To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

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Originally Posted by ::: :::

My FIL's friend, Milt, died yesterday. He was 86.
Milt had been vaxed but, unknown to him, had been hanging out with unvaxed family members.
He subsequently spent time with my FIL. My FIL & MIL are both vaxed & 80+yo.
Milt got some symptoms that concerned him. He tried to get tested on Monday a week ago & got turned away from 3 urgent cares who said he didn't meet the criteria to get tested (wtf for 86yo???). Last Wednesday he went to the ER with more severe symptoms and got admitted. He passed away yesterday.
We are very worried for my FIL who has had respiratory issues through the last year unrelated to covid, but he seems to be symptom free for the moment. Mrs ::: ::: is a little weirded out to say the least and is pretty pissed at the selfish fucksticks who can't be bothered to do very basic things to protect themselves and loved ones and community.

sad & pissed & worried

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Sorry to hear about this. I hope your in-laws make it through without more harm.

the story about testing is SO frustrating. Where I live, we're having a fun spike, where contact tracing is shit, test positivity is the second highest in the state, case rates are 4th highest, but you can still get tested. There are delays in getting appointments and many of the typical testing locations, which sucks, and only the PCR tests are available with a 3-day lag in results, which also sucks, but people are not getting turned away due to a criteria.

My friend in Tallahassee is able to quickly test often and frequently. it's a 10-15 minute drop-in process, with both a rapid test and a PCR test. He gets results from the rapid test less than 30 minutes later via text message. He and his wife (who is a HCW at several hospitals) get tested frequently as a result of potential exposures or when they have any symptoms. It sounds like a pretty dialed system that unfortunately is not being used enough by the larger population. That family have 2 young kids, one in preschool and one in elementary school. They do not know WTF they are going to do about this school year.....

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Originally Posted by mcphee

he denied it for years. admonished metoo. only until "cancel culture" got him and he lost deals, tours, and fans did he admit what he did. he doesn't deserve sympathy.

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I did not know that.

In light of this new information, I will change my previous point of view to better align with these newly discovered (to me) facts. Does this make me a flip-flopper like Fauci?

20% of all currently hospitalized COVID patients in the USA are in Florida... congrats Desantis!

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Originally Posted by MontuckyFried

So, we keep hearing about the fact that like 99% of the people in ICUs these days are those who have not received the vaccine. SOOOOOO, perhaps instead of trying to get in the way, maybe, just maybe, step aside for a bit and let that wildfire burn its way through that forest full of deadfall.

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Sure except:

1. Hospitals don't have the capacity which makes for bad outcomes for non-COVID people.

2. Taxpayers are gonna be on the hook for those hospitalizations at about 60-80K ea.

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Originally Posted by paulster2626

I did not know that.

In light of this new information, I will change my previous point of view to better align with these newly discovered (to me) facts. Does this make me a flip-flopper like Fauci?

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sarcasm, I hope, or u need to be edjumicated on what flip flopping is vs keeping current with science and data

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Originally Posted by Summit

Sure except:

1. Hospitals don't have the capacity which makes for bad outcomes for non-COVID people.

2. Taxpayers are gonna be on the hook for those hospitalizations at about 60-80K ea.

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Costs vs benefits. Short term vs long term. :FIREdevil

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSfW9twwJAI

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Originally Posted by MontuckyFried

Costs vs benefits. Short term vs long term. :FIREdevil

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSfW9twwJAI

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Very low cost, huge benefit: VACCINATE
Very low cost, moderate benefit: MASKS

That's the plan to keep hospitals running. We want to avoid this:

Huge Cost, Large Benefit: Restrictions and Shutdowns

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Originally Posted by mcphee

No, it's a funny bit. Does it work as an example of how we should handle a pandemic just because you're a big baby who won't take his medicine? No, you absolute dipshit.

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Some comedy isn't for everybody, but I'll put in my two cents: I too agree that the nut allergy bit is funny. A key component of Louis CK's humor has always involved him exploring the boundary between him thinking of himself as a reasonable regular guy and acknowledging his creepier instincts, and the allergy clip is a pretty clear example of that. (As for CK personally, he made his bed and needs to lie in it, and I'm fine that these days he's more the butt of other comics' jokes than the top comic that he used to be; but the fact remains that he's done some great comedy.)

Montucky's attempt to extend CK's purposely ironic take on allergens, to vaccinations for a disease that the entire population remains vulnerable to (to varying degrees), let's put this nicely, doesn't really work though.

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Originally Posted by MontuckyFried

Costs vs benefits. Short term vs long term. :FIREdevil

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSfW9twwJAI

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Maybe hospitals should demand to see someone's vaccination card before admitting them for any COVID symptoms?

No vax card, no service...

:fmicon:

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Originally Posted by mtuhockey33

the guy already had Covid, said it wasn’t bad and he’d rather take his chances with natural immunity and getting it again vs taking the vaccine and having an unfortunate outcome. Kind of seems like the same stance I have on it ����♂️

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As long as you're not arguing other people shouldn't get vaccinated then perhaps your stance is defensible. I disagree with it in general though because the preponderance of evidence does say the previously infected have a much better immune response with one dose than the uninfected have with two doses who in turn have a better response than the previously infected. Especially compared with people who only experienced mild Covid cases with no dose.

