2017 Praxis Skis Info and Resource Thread

I can’t attribute all the lack of stability/dampness to the ul. Some is the carbon, a fair bit is the dynafit and the lack of weight. A couple comparison are my steeple 102’s/speed turns weigh about the same but are 5cm shorter and they’re much more stable inbounds . I bought some concepts with enduro core, veneer and carbon with dfit ssl and they were a little more damp than the ul gpo but not as much as I was after. I ordered vipecs to replace the speed sl’s which helped a fair bit(I’d of preferred tectons) but the steeple is still more damp. It seems that weight and carbon definitely make a difference. I think the stock build with a tecton would strike a nice balance as a general touring rig but if you did take it inbounds it’d also be fine. A gpo with steeple construction would probably be heavier than I’d want for my touring only rig/my .02 take that with a grain of salt obviously. I’ve been 50/50 touring/hill skier as of late

^both. Just put "TGR Mag Special 4+ Flex" [emoji16]

Pulling the plug on my custom Freerides, and tossing them up on eBay, just can’t get used to them. I thought they were too stiff, a few buddies agreed but then one said they were too soft. I think the stiffness some of us felt was the pingyness of the carbon.

Not really sure what the issues is but I haven’t been a fan of carbon in skis before and I was nervous asking for carbon in the Freerides. I think I shot myself in the foot over thinking this whole process.

Anyways, it was a cool project and Keith is awesome, but it’s time to stop wasting good skis days on skis I love looking at but just don’t like...

Maybe if I skied them more the carbon would lose some of its harshness, but I’d rather ski a ski I actually enjoy.

I just mentioned in the Quixote thread that Enduro/carbon/veneer is my perfect layup, although I've not yet skied a Praxis without carbon. The Q's have a damp yet snappy feel.

My GPOs are Enduro/carbon (the year before they come out with veneer). They feel a bit more nervous than my Q's. I can't say how much of this is due to the skis design vs. layup.

The reason I mention this is that I didn't bond with my Freerides which deviated slightly from the above. They were heavy core/carbon/veneer (184), and they beat the crap out of me in frozen bumps. These aren't Keith's first choice for bumps either..

That decision was on me, and I sold them. I'm guessing the only way I would have bonded with them was by softening them to 3 or 3+ and perhaps going to Enduro. I was trying to give them an ON3P feel, but I think I picked the wrong ski for me.

I agree. Life is short - ski the skis that make you smile.

... Thom

^ Can you please elaborate on the feel of enduro/Carbon/veneer? I am looking to build a custom 192 ProTest 4 flex for an inbounds pow slayer. I own the 188 and and love the on snow feel and want to try and mimic that.

I was in the process of editing my above post - basically, I'm in agreement with other's comments that the veneer calms down the carbon with the ski still "snapping" into the next turn.

Keep in mind however, that I've never skied a Praxis without carbon, so I don't know how much more "snap" the carbon adds.

Since this Enduro/carbon/veneer formula works for me however, I'm not taking any chances (not being able to demo).

Given that a lot of folks have noticed a difference on otherwise identical builds, it's safe to say that I'd miss the carbon.

If veneer weren't available, I'd probably try leaving out the carbon, but I have no idea if I'd regret this decision.

... Thom

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Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un

I just mentioned in the Quixote thread that Enduro/carbon/veneer is my perfect layup, although I've not yet skied a Praxis without carbon. My GPOs are Enduro, carbon (the year before they come out with veneer).

The reason I mention this is that I didn't bond with my Freerides which deviated slightly from the above. They were a heavy core, carbon, veneer (184), and they beat the crap out of me in frozen bumps. Keith agrees. That decision was on me, and I sold them. I'm guessing the only way I would have bonded with them was by dofteni g them to 3 or 3+.

... Thom

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Thanks. I like demanding skis, Pro Riders, 194 Kastle MX98s, but something about the +10 Freerides just didn’t work. I think removing the carbon, and/or tweaking the flex, would be the move. If money was unlimited I’d get a new pair sans carbon to see if that did it. I’m also shying away from fat skis. Long and narrow has been my new thing, like the Fischer Ranger 202cm that are 110mm under foot are perfect, float with carve-ability, stability without your knees killing you at the bottom. Then again I have had my Shiros out the past 3 days...

I’m still looking for the Shiro replacement ski, maybe the Protest, maybe the Confession, maybe that new pow stick from Dynastar, maybe the Faction Dictator 4.0, not sure, but I’ll keep looking. Until then, Shiros it is, they may not be the most inspiring and fun ski there is, but they sure are easy to ski in anything.

I do think a 196 Protest with the suggested flex and core, with Mother Theresa on cherry veneer would be one sexy pow stick. We will see how dumb I get this summer...

I think first I’m going to get a pair of Faction Dictator 3.0 and 4.0s, and hopefully a pair of Faction Prime 3.0s. They look like they might fit the bill, we will see soon enough.

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Originally Posted by 2FUNKY

^ Can you please elaborate on the feel of enduro/Carbon/veneer? I am looking to build a custom 192 ProTest 4 flex for an inbounds pow slayer. I own the 188 and and love the on snow feel and want to try and mimic that.

