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Quote:
Originally Posted by byates1
its fucked at least I can pretend to care and hope for better conditions for those workers? Unfortunately there is not a certificate of clean ethical mining I can get when I buy an ev.
i guess i could just walk everywhere lol
For the record, I hate big oil companies and it would do my heart good to see them all go bankrupt.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teleee
90% of the revenue for the company I work for comes from oil and gas Attachment 465340 but we pretend that we are making them greener!
I use the Bingham mine because it’s certainly left ann impression, if you’ve ever been up there, it’s pretty amazing. Giant ass mining trucks look like little miniature Tonka toys in a hole 3/4 of a mile deep that you can’t see the bottom of.Quote:
Originally Posted by NBABUCKS1
Still curious, where Nevada would find the water for such mining operations.
Thacker pass mine in Nevada I believe is proposed open pit, but I guess probably wouldn’t have a hole in the ground as big as Utah
The reality it we are going to be digging shit up and lighting shit on fire for a long time. Maybe someday like 2000 plus years from now we'll figure out how to harness gravity or whatever but until then....
I think wv's can serve a purpose for a lot of urban and suburban in ppl. It's perfect for the family that drives little.
But gov mandates of rapidly going ev in like 8 years is insane. There is nowhere near the level of power available needed. And most of that is oil and coal . It's largely a feel good bs political move...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackhead
As linked above in a separate post and in that video they have wells that are sucking up a brine and then concentrating that brine via evaporation. To the best of my knowledge they are not adding fresh water to the mining/processing on site.
Here is the wiki on the Thatcher pass mine (not the albermerle one I linked earlier)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thacke...action_process
Not seeing any mention of adding fresh water here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by byates1
which is why any ev mandates need to be two/three fold with a focus on grid updates and electrical production updates for nuclear, wind, solar and grid storage (battery? some other tech idk). Even if my ev power is coming from coal/oil/gas it's more efficient/cleaner to burn at a single site (power generation plant) then a bunch of mini power plants (gas car engine).
Here's a cool website that will show where your power is coming from in real time!: https://app.electricitymaps.com/map
Cali has already passed some insane mandate with 0 regard to where the actual power will come from. Morons.
You could walk or bike everywhere but you won’t. This crisis of energy and personal vehicles is a people problem. People can’t be bothered to walk or bike a few miles and public transit is a stigma for most Americans. Everyone has a solution in their head and they’re willing to share it with anyone but they’re still going to get in their personal vehicle to run errands or commute to work because they think they’re not part of the problem and they’re selfish.Quote:
Originally Posted by NBABUCKS1
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You’ll soon hate “big mining”. I don’t see any difference in business ethics between the two.Quote:
Originally Posted by teleee
Yep - and we don't have the political will to put people in office that will REALLY discourage behavior that we *know* is a problem and encourage behavior that helps.Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn
Mostly because freedumb.
Send this thread to Polyass!
:D
Oh I hate big mining just as much. I spent the first few years of my career in new mine construction and I can tell you from experience they give zero fucks about the environment. All the other heavy metals that are a side effect of the leaching process will become hazardous waste that we will have to deal with down the road. There is no easy answer, we are a giant race of self destructive cockroaches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackhead
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Agreed. Our existence is questionable on many levels.
That said - we need to make PROGRESS as opposed to throwing our hands up because the progress isn't perfect right out of the gate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skaredshtles
this.....BUT BUT BUT california doesn't have enough power by 2035 is not a good argument to stall the progress of grid development, clean power generation and EV deployment.
Oh I agree there needs to be progress but it is not good to just assume that there is a magic bullet out there that will solve everything, if we are aware of the issues then we can focus on them. To just say EV’s will solve all of the issues is flat out wrong. They will solve several and in the process will create new ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by skaredshtles
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No argument from me. This problem has no magic bullets. But the more people that get on board with PROGRESSING, the better.Quote:
Originally Posted by teleee
^ I assume you'll lead the charge by getting rid of all ice engines, turning off you power permanently, getting a rickshaw, and eating bugs going forward. Thx appreciate it
:rolleyes2Quote:
Originally Posted by byates1
Hardline all or nothing people are fascinating. I imagine a life of 'awww shucks' shoulder shrugs doing much of nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by skaredshtles
Protip on projects bigger than filling a grocery bag: incremental and continuous improvement is better than delayed perfection. You realize results as you go, allows you to adjust course.
Problem or concern with EV is will oil companies still have financial incentive to continue pursuing oil if say 1/2 the demand disappears to EV? So you’ve got heavy industry/aircraft/etc not likely to go EV anytime soon, oil market demand essentially collapses/becomes marginally profitable…how does the world economic dynamic adjust?
It took thousands of years to find something better than the horse and wagon. When something that is more efficient comes along, that’s when things will change, and only then.
