The new -2017- CAST touring system thread

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Originally Posted by lucknau

Trying to visualize this. You install helicoils sized for inserts, install the inserts, then the posts, then attach the touring toes and when the epoxy cures all of the tolerances in all of the parts give you best odds of getting perfectly aligned posts?


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I think @grinch installed BF inserts and not helicoils, but maybe he changed up after some earlier discussions we had. Perhaps @grinch was fixing a screw-up he inherrited, per @waveshello's comment.

The insert trick of screwing the binding into the inserts while the epoxy is curing works really well, to draw the inserts into perfect alignment. Of course, you don't want any epoxy drippage into the the internal threads of the inserts. So, in the case of the CAST toe, that means install the plate and studs and slide the toe pedestal in place while the epoxy cures.

While on this semi off-topic branch, it's worth noting that a that a perfectly vertical hole can be messed up during the tapping process. Keep the tap straight!

I was really paranoid about using a paper template to do my mount, so I fabricated a "jig" out of 1/4" thick aluminum. I clamped it in place and drilled all 4 toe holes at once. If I had introduced a bit of error into the process, I would have had a tight fit ;-)

... Thom

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Originally Posted by lucknau

Trying to visualize this. You install helicoils sized for inserts, install the inserts, then the posts, then attach the touring toes and when the epoxy cures all of the tolerances in all of the parts give you best odds of getting perfectly aligned posts?


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Yes thats correct. The skis had a previous mount that i tried to use buf 2 holes were a little off so the inserts within helicoils allowed me to move the holes enough to get them in the correct place. Throwing the tech toe on while tge epoxy cured insured the pedestals were straight

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Originally Posted by grinch

Yes thats correct. The skis had a previous mount that i tried to use buf 2 holes were a little off so the inserts within helicoils allowed me to move the holes enough to get them in the correct place. Throwing the tech toe on while tge epoxy cured insured the pedestals were straight

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Awesome "save", dude.

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Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un

I

I was really paranoid about using a paper template to do my mount, so I fabricated a "jig" out of 1/4" thick aluminum. I clamped it in place and drilled all 4 toe holes at once. If I had introduced a bit of error into the process, I would have had a tight fit ;-)

... Thom

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am I missing something or couldn't you have just used the actual binding, which I have done that a few times ?

I would guess the cast only come in the 18 DIN binding cuz its suposed to be no compromise/ bad ass

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

am I missing something or couldn't you have just used the actual binding, which I have done that a few times ?

I would guess the cast only come in the 18 DIN binding cuz its suposed to be no compromise/ bad ass

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You softies can use pivot 15's.
Using the binding can be a pita getting exact center of the hole. Im guessing Thom's jig holes were the same diameter as the bit

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back when i didnt have enough self respect to not telemark I used a G3 shim as the drill jig, rotate a drill bit by hand that was the exact size of the holes in the shim to make a divot, use the very small drill bit I had not yet lost or broken to drill the pilot hole and then drill with a 5/16th's

i am probably the antichrist but I never use the flacid paper templates

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Originally Posted by grinch

You softies can use pivot 15's.
Using the binding can be a pita getting exact center of the hole. Im guessing Thom's jig holes were the same diameter as the bit

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Yup, I drilled pilot holes (using the binding as a jig), then drilled holes using the 5/16" bit used for the inserts. It's probably good for only 3-4 mounts, since it's aluminum and not a steel drill bit bushing, but it'll outlive me ;-)

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

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i am probably the antichrist but I never use the flacid paper templates

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I have seen the light.

... Thom

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

back when i didnt have enough self respect to not telemark I used a G3 shim as the drill jig, rotate a drill bit by hand that was the exact size of the holes in the shim to make a divot, use the very small drill bit I had not yet lost or broken to drill the pilot hole and then drill with a 5/16th's

i am probably the antichrist but I never use the flacid paper templates

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Seems like that g3 riser might be easier to clamp to the ski than some toe pieces when you drill. Do you clamp toe pieces to the ski when you drill? I can see that process frustrating me

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Originally Posted by grinch

Seems like that g3 riser might be easier to clamp to the ski than some toe pieces when you drill. Do you clamp toe pieces to the ski when you drill? I can see that process frustrating me

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I drill one toe hole, screw it in tightly, insert a boot to align with the heel, mark/punch a second hole, remove the toe piece and drill. Rinse/repeat for the remaining two holes. I like to do them one at a time, in case I screw up on hole #2.

Curious how @XXX-er does it.

... Thom

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Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un

I drill one toe hole, screw it in tightly, insert a boot to align with the heel, mark/punch a second hole, remove the toe piece and drill. Rinse/repeat for the remaining two holes. I like to do them one at a time, in case I screw up on hole #2.

Curious how @XXX-er does it.

... Thom

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Ah yes. Very good

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well in that particular instance the holes in a G3 riser fit one of the drill bits in my set exactly, ( i didnt clamp it to the ski ) so I twirl the bit by hand in the riser hole to put a small divot in the top sheet and thats where I drill the pilot hole, follow up with the 5/16ths, but it was only telemark eh

IME pilot holes/ drilling one at a time/ go slow are really good practices if you havent got a jig and don't mount bindings all the time, for fixed heel i only drink coffee to stay accurate

for mounting telemark a beer/ glass of wine/ maybe a shot of fentanyl or almost anything will probably make it ski better

the big question is always where to put everything on the ski fore/ aft when I have used the binding itself as the template and they are always accurate ;)

as oposed to the more common practice of down loading a flacid piece of paper of dubious accuracy/ drilling all the holes and wondering wtf they done ?

