The 300g Touring Binding Thread

Looking to potentially retire my current setup (vision 108’s with voyager 12’s) to drop some weight with hopefully a minimal drop in ski performance.

Set on the new Atomic Backland 109 FR’s to drop around 70 grams on the ski front. Completely set on either the ski trab vario. 2 or gara toes (whatever minimizes ramp angle the most).

On the tech heel side, I want a heel that weighs ~100 grams or less, no heel gap (sits flush on the boot), cam style pins, good risers without having to spin the heel to switch between flat and high, and elastic compensation. All my research says it doesn’t exist. Is there anything in the works that at least comes close? Current idea is to run alpinist heels (no brakes) and then purchase one of those modified risers. Only thing alpinist is lacking is the cam style pins. Does ATK have an offering in the works that’s both light and has fire and aft elastic compensation?

Accept the heel gap and do the RT 10 evo heel.

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Originally Posted by carterhudson

Looking to potentially retire my current setup (vision 108’s with voyager 12’s) to drop some weight with hopefully a minimal drop in ski performance.

Set on the new Atomic Backland 109 FR’s to drop around 70 grams on the ski front. Completely set on either the ski trab vario. 2 or gara toes (whatever minimizes ramp angle the most).

On the tech heel side, I want a heel that weighs ~100 grams or less, no heel gap (sits flush on the boot), cam style pins, good risers without having to spin the heel to switch between flat and high, and elastic compensation. All my research says it doesn’t exist. Is there anything in the works that at least comes close? Current idea is to run alpinist heels (no brakes) and then purchase one of those modified risers. Only thing alpinist is lacking is the cam style pins. Does ATK have an offering in the works that’s both light and has fire and aft elastic compensation?

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G3 Zed is probably the lightest weight binding with all of those features. But you're asking for a fully featured heel and fully featured heels don't weigh 100g.

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Originally Posted by carterhudson

Set on the new Atomic Backland 109 FR’s to drop around 70 grams on the ski front. Completely set on either the ski trab vario. 2 or gara toes (whatever minimizes ramp angle the most).

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Vario2 and Gara Titan toes are functionally identical, except the Vario2 toes have a 4mm shim included, and you can buy that shim aftermarket

The haute route plus comes over here for next year.

I looked through the catalog again and I don't know which binding he's talking about. There's no 12 din cam heel on an r01 track that I'm seeing. There's the kuluar which switches to the r01 but that's a u-spring

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Originally Posted by Jason4

This sounds like an ATK Haute Route 12 Plus... I'm not sure why the plus version hasn't already come to America.

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^^^ the above was a response to you

Haute route plus is already here.

https://skimo.co/atk-haute-route-plus

There is also a good deal on them at Oliunud

https://www.oliunid.com/atk-haute-ro...-bindings.html

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Originally Posted by WhetherMan

The haute route plus comes over here for next year.

I looked through the catalog again and I don't know which binding he's talking about. There's no 12 din cam heel on an r01 track that I'm seeing. There's the kuluar which switches to the r01 but that's a u-spring

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I did not mean to create any confusion, but needed to keep things vague. It's basically a Kuluar, on the RO1 track, with two heel risers instead of one. Not a cam heel (which is a bummer) and I am not sure if it is in the catalog or not.

No worries, I interpreted your original comment as not needing to turn the heel between flat and riser, but I think you were just saying between the two riser heights. I got excited.

Anyone had a chance to try the new Salomon MTN / Atomic Backland summit? Toe piece is plastic, heel has 8mm of elasticity and they kept the same hole pattern. Heel risers look different, so hopefully improved?

My Trab Vario 2 heels are developing quite a bit of slack between the tower and the rail. They are perfectly flat mounted. Bummer, I had a feeling I should have installed the ATK universal spacer. Does anyone else have the same problem?

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Originally Posted by ASmileyFace

I did not mean to create any confusion, but needed to keep things vague. It's basically a Kuluar, on the RO1 track, with two heel risers instead of one. Not a cam heel (which is a bummer) and I am not sure if it is in the catalog or not.

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Seems like the haute route plus has more to offer than this?

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Originally Posted by Sklimber

Anyone had a chance to try the new Salomon MTN / Atomic Backland summit? Toe piece is plastic, heel has 8mm of elasticity and they kept the same hole pattern. Heel risers look different, so hopefully improved?

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Bump. Anyone have any experience with the new Salomon/Atomic Backland Summit?

