdoor intensity with indoor intensity alone. So get outside as soon as possible
- Taking a giant shit right before a ride/race are the kinda gains you're looking for
If you’re like me and you’re just looking for better fitness on a recreational level I’m finding that collecting the route badges has been motivating. I printed the list of routes from zwift insider (which are grouped by difficulty) and just started with the easy ones. This isn’t a structured plan of course but with regards to volume it’s a somewhat natural progression. Some of the super long routes appear too long and boring to likely ever do them.
Adding in group rides (like TGR that turns into a race), a weekly climb up the alp (between 1-2 hours of steady pushing for most people), and the odd race all contribute.
My goal is to not be a lard ass with weak legs in the spring when biking with friends from warmer climates. I can already tell zwifting like this will make a significant difference.
^^
I agree: ride more and have fun until you find yourself on a plateau. It's like climbing--no real "training" is worth it if you're not climbing 5.11. Below that the answer is just to go climbing a lot.
VTskibum offers a great summary of the effective difference between SS and polarized training methodologies. I was just telling a friend who has similar goals that if he only has, say, 10h a week to train, SS will prob be better for him. With unlimited time, the science says polarized is better, though. Total annual training hours is another way to look at it. IMO 700 hours is where serious fitness can be built, but that requires a bunch of 18+hr weeks in the base period, so if doesn't work for everyone.
Also, remember that your body only sees stress. It doesn't know whether it's from riding, working construction, or fighting with your girlfriend. You can only take so much, so try to be aware of the total package.
Personally I'm probably not going to do any racing this year, but I will do a bunch of 8-12h really remote rides that will require hours and hours of Z3 to complete. Rides like that are a little like gravel races, but without the really hard start. So I'm taking some inspiration from training plans I've seen for Kanza etc. This will likely mean I'll do a lot more tempo riding and virtually no sprint or even shorter VO2 max intervals, as compared with when I was focused on road racing, which tops out at around 5h in P12.
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I don’t think I can bust through the plateau I’m at, almost 56 years old now. I’m happy to be a mid-pack (B) at this point. Zwift totally changed the way I ride. I rode on feeling for ever. That’s not the way to do it. Now that I know my zones, both HR and power, I ride way smarter. 80% in zone 2, 20% in zone 4. Just like Carp mentioned. So most rides are fun, long cruises. And the other rides are shorter but with wicked intensity. I purchased Assiomas Duo power meter pedals at the end of last year, just because of how much Zwift has changed my outlook
Coach at the local Lone Peak Performance has me on this program right now: 3 structured training rides per week + 2 MTB specific hour long strength training sessions. Plus skiing alot.
The first three weeks were building with Monday being 1 hour Z4 interval ride, Wednesday Z2 steady state for 45 mins, and Friday being 90+ minute Z2 LSD ride.
This week is Monday Z4 intervals, today Z2 steady, Friday Z3 sweet spot intervals.
Increasing durations and interval blocks every week.
The Z4s are fucking hard and where I need the most gains for Enduro stages. My V02 max pointed to more of an endurance physiology. I can ride at Z2 for hours and hours if I wanted.
With Zwift you can choose a Route and do a structured workout at the same time for maximum enjoyment and XP.
I am running two monitors, so the flat screen on the wall is a movie or something and the laptop has my Zwift screen.
I am feeling ravaged the last month, but strong and my legs are getting fucking swole. I put on some work slacks this AM for a meeting and they don't fit my quads anymore and they were loose fitting 2 months ago.
Getting the upper body and core now with the MTB strength training in the AMs on Weds and Friday.
Zwift has some really good "FTP Builder" training plans, 4-8 weeks long, tells you what to do each day. I think they are pretty good, actually. It's not a coach, but it's as close as you'll get without hiring someone.
If you have Zwift, the easiest training plan I can think of is to do those. They will have a huge impact.
Yes thanks for allowing the late join! This is week two of connectivity issues with zwift. But I’m glad I got to join!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dee Hubbs
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PSA for the Canucks: Sport Chek has the Tacx Flux S trainer 25% off with their friends and family sale starting today. With the tight supply/demand situation I’m a bit surprised to see it in stock, let alone discounted.
Euro racing season underway on GCN! Currently watching Tour le Provence, shorts and jerseys in the south of France.