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Uninformed guess: people much smarter than me will figure out how to adjustQuote:
Originally Posted by Trackhead
Hahahahh…will be an interesting transition. I likely won’t be alive to see it happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by skaredshtles
It will be a slow-slow decline in demand. The petroleum industry handling that transition is the least of our worries.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackhead
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It'll be just like any other time there was a change in oil prices, or any commodity for that matter. Price goes up, people figure out how to substitute or otherwise use less. Member the oil shocks of the 70s? Started a revolution in carpools and compact cars. The world didn't end. Member the 80s/90s when prices became cheaper and more stable? Started a SUV revolution.
If carbon fuel prices are forced to include their impact on the environment, people will adapt, just as they do to any price change. There's already a shitload of electric cars around here, and I haven't seen the sky falling. Grid didn't collapse, airplanes still fly off the treadmill. Supposedly EVs don't cost any more to run than gas cars, so we should get on that. The upfront cost is (currently) higher, but we have a well developed financial system to cover that. The shift away from oil may hurt some dictators; I have no tears.
I may as well introduce "Big electricity" too then. Wind and solar may be renewable but at industrial scale they produce a huge footprint. Most people seem unaware what a massive expansion of those will look like on the ground.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackhead
Big electricity is doing everything it can to stifle small scale/personal solar while railroading through its own industrial scale generation and transmission projects. Like oil and mining, it's all driven by greed and corporate profit, not demand for green energy.
Wind turbines have become massive and get spaced well apart with an industrial scale road built to each tower, so they take up a huge area. Logically they are built along ridge tops and upper slopes where the wind is, but that also makes them visible from far away. And the view gets ruined just as much at night since they have red warning lights on top, all programmed to blink at the same time. As far as the eye can see: BLINK ....BLINK ....BLINK. Only a few other uses like grazing are compatible so they tend to be built on undeveloped land. Solar farms take up entire fields but at least they can be tucked into valley bottoms or other flat areas out of sight, and work well on land no longer used for agriculture or residential/commercial developments that were planned but failed. So they don't have to impact remote wild lands.
Build enough new farms and a new regional transmission line will be needed. SDG&E gave us a taste of that when they built Sunrise Powerlink a few years ago. They fought to stifle public involvement and be exempted from environmental review. Their proposed routes were so impactful across the county they caused widespread outrage. Option #1 went straight through Anza Borrego State Park. Option #2 through National Forest only drew less outrage because much of it was backcountry that people were unfamiliar with. So that's what we ended up with. It's an eyesore of large scale industrial activity with massive towers and wide access roads that's visible across much of our backcountry and recreation areas, like a giant fuck you to the public. Complete with blinking red lights so you don't forget it's there at night. And since they are guaranteed a 6% return on infrastructure they continually jack up our rates to pay for it. San Diego already had the highest rates in the country.
Solar and wind is the future but that future will be ugly unless we can fight off corporate greed and significantly ramp up installations of solar on homes and buildings. What's more efficient than generating power right where it's used, on existing footprints, and not needing transmission lines?
This is a wind farm near Tehachapi CA. It's an interesting area because there are multiple different generations of turbines close together. The older ones of various sizes are on the top, right side and bottom of the screenshot. The massive new ones are middle left.
Attachment 465377
When oil prices drop due to less consumption by ICEs it will make plastics and other products produced from oil cheaper. I imagine it will spur development of other types of plastics and possibly allow us to shift away from wood and metals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackhead
Lower prices will make more expensive types of oil extraction like fracking and oil sands development unprofitable which is a good thing.
Resource extraction and energy generation is ugly no matter what method is used. Don’t like it - go live in a mud hut in the forest.
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But, but… will I still have internet to post my sanctimonious rants?
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When’s this less consumption thing happening?Quote:
Originally Posted by evdog
When the van lifers park their rigs at the new mud hut.
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EV’s are getting a bad name mainly from their batteries. I am optimistic that new technology will eliminate lithium batteries and come up with a safer and more ecologically friendly solution, that also has a much greater storage capacity. It wasn’t that long ago that NiCad’s were the best portable batteries.
But the new tech will *surely* not be perfect! So we should do nothing...Quote:
Originally Posted by crashtestdummy
:nonono2:
I think ev's get a bad name because the dumbest people are the loudest.Quote:
Originally Posted by crashtestdummy
and yes battery tech will progress.
also why the hell did utard fuel prices jump 30 cents this week?
Prices rose because I had to fill my 36 gallon tank. Utah hates me.Quote:
Originally Posted by NBABUCKS1
If you're still under $4 a gallon, you can't bitch.
Are Americans really paying the world price for oil/ gas ?
We hung out with a group of mining promoters in Niseko cuz they had a van for touring but we were car-less and so I asked about lithium mines and buddy said well you only need one mine
That is for damn sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by k2skier112
England just passed a law making it legal to run over just stop oil protesters. About time.