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Originally Posted by whatsupdoc

Bump. Anyone have any experience with the new Salomon/Atomic Backland Summit?

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Just saw this. I've skied them for a season ie approx 20 days. They're good in the sense that they work and I barely notice them. Anything in particular you and sklimber both want to know?

Thanks LeeLau. I love my MTNs with the distinct exception of the risers loosening with time. Also to a lesser degree some mild slop between the heel piece and the track. Otherwise they’re simple, reliable, pretty light, and they have excellent toe piece retention. No prereleases.

And edited to add I’m a big fan of the Plum ski crampons.

Any issues with the floppy risers? Any durability concerns yet? Prereleases with the new composite toe?


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Originally Posted by whatsupdoc

And edited to add I’m a big fan of the Plum ski crampons.

Any issues with the floppy risers? Any durability concerns yet? Prereleases with the new composite toe?

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Toe looks fine. I checked them and rest of binding before sticking summer wax on the skis. Scratches from use but otherwise good

No floppy risers!

Nope on pre releases.

Really hard to say more. They're kind of reliably boring if you know what I mean?

Every year i check the toe spring strength.

Boot in, ski in vise with boot horizontal and i and weights till the arms open.

I tried a set because the springs weakened

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Originally Posted by rod9301

Every year i check the toe spring strength.

Boot in, ski in vise with boot horizontal and i and weights till the arms open.

I tried a set because the springs weakened

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I retired a set, not tried it

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Originally Posted by LeeLau

Toe looks fine. I checked them and rest of binding before sticking summer wax on the skis. Scratches from use but otherwise good

No floppy risers!

Nope on pre releases.

Really hard to say more. They're kind of reliably boring if you know what I mean?

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Reliably boring sounds like a good thing. Thanks.


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Part of me wonders if that's what, along with a host of other more sinister evils, late stage capitalism has delivered. I mean, Christ, who would have thought marker would also offer a boring, reliable binding.

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Originally Posted by NWFlow

Part of me wonders if that's what, along with a host of other more sinister evils, late stage capitalism has delivered. I mean, Christ, who would have thought marker would also offer a boring, reliable binding.

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Fwiw. I've also got the Alpinist. It too is reliably boring. Ditto the Xenic. And for heavier a Shift and Tecton.

Nothing to report on the 300g bindings fronts. Although as a certified gearwhore am intrigued by ATK

Wtf are these? Radical toes and some mystery heels Attachment 500834

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Originally Posted by Island Bay

Wtf are these? ...

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Hoji heels with hoji holes

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Originally Posted by Island Bay

Wtf are these? Radical toes and some mystery heels Attachment 500834

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Looks like newer aluminum Radical toes, a stomp pad made from new Radical brakes, and an old Low-Tech heel without a high riser. The heels are a very simple reliable design if a bit heavy by todays standards.

Isn’t Hoji buddies with Fritz Barthel? Maybe he got them direct from Fritz.

https://wildsnow.com/backcountry-ski...d-gen-binding/

Attachment 500840


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Bingo! I have learnt something this morning.

Thank you sts

I wish every touring binding on the market came without high risers. Might help people from setting stupid skin tracks.

Sometimes you need them

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Originally Posted by altacoup

I wish every touring binding on the market came without high risers. Might help people from setting stupid skin tracks.

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Yep!

^^Bravo!! Good sleuthing!!


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Seriously. Hoji spends most of his time touring. He obviously doesn’t see the need for a high riser because from experience he knows how to set a proper skin track. If you watch videos of him skinning he is usually in flat mode. Skin tracks set in flat mode are reusable, where as tracks set in the high setting get slippery with a bunch of traffic. Plus you’re actually faster in a flatter track. Living in the wasatch I’m so sick of the stupid tracks set here. It’s only gotten worse with the proliferation of skimo dorks tracking their tours on strava. I wish Hoji would be more vocal about seeing proper tracks as I feel like people might listen to him.

I'm sure he'd have a thing or two to say about skin tracks.

I found that Blister interview really interesting because Hoji is such an intense thinker and character - and obviously back it all up with outstanding skiing.

Btw, what is the modern day version of that Dynafit Low Tech heel? Something that keeps going and won't break.

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Originally Posted by Island Bay

Btw, what is the modern day version of that Dynafit Low Tech heel? Something that keeps going and won't break.

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Dynafit Speed Turn
Plum Guide

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Originally Posted by rod9301

Sometimes you need them

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In general I'm not a high riser user, but I use them when skinning in deep, dense snow. It helps keep your tips up and reduces the snow build up on your skis.