Another thing worth considering is how vaccine effectiveness (VE) is calculated. It's essentially the risk ratio or fraction among a vaccinated group over the risk among an unvaccinated group. If the unvaccinated population acquires more natural immunity (however imperfect) then ironically that can make it look like the vaccines are less effective than they really are.

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Originally Posted by MultiVerse

Another thing worth considering is how vaccine effectiveness (VE) is calculated. It's essentially the risk ratio or fraction among a vaccinated group over the risk among an unvaccinated group. If the unvaccinated population acquires more natural immunity (however imperfect) then ironically that can make it look like the vaccines are less effective than they really are.

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Prospective studies (properly designed) account for this by looking at seroprevalence. It is a counfounder for retrospective studies.

Yeah, ideally we'd see RCTs that exclude based on positive PCR/Ab test so we can determine Delta VE not relative to the whole population but only to those not previously infected. So far all the Delta numbers are based on in the wild effectiveness.

Probably already mentioned, if not…
Insurance companies, higher or lower deductibles would be a strong arm.

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Originally Posted by Meconium

Probably already mentioned, if not…
Insurance companies, higher or lower deductibles would be a strong arm.

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That would happen as soon as FedGov stops paying for 100% of the COVID care.

Love your username.

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Originally Posted by Meconium

Probably already mentioned, if not…
Insurance companies, higher or lower deductibles would be a strong arm.

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Thought I read kaiser is doing just that with it's insured. Based and under 12 get covered, non vaxxed need a vent? Get out the checkbook

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using TGR Forums mobile app

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

They’ve been in the top five for deaths per 100k 7 day average for a couple weeks now. It’s not static. You know that. They hit their high in hospitalization this week , for the entire pandemic. People aren’t dying as much because we’re much better at treating them. That doesn’t mean they’re not gravely ill. You should ask for a tour of a hospital ED and Covid ICU.

Middle of the pack! REEE! That’s your language I know you can understand


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

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Sweden is down to almost zero deaths per day for the last month. Thus, Sweden handled COVID better than just about everywhere. Is that how this works?

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Originally Posted by tuco

Bring 20 yr statistics, not 1 from a summer ALSO affected by Covid.
So no, not a coincidence

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Hold on while I get my 20 year COVID data....

Sweden has a per capita death rate almost 10x greater than that of its neighbor Norway. To say they made the correct call on how to handle the COVID-19 pandemic is to be willfully ignorant.

In case anyone was wondering where the right wing was going with its campaign to discourage their own flock from taking a safe vaccine that prevents a deadly disease, the next phase of their long con is starting to be rolled out. Fox's Jeanine Pirro (who months ago announced "I’m not going to allow them to do that [give vaccination] to me") now says:

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The Biden administration failed at their effort to get us vaccinated by July 4th. And now we have to pay the price.

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you want to mask us because you clearly failed in your effort to get us vaccinated

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Originally Posted by ron johnson

Hold on while I get my 20 year COVID data....

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Waiting w/ bated breath(in other words, it's zactly as I thought, you got nothin. In reality, you just proved my point that this is not normal flu season)

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Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush

Sweden has a per capita death rate almost 10x greater than that of its neighbor Norway. To say they made the correct call on how to handle the COVID-19 pandemic is to be willfully ignorant.

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Thanks for proving my point.

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Originally Posted by Skidog

Thought I read kaiser is doing just that with it's insured. Based and under 12 get covered, non vaxxed need a vent? Get out the checkbook

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using TGR Forums mobile app

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Do you have a source. Haven't heard of that as a Norcal member. They are requiring employees to be vaccinated. The majority of KP members are through group plans, which wouldn't be affected. Under the ACA age and smoking are the only factors insurers can charge a higher rate for. I don't know how that might apply to deductibles and copays.

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Originally Posted by Carl_Mega

I love drummers and Ginger - seriously, the ability to use all your appendages with rhythmic independence is amazing - but the ribbing must go on.

q: What did the drummer say to the band leader?
a: Do you want me to play too fast or too slow?

To add: everyone of these jokes were told to me by drummers

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Can we get back to mocking people truly deserving of mockery? (Of course I am talking about bass players.)

But if you're a musician or even just a music fan you probably know the huge difference a drummer can make. An average drummer vs. a really good one can transform a band. When I was a teenager my father (very gifted musical guy--could play anything) told me that a drummer could be the most important band member after I told him I thought the drummer never made much difference. Didn't 'get it' until years later.

Anyway, probably better not to take vax advice from them (unless they're really good at playing 7/4 with lots of triplets all over the place).

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Originally Posted by Dexter Rutecki

Can we get back to mocking people truly deserving of mockery? (Of course I am talking about bass players.)

But if you're a musician or even just a music fan you probably know the huge difference a drummer can make. An average drummer vs. a really good one can transform a band. When I was a teenager my father (very gifted musical guy--could play anything) told me that a drummer could be the most important band member after I told him I thought the drummer never made much difference. Didn't 'get it' until years later.

Anyway, probably better not to take vax advice from them (unless they're really good at playing 7/4 with lots of triplets all over the place).

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So Danny Carey in other words…….

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Originally Posted by MontuckyFried

Costs vs benefits. Short term vs long term. :FIREdevil

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSfW9twwJAI

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Hey asshole. You're joking about people who are dying. Do you realize that?

You're also joking about overburdening a strained healthcare system, and end-costs that affect your very own libertardian ass.

Do you think your cute little reference to a pop culture flash-in-the-pan song makes you look kewl?

Fucking Disgusting.