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The carbon adds more pop to the ski. Some people complain that it takes away the crud busting ability because with the carbon it can feel more harsh when compared to the standard Enduro core.

Personally I prefer the carbon layup. I really like the added snap it brings and I've never noticed a downside to it in chop/crud.

My GPOs we're just a MAP (Enduro) core with vinal topsheets. At first I thought they were just meh but over time I grew to love them.

My 192 Protest was MAP and carbon with vinal topsheets. I liked this layup more than the standard core (had more pop/snap to the ski) but I never skied them in set up crud. However, they raged through soft chop like a champ.

Piste Jibs have heavy core/carbon/veneer. It's my favorite layup. The skis have a lot of pop while being nice and damp.

Hope this helps.

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Originally Posted by 2FUNKY

^ Can you please elaborate on the feel of enduro/Carbon/veneer? I am looking to build a custom 192 ProTest 4 flex for an inbounds pow slayer. I own the 188 and and love the on snow feel and want to try and mimic that.

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Dibs on your 188s if they are OG.

Muggy, how are the pair your bought?

^herniated discs = very little skiing for me this year. Won't be able to report until next season.

My response has been to hoard skis this season in anticipation of better times [emoji16] Quiver is definitely in good shape with:

GS and Slalom Race Skis
176 ON3P Jeronimos
180 Brahmas
182 Heavy/Carbon/Veneer Qs
186 Veneer Jeffrey 114s
187 Enduro Concepts
188 Second Gen Protests
192 Enduro/Veneer Protests

^vibes

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Originally Posted by SupreChicken

Dibs on your 188s if they are OG.

Muggy, how are the pair your bought?

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Sorry man but I will never sell them.

FWIW I have a heavy/carbon pair of protests and I absolutely adore them, I really dig the extra carbon pop in a pow ski but personally wouldn't add it to anything that wasn't a dedicated pow ski. Not to mention in my future purchases I would probably go just MAP V on just about anything excluding a resort daily, in which case I would probably go Heavy V. Veneer kinda took away the need for carbon for me, I also am starting to really think durability is quite solid.


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^ what do the heavy/carbon protests weigh?

Can anyone give any feedback on the yeti?
I love the dimensions and shape but not the stock #2 stiffness
Seems a 4 flex yeti would be a rad mountaineering ski
Anybody skied a 4 flex yeti?

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Originally Posted by gimpy

Can anyone give any feedback on the yeti?
I love the dimensions and shape but not the stock #2 stiffness
Seems a 4 flex yeti would be a rad mountaineering ski
Anybody skied a 4 flex yeti?

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Also interested. Looks like only 2 interested in my 184/185 BC idea, so I might be looking at a fat yeti. Curious what people think of it.

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Originally Posted by Muggydude

^ what do the heavy/carbon protests weigh?

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Take it fwiw (bathroom scale and an online weight for p14's, 1094g per binder), but I came out with 2194.5grms or 4.4lbs per ski. I believe they're 2014, year before the MAP core was introduced, not sure if/how carbon layup has changed but the following year when I asked Keith about carbon for my next build he did say they reduced the amount of carbon they used because it was overkill.

Edit to say, they are my cold dead hands ski, absolutely irreplaceable

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Originally Posted by flowing alpy

i’m beginning to like my new Rx better than my OG Rx:confused:

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I thought you were all about the soul 7 now...

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Originally Posted by eskido

Take it fwiw (bathroom scale and an online weight for p14's, 1094g per binder), but I came out with 2194.5grms or 4.4lbs per ski. I believe they're 2014, year before the MAP core was introduced, not sure if/how carbon layup has changed but the following year when I asked Keith about carbon for my next build he did say they reduced the amount of carbon they used because it was overkill.

Edit to say, they are my cold dead hands ski, absolutely irreplaceable

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Interesting. Enduro 187 Protest is ~9.4 lbs. with carbon maybe 9.1lbs. You might not have a heavy core? At that weight I'd think more like MAP with some extra carbon. Or just a bad scale haha. My Enduro Veneer 192s are around 9.6 lbs.

Yeah didn't seem right to me either, def pre MAP, probably a bad scale. I'll try to get a better weight this evening. Also not exactly sure if the binder weight I found online is accurate


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Originally Posted by eskido

Yeah didn't seem right to me either, def pre MAP, probably a bad scale. I'll try to get a better weight this evening. Also not exactly sure if the binder weight I found online is accurate

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Well, shocker I know but, apparently I'm just a dumbass who can't do simple math. 9.67 for the pair.

Not too bad at all. I'd be curious what a current gen 187 would weigh with heavy/carbon/Veneer. I'd think 9.8 lbs, definitely under 10. Definitely comparable to other resort pow skis

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Originally Posted by flowing alpy

i’m beginning to like my new Rx better than my OG Rx:confused:

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Did you change the layup or flex?

Before I email Keith, does anyone have info on how different top sheets come out with veneer options? I'm sure he can direct me but I'm wondering if there is a general consensus on what works and what doesn't.

There's a top shheet thread with lots of pics. In general, the ones which are like line drawings (Ibex, etc.) are most similar to the results you see on nylon.

Having said that, I love how the Max pattern came out on Ambrosia Maple.

... Thom