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Originally Posted by altacoup

Skin tracks set in flat mode are reusable, where as tracks set in the high setting get slippery with a bunch of traffic. Plus you’re actually faster in a flatter track. Living in the wasatch I’m so sick of the stupid tracks set here. It’s only gotten worse with the proliferation of skimo dorks tracking their tours on strava. I wish Hoji would be more vocal about seeing proper tracks as I feel like people might listen to him.

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On the other hand if everywhere had a perfect skin track or everyone in the backcountry was super dialed, things would get skied out much faster and finding untracked stashes would be harder. One of my favorite aspects of touring is how much it rewards experience and technique.

Stoke for making the skin track you want on 300g bindings. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...2e6f00fd8d.jpg

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Originally Posted by Island Bay

Btw, what is the modern day version of that Dynafit Low Tech heel? Something that keeps going and won't break.

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Every binding has rare failures. It's hard to know the denominator as we just see the occasional failures posted online. Certainly there are more Dynafit brand bindings out there in the field than other brands therefore increasing the denominator compared to the cottage brands. We would expect a larger numerator of failures in that setting.

Toes: Dynafit Radical toes are really durable and ski well. They are also really easy to get into because of the "power towers." The original Radical toe has steel toe wings and weighs the same as a 5 hole steel toe (the old 5 hole toes are also really durable and I still ski them a lot). Newer Radical toes like in the Hoji picture above have moved to aluminum toe wings and save some weight (~30g). I only have ~100k vert of skiing on the aluminum toe wings but I like them; for my weight (~80kg) I don't foresee any durability issues but that is conjecture so far.

Heels: The Low Tech heel I pictured above has a U spring for vertical release and adjustable lateral release. Some Dynafit bindings that use a similar system are the TLT Speed, Blacklight, and the Speed Superlite 2.0. There are a lot of good heels in 2024 that use other systems too. People on this forum have reported failures presenting to shops with broken SSL 2.0 heels, but my experience is that they are as or more durable than any other heel.
Things I like about the SSL 2.0 heel:
-light weight
-easy to turn at transitions (when heels are too hard to turn [Dynafit TLT Speed!] I end up ripping holes in my liner gloves that I wear while skinning)
-only 2 height modes (low and medium, no really high riser). For my biomechanics and boot choice, it always works great and I'm not left wanting. Some people need a true flat mode but I don't.
-sealed/internal lateral release mechanism unlike i.e. ATK Trofeos. In spring conditions they don't get gunked up with pine needles and detritus from the snow surface
-low stack height, no need to shim toes
-adjustable lateral release I find helpful. I just keep turning up until I don't spin out on jump turns. I've had problems with race heels and spinning out.
-there are other downsides like no official flat mode (can sometimes leave it turned 90deg for flat, will often spin back after a while, B&D makes a add-on for this), no BSL adjustment without a plate (I use B&D plates), plastic heel housing is a theoretical concern for aging plastic, etc.

But to summarize a short answer to your question my vote is Speed Radical toes (steel or aluminum) and SSL 2.0 heels. AKA the SuperRadical.

saw the ATK RT 11 EVO today at a clinic - that was the binding they were the most proud of

website says 325 grams but the sheet they gave me today says 295 grams


toe piece has adjustable lateral release

I don’t have a lot of experience with their bindings but they look really great

I like that they are repairable

https://atkbindings.com/en-us/produc...t&_ss=e&_v=1.0

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Originally Posted by ~mikey b

saw the ATK RT 11 EVO today at a clinic - that was the binding they were the most proud of

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I have the RT10 Evo and they are excellent binders. I put the free ride spacer on mine and it made a big difference in edge hold. They just work, metal where it counts, and all parts seem well engineered, but not over engineered. I would definitely buy another pair.

Picked up a pair of Zero G 85's off another mag with the intent to use them for basically fitness skinning the resort and local beer league skimo races (turns out my ravens are pretty sketchy bombing hardpack in the dark....) Need some lightish clamps.

I'm ATK-curious and thinking about the Crest 10, but the RT evo looks like it could be good too. Kind of hard to tell the difference between the RT11 and the 2025 Crest 10 now that the Crest 10 has magnetic risers and auto-release brakes.

Desired parameters are: brakes, bsl adjustment, lean more towards ski performance and safety than total lightweight uphill performance. Alpine DIN for me is usually happy around an 8-8.5.

Any thoughts?