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Originally Posted by mr_pretzel

The new toe I saw goes away from the 4 pedestals completely, just two larger knobs for the toes to slid into and off now.

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I'm assuming they'll still use the FKS mounting pattern for the plate but will use two knobs to hold the actual toe piece then

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Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un

I think you misinterpreted my point.

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Sorry for my belated reply, but you did too - that is misinterpret my point.

The Cast plate was primarily made to remedy the issue that pedestals/screws came loose after heavy use on wider skis. Source Not wear.

Second guessing / debating what outside-of-the-normal-procedure-method the person who mounted their Cast should have used is just pedantic. Representing it as being caused by wear is missing the memo.

Sure, you and x amount of person might not have needed a remedy, but some minority number felt like they did. (I am not one :) ) And that they did not have 100% perfect mount might have been the issue causing the problem, but stating "your mount must not have been 100%" does not really help their situations now does it. Cascade's solution does, if at a premium.

Sure, some people need glasses, I do not - let's leave it at that eh. Just because you do not need something does not mean it is not a solution to somebody's problem.

That was my point.

Let's agree to just talk past one another one trivial details and leave it at that eh ;)

New toe

Attachment 459229

Oooohhhhhh lala


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by mr_pretzel

New toe

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any news if this will make into production for the 23\24?

Can't remember if this has been addressed--if I can use my Alpine/ISO 5355 soles in a P15/18 with stock GW AFDs, why aren't CAST GW AFDs compatible with alpine soles? I'm planning to put a caliper on both to see what the differences are, but does anyone have insider knowledge?

Let me rephrase: Is anyone using alpine soles in the cast GW AFDs?

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Originally Posted by waveshello

Can't remember if this has been addressed--if I can use my Alpine/ISO 5355 soles in a P15/18 with stock GW AFDs, why aren't CAST GW AFDs compatible with alpine soles? I'm planning to put a caliper on both to see what the differences are, but does anyone have insider knowledge?

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It’s about where they place the AFD. On a pivot, the GW friction plate is further back than the alpine AFD to make it universally compatible. With CAST the AFD is in the same place for both, but the alpine AFD is flat and the GW AFD is slanted down, away from the binding to fit flat to the boot sole. If you put an alpine boot on the GW surface it doesn’t really fit because it puts uneven pressure on the AFD: a lot along the front edge and none at the back.

Here’s what my GW AFD looks like with my alpine boot:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...4ec0d6442f.jpg

Here’s what it looks like with a GW boot:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...9a80ff2c2a.jpg

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Originally Posted by lucknau

It’s about where they place the AFD. On a pivot, the GW friction plate is further back than the alpine AFD to make it universally compatible. With CAST the AFD is in the same place for both, but the alpine AFD is flat and the GW AFD is slanted down, away from the binding to fit flat to the boot sole. If you put an alpine boot on the GW surface it doesn’t really fit because it puts uneven pressure on the AFD: a lot along the front edge and none at the back.

Here’s what my GW AFD looks like with my alpine boot:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...4ec0d6442f.jpg

Here’s what it looks like with a GW boot:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...9a80ff2c2a.jpg

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Wow, thank you for the detailed write up and photos. Makes sense to me--I suppose if cast wanted to incorporate the longer AFD plate they would also need to change the dims on the toe shims.

Just fucking send it

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I mounted the cascade plates today in the existing inserts on my Rens. I got them to compensate for transitioning into shorter BSL a while ago. The pivot arms were basically flush, skied them a bunch and still lived to tell the tale.
Results are in and alpine toes go in smoothly, no problems. Tech toes are pita and managed to get them to fit only after the hammer came out. I'm thinkiing some detuning of the posts might be needed, otherwise they are basically unusable in field.
Attachment 473687

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Originally Posted by banzai

I mounted the cascade plates today in the existing inserts on my Rens. I got them to compensate for transitioning into shorter BSL a while ago. The pivot arms were basically flush, skied them a bunch and still lived to tell the tale.
Results are in and alpine toes go in smoothly, no problems. Tech toes are pita and managed to get them to fit only after the hammer came out. I'm thinkiing some detuning of the posts might be needed, otherwise they are basically unusable in field.
Attachment 473687

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I recommend fixing the tech toes, instead of the posts.

I have the purple toes, too. One was built within tolerance and fit the posts painlessly. One was a little thicker and didn’t. I didn’t want to introduce any play for the downhill toes, which fit perfectly, so I (gently) ground the the contact surfaces on the bad toe with a die grinder until it fit.

I’ve been using them for 4 or 5 years now, on three different pairs of skis, and they’re great. No more bruised hands, and no more having to “break in” the posts after installation.


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Fair point.

I have two other installations, where the tech toe is tight, but still works in field. Didn't want to risk the "broken in" installations, hence my reservations for grinding the toes. Might have to reconsider this. I've got another second ski kit (black posts) in the mail and will be doing a fresh install on another pair. Will see how this goes with the tech toes, do some detailed caliper work and decide how to proceed.

Meanwhile, if anyone can measure the thickness of the newish gold/raw/rasta tech toes, it will be highly appreciated.

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Originally Posted by banzai

Fair point.

I have two other installations, where the tech toe is tight, but still works in field. Didn't want to risk the "broken in" installations, hence my reservations for grinding the toes. Might have to reconsider this. I've got another second ski kit (black posts) in the mail and will be doing a fresh install on another pair. Will see how this goes with the tech toes, do some detailed caliper work and decide how to proceed.

Meanwhile, if anyone can measure the thickness of the newish gold/raw/rasta tech toes, it will be highly appreciated.

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I don't have digital calipers, but found a very even 6.5mm on both toes. (Analog calipers)

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