Whoop-Whoop
Thanks y'all for your thoughts. I also talked to a friend who has helped coach several teams and a pile of XC, DH, and other riders over the years and helped start a collegiate team at one point. His advice was pretty much "anything you do, if it's focused training or just added volume, is going to make a difference" which seems in alignment with what y'all are saying. I guess I was making the assumption that the amount I ride in the summer should be enough to see some kind of increase... and while I do get the occasional PR on a climb or descent here and there it's not consistent. So... more riding. Indoor when I don't have time or am busy skiing and working, outdoor when I can in the winter and all the time in the summer.
Last night did a Zwift workout, and used it to check off a new route badge as well. 2x15 FTP... wasn't easy. Definitely much more difficult to hold steady power the second half of the second FTP effort. I thought I'd picked a route about the right length to complete while doing the workout... turns out I had to spin for another 10-15 minutes to finish the route. D'oh! I do think the workouts will help keep me engaged with riding more, so I'm gonna check it out. The plan I am interested in is focused on cadence as well as power, so I've got a sensor showing up today and gonna check that out on this afternoon's meetup.
See you gents later in the game!
Definitely worthwhile to add actual workouts into your riding, it's just important to not overdo it. The rest and recovery is a big part of training. Can't just do workouts every day, it's more like once, twice a week, and then your other rides need to be slower. So start with that, ride mostly normally but give yourself a day or two where it's shorter and easier then do a workout.
Important to be fairly well rested going into one. if you're not feeling good and fresh, trying to force a workout is not accomplishing anything. Like last saturday I tried to do a 3x15 workout and only made it 10min into the 2nd one despite picking what I thought was a pretty conservative number. Sunday I did do a 2x20 that went better though..
I've screwed myself over plenty of times where I tried to add workouts to my regular high volume, sort of hard riding to get ready for cyclocross and then just never felt good or got to where I wanted. What I should be doing is taking a little break in august and then actually planning my riding and workouts.
I could be wrong about this, but from what I've looked into on this the Zwift plans are actually not great. Especially the older plans that have been around for a while.Quote:
Originally Posted by EWG
The consensus seems to be that using TrainerRoad or a 3rd party plan that you can plug into Zwift via Training Peaks is going to be better.
Don't be a St Patty's day hero! Of all the interval types I've ever done the 2x20s or variants (4x8/10/12, 2x15 whatever) at or near threshold are soo good and soo hard for me. Those 'push' your FTP up vs V02 and the like that pull it up. I'm naturally(?) pretty good at V02 types, so find working on the 2x20s works my weakness. That's another big part of any training plan is to improve your weaknesses, which means doing things you're not comfortable with. All that said don't overdo it and not everyone is the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by jamal
There's something about erg mode too, it doesn't ever let you ease off just for a little bit. I built the workout myself in zwift the other day and thought my number was pretty conservative, as I'd done a good amount more than that for almost the same time recently. But that previous one was in a race on a climb where there was a bit of a break in the middle so it was more like two vo2 efforts. Plus I was a little tired going into it. So for the next day I was like, well, I'd better dial it back even more for the 2x20. Which at the end had me thinking I could have done more, but that's better than not making it.
In other news, had our local series zwift race last night, another 6 weeks. Last week was a time trial, this was pretty short, two laps of london flat. Big group, then some attacks formed a small break toward the end. I hesitated to join as there were teammates in so I could just sit in and make others chase, but the whole group was blowing up and there were a bunch of people strung out up the road and I thought it had a good chance. Surfed my way up there kind of late and then we got caught with like 1k so it was a huge mass going into the sprint. So not great having 3 of us up the road in a small group and then all getting swarmed and finishing kind of far back, plus I'd done a lot of work up to that point and wasn't very heipful in the break. Put down some good numbers though.
This skips forward pretty far, not much happens up to there
https://youtu.be/xsxRP9YAdq8?t=1750
Can’t make it tonight boys, see y’all next week.
I’ll be somewhere in watopia riding mellow, I’m nursing some tendonitis in my knee that just won’t settle down.
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Work call tonight. F'ing work is getting in the way. A lot.
Smoked my legs skiing today, it’s so good back east right now. Couch feels wicked good with the wood stove cranking on a cold evening.